What game would you remake, and how?

[Blake]

Starfox 64 with the same voice acting but with the vulgar words that Nintendo would have included if they weren't aiming for the everyone rating.

"This guy is really starting to piss me off!"

"What the hell?!"

"Cocky little f**ks!"


Although nothing beats the classic line:

"Step on the gas! Step on the- NO, HIT THE BRAKES!!"

[Cosmonautical]

I would give Slippy his original voice, if I were remaking SF64, instead of the eunich's one he ended up with.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

Well, I think just about everything in the game including the graphics could be toggle-able if they'd just upscale the resolution and keep it 2D. The funny thing about the "anime" 3D style using cel shading - only one studio has ever actually done it well, and that's Factor 5 in conjunction with the art direction of Studio Ghibli. The rest have been very haphazard in their quality., to be frank.

From what I have read, South Park: The Game looks and sounds just like an episode of South Park, plus it retains the essence of South Park, making it one of the games I must play. Plus you named that one RPG that looks like "Howl's Moving Castle." There is a short Chrono Trigger anime one-shot and cutscenes that they could use to understand what the game would look like. I can see it working, but I suppose technical limitations could make it tough. I'm sure that they could work around it in time though.

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

Also, on the subject of translation, which ML brought up, there are certain things that cannot be translated without interrupting the story for cultural exposition. You can explain a fable that is being referenced by a Manga in the liner notes, for instance, but in a game it must interrupt the game's narration to actually be explained. Interpretive translation is what makes games like Chrono Trigger and Earthbound work so well, because they draw parallels to concepts with which we as Westerners are familiar.

I think I said transition, or at least I meant to. I'd be as faithful as possible to the original American release. Where the DS remake messed up was changing things; adding is harmless, given the ability to toggle the new content. For example, I didn't need to get the new ending or utilize the new gimmicky control scheme, but I did have to endure the new translation, which I do not prefer to the original. I still wouldn't mind its existence if I could switch it on or off.

[Cosmonautical]

^ The animation studio that made Howl's Moving Castle is Studio Ghibli, who worked on that game. They're widely regarded as the best animation studio in Japan, like Disney was in the US. It's not traditional 3D, and instead is handled in a way comparable to traditional anime film.

SouthPark being handled closely by the creators isn't exactly exemplary, as the show's animation is crude enough to actually allow a lot of room for error in game production. Beside that, there's actually source material that they were by majority recreating.

The levels and areas that Chrono Trigger possesses were made to work for a 2 progression, not for a 3D setting. In a 3D setting, you have to ask yourself "what is the player going to see when they turn left" and determine how best to use that space. It doesn't really exist in the original game, so you would be spending 90% of your project time building something completely new or you'd be doing it wrong.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

The old South Park was animated rather crudely, but it looks smooth, and stylish now. In fact, Matt and Trey continue to utilize the graphical style by choice now. Regardless of why, South Park on PS3 emulates the show well, and I don't see why half a decade down the line for a more powerful system, by more experienced developers, a solution couldn't be reached to most technical problems in making a 3D CT.

For one thing, the angles you're talking about aren't necessary to duplicate perfectly. In fact, as with most large undertakings of the time, developers were constrained by limited technology. What I am saying is that the original P.O.V could be changed for more dynamic ones, which likely would have already existed if possible. If anything, the experience becomes truer to the original ideas.

Perfect examples exist within the anime cut-scenes. The camera shots are doing things that the game couldn't back then, most notably in the scene with Frog carving forth a path. As developers, we'd just have to make the changes that are necessary in keeping with that style.

Aside from the overworld, most of the game would have a simple transition, as it simulates a 3D field already. Scale of the characters and things would need to be changed, mostly.

I just remembered that a group remade scenes of CT a while back in 3D. It's on YouTube. Check that out, and what they did just as fans years ago.

[Cosmonautical]

The original ideas for a game are just ideas, IRHP. They're not the game you played and love. If you want a new game made from the source concept, just say so, but it's never going to be the same if you try to take a step in a diferent direction rather than upscale the material that's present. The world itself does not simulate 3D space at all, all of the ground is flat and represents impossible perspective. As a player, you witness events and scenery that would not be visible from the characters' perspective, especially if converted to a 3D world scape.

Have you ever played a game remake that was updated from 2D to 3D gameplay by actual professionals? They don't exist. There are too many good reasons not to do that.

[Marilink]

IRHP, there's a reason that Nintendo has never re-made LttP in 3D. If you look at any of the dungeons or overworld maps in LttP, you realize that, from Link's perspective, there is no possible way he could see a lot of the things that the player sees from the top-down. The perspective shift is impossible and would make the game impossible.

The same goes for Chrono Trigger. There are too many things in the game that would be impossible to see from the character perspective. The only way it would really work would be to do pseudo-3D like they did for the FFIII re-make; but that would really make a lot of the artwork and character design lose its original flair.

[Bomby]

I would remake OoT, but change all of the faces to look like Henry Tang. [/obscurememe]

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

The original ideas for a game are just ideas, IRHP. They're not the game you played and love. If you want a new game made from the source concept, just say so, but it's never going to be the same if you try to take a step in a diferent direction rather than upscale the material that's present.

It wouldn't be a new game simply because of changes in camera angles. Whether or not I see a particular rock from a particular means little to me. Maybe you guys are more dedicated than even I am if rescaling and repositioning things is going to bug you.

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

The world itself does not simulate 3D space at all.

So when I circle a pillar, coming into and out of view as I run [/i]around[i] it, this is not the developers attemting to simulate 3D behavior in a 2D space?

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

Have you ever played a game remake that was updated from 2D to 3D gameplay by actual professionals? They don't exist.

Square is or was supposedly working on a FF7 remake for PS3. Although some aspects are 3D, like the character models, some backgrounds are flat, pre-rendered 2D images, like in early Resident Evil games. Do you think that they're going to retain the 2D aspects in a remake? No way. So a remake of CT would probably recieve a similar treatment, although Square did express technical concerns with remaking FF7, so it'd be even harder with CT, I assume.

Originally Posted by DJ Blue J

IRHP, there's a reason that Nintendo has never re-made LttP in 3D. If you look at any of the dungeons or overworld maps in LttP, you realize that, from Link's perspective, there is no possible way he could see a lot of the things that the player sees from the top-down. The perspective shift is impossible and would make the game impossible.

The same goes for Chrono Trigger. There are too many things in the game that would be impossible to see from the character perspective. The only way it would really work would be to do pseudo-3D like they did for the FFIII re-make; but that would really make a lot of the artwork and character design lose its original flair.

Games have made the transition from 3D to 2D on several occasions, which leads me to believe that process is easier than the other way around, but it doesn't seem impossible unless you're not willing to bend at all.

There's always a risk of something losing its original flair in any graphical transition. FF4 for DS lost its spark IMO. It is a worthwhile risk.

At the very least, I would like orchestral music, improved sound quality, a SF2HDR-esque graphical update, modernized aspects of certain gameplay elements, and other such things. It would feel less inspired than a full remake, but it would be more likely.

[Cosmonautical]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

So when I circle a pillar, coming into and out of view as I run [/i]around[i] it, this is not the developers attemting to simulate 3D behavior in a 2D space?

You're not actually thinking about this. Yes, they did some minor layer tricks to simulate occlusion. There is no Z axis, however. The ground on top of a mountain? Flat. The ground at the bottom of the mountain? Usually the same ground, also flat. You can walk up the mountain on a flat plane with no incline. The perspective is an impossibility. They did not create a 3D game and adapt it to 2D, they created a 2D system with a close enough resemblance to 3D space and then took every advantage of every contradiction available.

I'm an artist, IRHP. When I look at this, there are literally no angle guides. This is like how in a PC Graphical Adventure game, like Monkey Island, everything is conveniently only facing the screen.

Square is or was supposedly working on a FF7 remake for PS3. Although some aspects are 3D, like the character models, some backgrounds are flat, pre-rendered 2D images, like in early Resident Evil games. Do you think that they're going to retain the 2D aspects in a remake? No way. So a remake of CT would probably recieve a similar treatment, although Square did express technical concerns with remaking FF7, so it'd be even harder with CT, I assume.

FF7 has so far not had a remake made or planned. The source material of FF7 was generated entirely in 3D with 3D graphics engines. If a remake were made, there is no guarantee that any camera angles would be changed.

Games have made the transition from 3D to 2D on several occasions, which leads me to believe that process is easier than the other way around, but it doesn't seem impossible unless you're not willing to bend at all.

To appeal to die-hard fans, of course you have to stay close to the source material. The background design and art accounts for something like 70% of the game.


By the way, I appreciate your taking the time to talk about this. It's a fascinating subject, and I don't want you to think that I'm saying you're "wrong" so much as I would not consider the end result a remake in the traditional sense. I'm sure your game would be worth playing, and if possible perhaps a fantastic addition to the series.

[Link 456]

One of my favorite arcade driving games that I'd like to see again is Crazy Taxi. When it came out on the Xbox LIVE Marketplace, it was a lot of fun, but I would like to see a second Crazi Taxi, with some new maps that resemble famous landmarks, some new cabbies as well as the old original 4, possibly a cab customation and a NEW ROCKIN' SOUNDTRACK AWRIGHT

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

You're not actually thinking about this. Yes, they did some minor layer tricks to simulate occlusion. There is no Z axis, however. The ground on top of a mountain? Flat. The ground at the bottom of the mountain? Usually the same ground, also flat. You can walk up the mountain on a flat plane with no incline. The perspective is an impossibility. They did not create a 3D game and adapt it to 2D, they created a 2D system with a close enough resemblance to 3D space and then took every advantage of every contradiction available.

But the idea was conceived in 3D. Nobody thinks up a grand adventure in 2D, they just adapted it to 2D. I hope you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

I'm an artist, IRHP. When I look at this, there are literally no angle guides. This is like how in a PC Graphical Adventure game, like Monkey Island, everything is conveniently only facing the screen.

Making a 2D game transition into 3D doesn't always work. Sometimes the idea is meant to be 2D.

It varies by game, too. Look at Tetris for Virtual Boy. It didn't suck because it was made in 3D but because it made a poor transition into 3D. I bet a 3D Tetris would work well, with today's technology.

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

FF7 has so far not had a remake made or planned. The source material of FF7 was generated entirely in 3D with 3D graphics engines. If a remake were made, there is no guarantee that any camera angles would be changed.

I have no citations ATM, but IIRC, there were plans. And of course, there are never any guarantees until the product is complete, but one may assume.

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

To appeal to die-hard fans, of course you have to stay close to the source material. The background design and art accounts for something like 70% of the game.

That's what we call the process of reimagining something. Obviously if I make a 3D game into a 2D game, there are things you won't see anymore, at least not the way you did before. It is an inevitability which must be accepted.

Originally Posted by Cosmonautical

By the way, I appreciate your taking the time to talk about this. It's a fascinating subject, and I don't want you to think that I'm saying you're "wrong" so much as I would not consider the end result a remake in the traditional sense. I'm sure your game would be worth playing, and if possible perhaps a fantastic addition to the series.

I am happy we're conversing, not just debating as usual. I am happy you are taking the time to critique my ideas. =]

[Cosmonautical]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

But the idea was conceived in 3D. Nobody thinks up a grand adventure in 2D, they just adapted it to 2D. I hope you know what I mean.

Honestly, no. If I'm going to plan a game in 2D with filler graphics and make it look 3D, I have to design the levels as flat overhead scenarios and then convert them to a more 3D appearance with the art assets as they are available. If the world concepts were truly 3 dimensional, you would see a lot more use of true vertical space, and there would be a lot of wasted ideas.

Making a 2D game transition into 3D doesn't always work. Sometimes the idea is meant to be 2D.

Yeah, that's what I mean, though. Building a 2D game in true 3D requires more than art assets, it requires entirely new design and repositioning of properties to the extent that you're not remaking something that exists, you're building content for empty worldspace.

It varies by game, too. Look at Tetris for Virtual Boy. It didn't suck because it was made in 3D but because it made a poor transition into 3D. I bet a 3D Tetris would work well, with today's technology.

3D Tetris was fine to play in 3D. My brother and I owned it and had fun with it. Tetris is not a deep game, however, and it was not a satisfying property. Designing a top-down 3D tetris game would have just as many problems, now. It would require a 3D viewing field with true depth like the Virtual Boy had (3D tvs use something like 30-50% depth) and it would absolutely not be able to work any better than the mechanisms in the Virtual Boy. It was designed around a flawed concept, but that's about it for that one. It sounds more like you heard about the game from another AVGN type.

I have no citations ATM, but IIRC, there were plans. And of course, there are never any guarantees until the product is complete, but one may assume.

There were a lot of media bodies scrounging for news about one, but Square has said that inquiries into the subject concluded that a conversion of the FF7 properties into HD resolution and detail would require 4 times the length in development cycle of FF13. If it were made and did not at least recoup the massive losses incurred in development, it would crash the company. This is a game that was built at lower than VGA resolution, with unique 3D pre-rendered assets for every screen. There was practically no texturing in the game.

That's what we call the process of reimagining something. Obviously if I make a 3D game into a 2D game, there are things you won't see anymore, at least not the way you did before. It is an inevitability which must be accepted.

You're talking about a big compromise. Compromise in a remake will always upset the core fans of a series, which is something you should consider. People with that sort of attitude are continually generating negative publicity until others refuse to work with them.

If you can remake the game in its entirety, you have a good idea. If it requires some finagling, you're better off building a game that intersects with the one you like. The Chrono Trigger franchise is versatile in regards to time travel.

[lamarwisneski]

Hello Cosmo ,

I would love to see Resident Evil 2 re-made. If they were to re-make RE2, I wouldn't like to see added content, extra features, or any extras for that matter. In my opinion, they tend to ruin a lot of games when they polish them up and add extra content into the game. If they were to keep the game exactly the way it is, with the exception of the graphics and sounds it would be awesome to experience this already great game, again!

[LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT]

i want a mother****ing toejam and earl remake.


edit; or Tomba!

[Sim Kid]

Actually how about Tales of Legendia?

I think the game would have been better received if it came out earlier than it did - after it came out, the LMBS had been more than just the 2D plane, before there was the pseudo-3D Rebirth and Symphonia, with the Free-run Abyss just around the corner. (Both here and there!) It was a bit of a step-back because the battle system was essentially a 2.5D Eternia's (With throws) and there were no mystic artes, either.

What I would do:

-Make the graphics resemble the artstyle a little better.
The art for the game is beautiful, you can tell the artist who did Final FAntasy Unlimited and Samurai Champloo worked on it. So make it resemble their artstyle a bit more.

-Give it a new LMBS
We've been so spoiled by Abyss&Vesperia. Destiny and Hearts at least felt fresh given the emphasis on aerial combat and how they used different TP systems. We're pretty much expecting free-run, or at leat something like the shifting like in Graces. So I think it could work out,

-Buff magic
MAgic in that game is only really good for healing, buffing&debuffing, trapping them in combos, and hitting elemental weaknesses. It's really the Iron Erens (Senel, Chloe, Moses, and Jay) carrying the team through. Heck, you could make Norma deal more damage blowing bubbles out of her straw with the extreme symbol than actually using her spells. I think that's a bit counter-intuitive. So yeah, make it so magic is more useful for dealing damage, especially for Grune since she doesn't get the utility of healing or buff magic, and relying on being able to knock enemies down for Senel to throw them or throwing them into the air.

-Add Mystic Artes
Pretty minor one anyways, but that was a complaint about it in Japan, evidently.

-Voice the character quests
Seriously, that's half the game. >.<;

-Cut down on the backtracking in the Character Quests
While it does make sense given that the game is pretty much centered completely around The Legacy, it does get a bit annoying.

-Buff Shirley
Shirley lags behind the other party members because
a) Just about all her attacks are shared with Will, Grune, or Norma.
b) By the time she finally joins, the game's about 50% done. There's nothing wrong with that, but she has only a handful of attacks. Until very VERY late in the game she just continuously lags behind because the other mages can do anything she can and more. An alternative thing would be to make her more of a hybrid because she can combo.

-Add some support skills so we can customize the characters a bit more.

-More Skits
There are very few skits in Tales of Legendia. You could play through the entire game without knowing half of them are even there given how rare they are. The oens they do have are kind of boring compared to the skits in other games too.

[1-up Salesman]

Some HD remakes of the original Sonic games with new animated graphics (like Wario Land: Shake! but, perhaps, more shaded and such).

Some HD remakes of the Dragon Ball Z Budokai and Budokai Tenkaichi games would be nice.