Question about NES colors - VGF

DRW · 04-19-2008, 08:45 PM

The following question is only for the persons who live in a country where NTSC (and not PAL) is used (for example the USA):
If you play "Super Mario Bros." in front of a TV screen (no emulation, I'm talking about a real NES and a real TV), how does the game look like? Does it more resemble the upper image or the lower image?

**L007 is Undecided** · 04-19-2008, 08:54 PM

If I remember, I always got the top image. I'm talking about my old NES, not from the Virtual Console.

Mikhail Gorbachev · 04-19-2008, 09:31 PM

From my memory, since my NES hasn't worked for years, it's the top one.

***Ace Mercury*** · 04-19-2008, 10:33 PM

Depends on how crappy your television is, and whether or not someone's been messing around with the tint.

GRENTLEMEN · 04-20-2008, 04:22 AM

The NES' raw display is somewhere in between. The lower one is a little too washed out, and the upper one's colors are a little too bold. Similarily, the sky was always a little more purplish like the bottom, but not quite so much.

No one's ever really been able to get it right in emulation, IMO.

Are those two shots from the default palettes in Nestopia?

I live in Australia, but I'm from the US, btw. I still have all of my NTSC systems.

DarkZero · 04-20-2008, 06:54 AM

I can safely say that it looks most like the top image.

DRW · 04-20-2008, 07:55 AM

Thank you for your answers. So, it seems like the colors of PAL and of NTSC don't differ at all because the PAL NES colors also look more like the upper image.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSARS DOUBLE SARS

Are those two shots from the default palettes in Nestopia?

No, these are the palettes of FCE Ultra. I asked the question because the lower colors were called "NTSC Color Emulation", but the upper version was the default palette that appears when you don't change anything. So, I wondered: All configuration options are NTSC by default (speed, number of pixel lines) and to get PAL, you have to change them. But with the color palette it's the other way around: You get PAL by default and if you want NTSC, you have to choose it. Also, the old NES emulator NESticle only had the PAL colors. And that's why I wanted to know if the "NTSC palette" is really used in the USA.

So, now that you tell me that the upper colors resemble the original TV screen more (and that there doesn't seem to be a difference between the PAL NES screen and the NTSC NES screen), does anybody know why this so called "NTSC Color Emulation" exist at all? Where does it come from?

GRENTLEMEN · 04-20-2008, 09:18 AM

The raw NTSC-system output is somewhere in between the two, as far as I can tell. NTSC televisions tend to make colors brighter, so it's more likely to appear similar to the first image on your television. If anyone with half a mind saw the second image with washed-out colors, they'd probably adjust their television.

If you hooked up your NTSC system to your computer, or directly to the monitor, you might get an output similar to the "NTSC emulation" mode palette.

DRW · 04-20-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSARS DOUBLE SARS

If you hooked up your NTSC system to your computer, or directly to the monitor, you might get an output similar to the "NTSC emulation" mode palette.

But does that also mean that if I connect a PAL NES to the PC that I get the upper palette?

O.k., one more question: On a normal TV monitor (not PC) with NTSC, which one is it? The upper or the lower image?

If you don't see it: The difference is the height. Look at the blocks on the ground.

GRENTLEMEN · 04-20-2008, 10:29 AM

Should be more like the upper one. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen SMB with that much space at the top of the screen.

DRW · 04-20-2008, 03:37 PM

But whenever I see a "Super Mario Bros." video on YouTube, the two block rows at the bottom are always completely visible.

DarkZero · 04-20-2008, 06:20 PM

Well, keep in mind that YouTube tends to slightly alter some videos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSARS DOUBLE SARS

In fact, I don't think I've ever seen SMB with that much space at the top of the screen.

I have. For unknown reasons, SMB looks like that when I play it on the TV in my living room (which is rare).

MUSHMAN · 04-21-2008, 02:38 PM

This

04-19-2008, 08:45 PM	#1
DRW Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Posts: 68 Thanks: 16 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 3,847.01 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 3,847.01 Donate	Question about NES colors The following question is only for the persons who live in a country where NTSC (and not PAL) is used (for example the USA): If you play "Super Mario Bros." in front of a TV screen (no emulation, I'm talking about a real NES and a real TV), how does the game look like? Does it more resemble the upper image or the lower image?

04-20-2008, 04:22 AM	#5
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,895 Thanks: 458 Thanked 1,154 Times in 630 Posts Points: 6,783.31 Bank: 1,830,360.28 Total Points: 1,837,143.59 Donate	The NES' raw display is somewhere in between. The lower one is a little too washed out, and the upper one's colors are a little too bold. Similarily, the sky was always a little more purplish like the bottom, but not quite so much. No one's ever really been able to get it right in emulation, IMO. Are those two shots from the default palettes in Nestopia? I live in Australia, but I'm from the US, btw. I still have all of my NTSC systems. Last edited by GRENTLEMEN; 04-20-2008 at 04:53 AM.

04-19-2008, 08:54 PM	#2
L007 is Undecided Axe Shreddin' Mod Join Date: May 2001 Location: Farmerland. Gender: Posts: 7,341 Thanks: 90 Thanked 292 Times in 172 Posts Points: 2,213.54 Bank: 16,278.34 Total Points: 18,491.88 Donate	If I remember, I always got the top image. I'm talking about my old NES, not from the Virtual Console.

04-19-2008, 09:31 PM	#3
Mikhail Gorbachev Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Gender: Posts: 9,481 Thanks: 25 Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts Points: 31.00 Bank: 23,461.58 Total Points: 23,492.58 Donate	From my memory, since my NES hasn't worked for years, it's the top one.

04-19-2008, 10:33 PM	#4
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 18,947 Thanks: 360 Thanked 1,501 Times in 783 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 98,101.82 Bank: 12,202,050.71 Total Points: 12,300,152.53 Donate	Depends on how crappy your television is, and whether or not someone's been messing around with the tint.

04-20-2008, 06:54 AM	#6
DarkZero Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In the refrigerator, behind the mayonaise, next to the ketchup, and to the left of the coleslaw. Gender: Posts: 2,574 Thanks: 196 Thanked 94 Times in 72 Posts Points: 17,469.34 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 17,469.34 Donate	I can safely say that it looks most like the top image.

04-20-2008, 09:18 AM	#8
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,895 Thanks: 458 Thanked 1,154 Times in 630 Posts Points: 6,783.31 Bank: 1,830,360.28 Total Points: 1,837,143.59 Donate	The raw NTSC-system output is somewhere in between the two, as far as I can tell. NTSC televisions tend to make colors brighter, so it's more likely to appear similar to the first image on your television. If anyone with half a mind saw the second image with washed-out colors, they'd probably adjust their television. If you hooked up your NTSC system to your computer, or directly to the monitor, you might get an output similar to the "NTSC emulation" mode palette.

04-20-2008, 10:29 AM	#10
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,895 Thanks: 458 Thanked 1,154 Times in 630 Posts Points: 6,783.31 Bank: 1,830,360.28 Total Points: 1,837,143.59 Donate	Should be more like the upper one. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen SMB with that much space at the top of the screen.

04-20-2008, 03:37 PM	#11
DRW Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Posts: 68 Thanks: 16 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 3,847.01 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 3,847.01 Donate	But whenever I see a "Super Mario Bros." video on YouTube, the two block rows at the bottom are always completely visible.

04-21-2008, 02:38 PM	#13
MUSHMAN Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Being ignored by That Guy. Gender: Posts: 3,069 Thanks: 75 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts Points: 496.22 Bank: 15,367.81 Total Points: 15,864.03 Donate	This