And the reviews for CT DS... - Page 9

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-12-2009, 06:26 AM

I think characters like Draggy and Skelly had no reason whatsoever to exist, let alone join your party. -CSM

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 02-12-2009, 03:15 PM

Draggy. And Skelly.

Let me guess, no, really. A dragon and a skeleton. Right?

Perrin Aybara · 02-12-2009, 04:39 PM

The list of why CC sucks is very long.

(To be fair, it is a fun game on its own. But it fails as a sequel to CT.)

And I think any discussion on why Schala's hair changes is pointless. The reason her hair changed is simply because the game designers/programmers of CC were lazy.

-jay

Sim Kid · 02-12-2009, 04:41 PM

IT was basically what Square does best...experiment with gameplay mechanics. Chrono Cross really was just another experiment like Final Fantasy VIII was.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-12-2009, 08:54 PM

I think it's good to experiment, but you shouldn't screw up a series by doing that. CC did this more than any other game I could think of. -CSM

Sim Kid · 02-12-2009, 10:26 PM

Or at least do what Namco's doing with Tales of and just try to stay within a certain set of boundaries.

Namco experiments with the Linear-motion battle system but even when they put it in 3D they made it so that the combat still only really occurs on lines, not like star ocean where you can run anywhere on the field at any time.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-16-2009, 09:46 AM

Okay, I just got CT DS. Here are my immediate first impressions:

Spoiler Below

I REALLY can't stand the way the people during the Middle Ages talk now. It's like it's the standard at Square to have people speak in upper class prose (see FFXII, FFIV DS, what have you), and I think it takes away some of the charm of the game, especially humor value (unless of course, it's ultra-exaggerated, see below).

The worst of all is Frog, who is the example of how it can be good. He talks like everyone else does now, and I miss his "thees" and "thous." That gave him substance.

I like the new Bestiary feature.

I don't understand the point of the Arena, but I'll figure it out someday.

I don't like that they changed Gato's lyrics, which were immortalized in about 70 OC Remixes.

-CSM

Tonberry2k · 02-16-2009, 10:39 PM

Yeah, Gato's lyric change seemed superfluous. And I know exactly what you mean about the Middle Ages language. FF12 was terrible about that. None of the dialogue in that game sounded natural.
As for the Arena, it allows you to get some very powerful items and weapons early on, but besides that, it's kind of tacked-on.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-17-2009, 06:25 AM

^The dialogue in this entire port, and Square games in general these days, seem to lack the idea of a punchline (save Balthier from FFXII, who benefits from this kind of talk because it's funny when he says his punchlines). But Square seems to want to stay as close as possible to the Japanese version that they sacrifice some humor value from the dialogue to do that.

Spoiler Below

Johnny is no longer "The Man." He's now just reduced to "Bro."

**Valigarmander** · 02-17-2009, 09:19 AM

Stanley the Bugman · 02-17-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

Spoiler Below

Johnny is no longer "The Man." He's now just reduced to "Bro."

NNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!1111oneone!1

Tonberry2k · 02-18-2009, 12:09 AM

Yeah, my main complaint with CTDS and FF6's retranslations was the lame "Sky Render"-esque translation.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-18-2009, 06:24 AM

It seems that a lot of the energy was lost in the new translations. -CSM

***Ace Mercury*** · 02-18-2009, 06:30 PM

It's supposedly more "authentic" to the Japanese. Woolsey had a penchant for creative translations, and that sort of trade-off between natural English vs. authentic translation was made.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-18-2009, 07:07 PM

"Authentic" or even "correct" don't necessarily equal "better" in this case. I'd much rather see dialogue flow naturally than be closer to the Japanese. Woolsey did a great job with his localizations. I mean, imagine if Tomato translated Mother 3 to be exactly like the Japanese version. Would the game be as funny? Many of the one liners are designed to work in Japanese but if translated correctly they fail in English, so you have to take creative liberties if you want to bring the punchline back.

For example, the Mother 3 character Yokuba was renamed Fasaad by Tomato for the English translation. This allows a pun to be made, similar to the pun Yokuba was in Japanese. If the name stayed Yokuba it would lose meaning. It's the same thing with Chrono Trigger. When the translations are more "authentic," a lot of energy is taken out of the game (the Mystics, for instance, sound a lot less cunning this time) (and I don't deny that there can be too much energy, look at any of Nomura's ditzes from his Final Fantasies and you'll see what I mean).

-CSM

Tonberry2k · 02-20-2009, 03:01 PM

Agreed. Translation =/= localization.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-20-2009, 09:12 PM

^Yeah. I think "Master of Kitchens" really was the final nail in the coffin. -CSM

Sim Kid · 02-21-2009, 02:04 AM

So in other words...they changed it, now it sucks?

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 02-21-2009, 02:13 AM

What was Master of Kitchens before? Headcook? Something less ridiculous, to be sure.

^ It's just less perfect.

**Crazyswordsman** · 02-21-2009, 09:12 AM

^It was "chef." -CSM

02-12-2009, 06:26 AM	#161
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	I think characters like Draggy and Skelly had no reason whatsoever to exist, let alone join your party. -CSM

02-12-2009, 03:15 PM	#162
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Draggy. And Skelly. Let me guess, no, really. A dragon and a skeleton. Right?

02-12-2009, 04:39 PM	#163
Perrin Aybara Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Alone....so terribly alone... Some... where... out... there... dies Gender: Posts: 12,760 Thanks: 194 Thanked 504 Times in 235 Posts	The list of why CC sucks is very long. (To be fair, it is a fun game on its own. But it fails as a sequel to CT.) And I think any discussion on why Schala's hair changes is pointless. The reason her hair changed is simply because the game designers/programmers of CC were lazy. -jay

02-12-2009, 04:41 PM	#164
Sim Kid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The state of Denial Gender: Posts: 8,884 Thanks: 80 Thanked 198 Times in 122 Posts	IT was basically what Square does best...experiment with gameplay mechanics. Chrono Cross really was just another experiment like Final Fantasy VIII was.

02-12-2009, 08:54 PM	#165
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	I think it's good to experiment, but you shouldn't screw up a series by doing that. CC did this more than any other game I could think of. -CSM

02-12-2009, 10:26 PM	#166
Sim Kid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The state of Denial Gender: Posts: 8,884 Thanks: 80 Thanked 198 Times in 122 Posts	Or at least do what Namco's doing with Tales of and just try to stay within a certain set of boundaries. Namco experiments with the Linear-motion battle system but even when they put it in 3D they made it so that the combat still only really occurs on lines, not like star ocean where you can run anywhere on the field at any time.

02-16-2009, 09:46 AM	#167
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	Okay, I just got CT DS. Here are my immediate first impressions: Spoiler Below I REALLY can't stand the way the people during the Middle Ages talk now. It's like it's the standard at Square to have people speak in upper class prose (see FFXII, FFIV DS, what have you), and I think it takes away some of the charm of the game, especially humor value (unless of course, it's ultra-exaggerated, see below). The worst of all is Frog, who is the example of how it can be good. He talks like everyone else does now, and I miss his "thees" and "thous." That gave him substance. I like the new Bestiary feature. I don't understand the point of the Arena, but I'll figure it out someday. I don't like that they changed Gato's lyrics, which were immortalized in about 70 OC Remixes. -CSM

02-16-2009, 10:39 PM	#168
Tonberry2k Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pensacola, FL alternatively, The Spriters' Resource Gender: Posts: 5,311 Thanks: 10 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Yeah, Gato's lyric change seemed superfluous. And I know exactly what you mean about the Middle Ages language. FF12 was terrible about that. None of the dialogue in that game sounded natural. As for the Arena, it allows you to get some very powerful items and weapons early on, but besides that, it's kind of tacked-on.

02-17-2009, 06:25 AM	#169
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	^The dialogue in this entire port, and Square games in general these days, seem to lack the idea of a punchline (save Balthier from FFXII, who benefits from this kind of talk because it's funny when he says his punchlines). But Square seems to want to stay as close as possible to the Japanese version that they sacrifice some humor value from the dialogue to do that. Spoiler Below Johnny is no longer "The Man." He's now just reduced to "Bro."

02-17-2009, 09:19 AM	#170
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,700 Times in 2,580 Posts Blog Entries: 20	^

02-18-2009, 12:09 AM	#172
Tonberry2k Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pensacola, FL alternatively, The Spriters' Resource Gender: Posts: 5,311 Thanks: 10 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Yeah, my main complaint with CTDS and FF6's retranslations was the lame "Sky Render"-esque translation.

02-18-2009, 06:24 AM	#173
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	It seems that a lot of the energy was lost in the new translations. -CSM

02-18-2009, 06:30 PM	#174
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,275 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	It's supposedly more "authentic" to the Japanese. Woolsey had a penchant for creative translations, and that sort of trade-off between natural English vs. authentic translation was made.

02-18-2009, 07:07 PM	#175
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	"Authentic" or even "correct" don't necessarily equal "better" in this case. I'd much rather see dialogue flow naturally than be closer to the Japanese. Woolsey did a great job with his localizations. I mean, imagine if Tomato translated Mother 3 to be exactly like the Japanese version. Would the game be as funny? Many of the one liners are designed to work in Japanese but if translated correctly they fail in English, so you have to take creative liberties if you want to bring the punchline back. For example, the Mother 3 character Yokuba was renamed Fasaad by Tomato for the English translation. This allows a pun to be made, similar to the pun Yokuba was in Japanese. If the name stayed Yokuba it would lose meaning. It's the same thing with Chrono Trigger. When the translations are more "authentic," a lot of energy is taken out of the game (the Mystics, for instance, sound a lot less cunning this time) (and I don't deny that there can be too much energy, look at any of Nomura's ditzes from his Final Fantasies and you'll see what I mean). -CSM

02-20-2009, 03:01 PM	#176
Tonberry2k Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pensacola, FL alternatively, The Spriters' Resource Gender: Posts: 5,311 Thanks: 10 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	Agreed. Translation =/= localization.

02-20-2009, 09:12 PM	#177
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	^Yeah. I think "Master of Kitchens" really was the final nail in the coffin. -CSM

02-21-2009, 02:04 AM	#178
Sim Kid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The state of Denial Gender: Posts: 8,884 Thanks: 80 Thanked 198 Times in 122 Posts	So in other words...they changed it, now it sucks?

02-21-2009, 02:13 AM	#179
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	What was Master of Kitchens before? Headcook? Something less ridiculous, to be sure. ^ It's just less perfect.

02-21-2009, 09:12 AM	#180
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,791 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 686 Times in 467 Posts	^It was "chef." -CSM