Square Enix destroys some more Fan Chrono Projects

Metal Man · 05-13-2009, 01:29 AM

Destructoid - Square Enix shuts down Chrono fan game Crimson Echoes

What it says on the tin.

As if I needed any more reason to not buy their games than having no money and Jay's hilarious jokes at the expense of the rather poor new games made by these guys.

**Kargath** · 05-13-2009, 03:52 AM

People need to learn to create original content.
They had this coming for a long time.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-13-2009, 06:58 AM

Wow, just wow. I probably would've had nothing nice to say about Square if they didn't just remake CT, but still, I can understand their position, and unfortunately we live in a world where the law is so skewed that frivolous lawsuits are just waiting to happen. -CSM

***Ace Mercury*** · 05-13-2009, 11:07 AM

The thing about intellectual property is that if you don't at least put an effort into enforcing it, the law isn't on your side. If they didn't at least show they were paying attention, if someone else comes along an deliberately undercuts profits, it'd be harder to make a case in the courtroom.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 05-13-2009, 03:09 PM

I think it is pretty messed up for them to do it this late in the game. They probably knew about it from the start, and waiting for it to be finished and then destroying it was kinda cruel.

Either way, I can understand their (SE's) position as well. With CTDS being released not too long ago, they had to do it. They may even have something for the CT series planned, if only a CC rerelease on PSN.

***Ace Mercury*** · 05-13-2009, 03:18 PM

I doubt that they knew it from the start; I imagine it'd be weird if they're constantly Googling themselves about the latest ROM hacks across the globe.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 05-13-2009, 03:22 PM

Well, maybe not from the start, but surely they didn't "just" catch wind at the last minute.

And they don't really have to Google themselves much to find that site, supposedly it is pretty well known. I've only been there a few times though.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-13-2009, 04:27 PM

Here's an interesting conundrum: a lot of times C&Ds are justified (and rightly so) by a fear of lost profits. However, in cases like this (although since CTDS this has less of a case), this is a case of a company getting paranoid over losing profits with something that they don't think is profitable anyway. I like to consider this someone exercising their right to NOT use what they own.

Frankly I think that in order to keep a copyright you should have to be active in not just enforcing it, but using it as well. Otherwise you're essentially shoving something on the back shelf and hiding it from the rest of the world. THAT is what I'm opposed to. I like to call it "copyright abuse." -CSM

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 05-13-2009, 04:57 PM

I essentially agree, but if there is good reason for such an action as hiding their little treasures, I could understand. With CT, it is particularly difficult. It is a profitable series that is being under-utilized, but with possibly good reasons. They are afraid to make a crappy/different feeling CT game, which is understandable, but why don't they remake/re-release CC or even remake CT properly at least?

Tough situation really, but I want some more CT.

Jesus · 05-13-2009, 08:10 PM

The creators of the Mother 3 patch are lucky they didn't get in trouble for their "fan translation". And a cease and desist order by Square-Enix is showing mercy in my book.

^^Have you ever wondered that Square-Enix may get in trouble for letting it go as well? Artists who worked on the original wouldn't be to pleased to have their artwork re-created for someone else's use...even if for non-profitable reasons. There has to be someone around VGF who knows the laws better than us though, I'll just wait for him to get here.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-13-2009, 08:56 PM

^If the artist REALLY cares, he would take ownership of his own work. People who let his work sit on the back shelf are denying him of any sort of profits. -CSM

Metal Man · 05-13-2009, 08:59 PM

It just strikes me as strange in its unique scope. People hack all the other games but Chrono Trigger is a no-no?

It just tells me they don't want anyone to enjoy non-sanctioned CT, which, due to their lack of non-remake releases, means these talented people should probably stick to other games/away from CT if they don't want their projects destroyed.

Hence, over time, there loses any purpose to there being a CT fandom, as they could ostensibly C&D whatever had CT on it, hence as opposed to being a Sonic fan, being a CT fan means potentially being sued for being a fan.

It's obvious they don't even want to try reconciling their want to avoid people editing ROM images with having a fandom which doesn't have to fear being sued for any reference to their copyrighted material. So it makes me wonder why they even bother continuing being fans if they are met with frequent beatings.

Oh well.

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-13-2009, 09:00 PM

Also, WvW, part of the reason Tomato didn't get a C&D was because Nintendo employees are actually playing it. -CSM

Tonberry2k · 05-19-2009, 10:57 AM

It's weird that there are Mario and Sonic game hacks and neither of those companies care. Mother 3 got a fan translation, Nintendo didn't care. People do Final Fantasy hacks ALL THE TIME and Square didn't care, but as soon as someone touches Chrono Trigger, Square jumps on it. (Now I have Apache stuck in my head)

Metal Man · 05-19-2009, 02:22 PM

It's company specific. Nintendo and SEGA wisely know that allowing rom hacks to live continues to give popularity to their games, and might help encourage people to buy the games off of the virtual console.

On the other hand, Square Enix lives in the 90's and believes that if they terrorize people the hacks will go away.

Believe me, the current generation may have been cowed, but I bet you some day a new generation of hackers will simply figure out a way to add in plausible deniability to the rom patches.

At which point Square Enix can yell all they want.

That, and people in Russia can probably do whatever the heck they want

**Crazyswordsman** · 05-19-2009, 04:43 PM

^^Nintendo didn't care because they had no plans to release it. Plus, I've heard reports that the professional gaming staff actually played the fan translation.

And Square was so heartless to shut down the CT retranslation project. After all, it's just a translation. It doesn't destroy profits. It's just a research project at the most to see what the programmers truly intended (and Square has gone to great lengths to make PAL versions of the games not have an English text just so Americans can't see it). -CSM

**Perrin Aybara** · 06-03-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargath

People need to learn to create original content.

People like Square.

Zing.

-jay

05-13-2009, 01:29 AM	#1
Metal Man Cheapskate Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Shane is the king of Monopoly! Gender: Posts: 13,797 Thanks: 125 Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts Points: 5,325.30 Bank: 142,880.63 Total Points: 148,205.93 Donate	Square Enix destroys some more Fan Chrono Projects Destructoid - Square Enix shuts down Chrono fan game Crimson Echoes What it says on the tin. As if I needed any more reason to not buy their games than having no money and Jay's hilarious jokes at the expense of the rather poor new games made by these guys.

05-13-2009, 03:52 AM	#2
Kargath "Ask me questions. We have all the time in the world." (Polls Mod) Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: kargath64.deviantart.com Gender: Posts: 6,692 Thanks: 957 Thanked 531 Times in 335 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 72,665.14 Bank: 51,555,237.51 Total Points: 51,627,902.65 Donate	People need to learn to create original content. They had this coming for a long time.

05-13-2009, 06:58 AM	#3
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,147 Thanks: 892 Thanked 623 Times in 414 Posts Points: 286,212.98 Bank: 5,177,015.20 Total Points: 5,463,228.18 Donate	Wow, just wow. I probably would've had nothing nice to say about Square if they didn't just remake CT, but still, I can understand their position, and unfortunately we live in a world where the law is so skewed that frivolous lawsuits are just waiting to happen. -CSM

05-13-2009, 11:07 AM	#4
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 21,110 Thanks: 466 Thanked 2,575 Times in 1,213 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 79,839.21 Bank: 2,281,299,389.92 Total Points: 2,281,379,229.14 Donate	The thing about intellectual property is that if you don't at least put an effort into enforcing it, the law isn't on your side. If they didn't at least show they were paying attention, if someone else comes along an deliberately undercuts profits, it'd be harder to make a case in the courtroom.

05-13-2009, 03:09 PM	#5
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,055 Thanks: 924 Thanked 227 Times in 198 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,371.86 Bank: 1,628,241.35 Total Points: 1,662,613.21 Donate	I think it is pretty messed up for them to do it this late in the game. They probably knew about it from the start, and waiting for it to be finished and then destroying it was kinda cruel. Either way, I can understand their (SE's) position as well. With CTDS being released not too long ago, they had to do it. They may even have something for the CT series planned, if only a CC rerelease on PSN.

05-13-2009, 03:18 PM	#6
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 21,110 Thanks: 466 Thanked 2,575 Times in 1,213 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 79,839.21 Bank: 2,281,299,389.92 Total Points: 2,281,379,229.14 Donate	I doubt that they knew it from the start; I imagine it'd be weird if they're constantly Googling themselves about the latest ROM hacks across the globe.

05-13-2009, 03:22 PM	#7
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,055 Thanks: 924 Thanked 227 Times in 198 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,371.86 Bank: 1,628,241.35 Total Points: 1,662,613.21 Donate	Well, maybe not from the start, but surely they didn't "just" catch wind at the last minute. And they don't really have to Google themselves much to find that site, supposedly it is pretty well known. I've only been there a few times though.

05-13-2009, 04:27 PM	#8
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,147 Thanks: 892 Thanked 623 Times in 414 Posts Points: 286,212.98 Bank: 5,177,015.20 Total Points: 5,463,228.18 Donate	Here's an interesting conundrum: a lot of times C&Ds are justified (and rightly so) by a fear of lost profits. However, in cases like this (although since CTDS this has less of a case), this is a case of a company getting paranoid over losing profits with something that they don't think is profitable anyway. I like to consider this someone exercising their right to NOT use what they own. Frankly I think that in order to keep a copyright you should have to be active in not just enforcing it, but using it as well. Otherwise you're essentially shoving something on the back shelf and hiding it from the rest of the world. THAT is what I'm opposed to. I like to call it "copyright abuse." -CSM

05-13-2009, 04:57 PM	#9
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,055 Thanks: 924 Thanked 227 Times in 198 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 34,371.86 Bank: 1,628,241.35 Total Points: 1,662,613.21 Donate	I essentially agree, but if there is good reason for such an action as hiding their little treasures, I could understand. With CT, it is particularly difficult. It is a profitable series that is being under-utilized, but with possibly good reasons. They are afraid to make a crappy/different feeling CT game, which is understandable, but why don't they remake/re-release CC or even remake CT properly at least? Tough situation really, but I want some more CT.

05-13-2009, 08:10 PM	#10
Jesus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Gender: Posts: 5,538 Thanks: 103 Thanked 138 Times in 100 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Points: 20,905.33 Bank: 9,822,283.41 Total Points: 9,843,188.74 Donate	The creators of the Mother 3 patch are lucky they didn't get in trouble for their "fan translation". And a cease and desist order by Square-Enix is showing mercy in my book. ^^Have you ever wondered that Square-Enix may get in trouble for letting it go as well? Artists who worked on the original wouldn't be to pleased to have their artwork re-created for someone else's use...even if for non-profitable reasons. There has to be someone around VGF who knows the laws better than us though, I'll just wait for him to get here.

05-13-2009, 08:56 PM	#11
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,147 Thanks: 892 Thanked 623 Times in 414 Posts Points: 286,212.98 Bank: 5,177,015.20 Total Points: 5,463,228.18 Donate	^If the artist REALLY cares, he would take ownership of his own work. People who let his work sit on the back shelf are denying him of any sort of profits. -CSM

05-13-2009, 08:59 PM	#12
Metal Man Cheapskate Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Shane is the king of Monopoly! Gender: Posts: 13,797 Thanks: 125 Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts Points: 5,325.30 Bank: 142,880.63 Total Points: 148,205.93 Donate	It just strikes me as strange in its unique scope. People hack all the other games but Chrono Trigger is a no-no? It just tells me they don't want anyone to enjoy non-sanctioned CT, which, due to their lack of non-remake releases, means these talented people should probably stick to other games/away from CT if they don't want their projects destroyed. Hence, over time, there loses any purpose to there being a CT fandom, as they could ostensibly C&D whatever had CT on it, hence as opposed to being a Sonic fan, being a CT fan means potentially being sued for being a fan. It's obvious they don't even want to try reconciling their want to avoid people editing ROM images with having a fandom which doesn't have to fear being sued for any reference to their copyrighted material. So it makes me wonder why they even bother continuing being fans if they are met with frequent beatings. Oh well.

05-13-2009, 09:00 PM	#13
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,147 Thanks: 892 Thanked 623 Times in 414 Posts Points: 286,212.98 Bank: 5,177,015.20 Total Points: 5,463,228.18 Donate	Also, WvW, part of the reason Tomato didn't get a C&D was because Nintendo employees are actually playing it. -CSM

05-19-2009, 10:57 AM	#14
Tonberry2k Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pensacola, FL alternatively, The Spriters' Resource Gender: Posts: 5,306 Thanks: 9 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts Points: 31,129.98 Bank: 3,091.92 Total Points: 34,221.90 Donate	It's weird that there are Mario and Sonic game hacks and neither of those companies care. Mother 3 got a fan translation, Nintendo didn't care. People do Final Fantasy hacks ALL THE TIME and Square didn't care, but as soon as someone touches Chrono Trigger, Square jumps on it. (Now I have Apache stuck in my head)

05-19-2009, 02:22 PM	#15
Metal Man Cheapskate Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Shane is the king of Monopoly! Gender: Posts: 13,797 Thanks: 125 Thanked 600 Times in 421 Posts Points: 5,325.30 Bank: 142,880.63 Total Points: 148,205.93 Donate	It's company specific. Nintendo and SEGA wisely know that allowing rom hacks to live continues to give popularity to their games, and might help encourage people to buy the games off of the virtual console. On the other hand, Square Enix lives in the 90's and believes that if they terrorize people the hacks will go away. Believe me, the current generation may have been cowed, but I bet you some day a new generation of hackers will simply figure out a way to add in plausible deniability to the rom patches. At which point Square Enix can yell all they want. That, and people in Russia can probably do whatever the heck they want

05-19-2009, 04:43 PM	#16
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,147 Thanks: 892 Thanked 623 Times in 414 Posts Points: 286,212.98 Bank: 5,177,015.20 Total Points: 5,463,228.18 Donate	^^Nintendo didn't care because they had no plans to release it. Plus, I've heard reports that the professional gaming staff actually played the fan translation. And Square was so heartless to shut down the CT retranslation project. After all, it's just a translation. It doesn't destroy profits. It's just a research project at the most to see what the programmers truly intended (and Square has gone to great lengths to make PAL versions of the games not have an English text just so Americans can't see it). -CSM