Holy crap.

Valigarmander · 01-16-2010, 05:39 PM

I can't believe that after all this time, I never noticed this. Even after seeing so much official art, I never saw the sprite that way until I had a WTF moment this morning.

...He looks cooler now.

X-3 · 01-16-2010, 05:49 PM

I don't see that at all. Must e the zoomed-in sprite, or the fact that you were 3 years old then, making that image implanted into your mind.

Glückspilz · 01-16-2010, 07:20 PM

I see what you see, but I never saw it before. That's kinda funny though.

X-3, take the little grey jewel on the sprite's forehead and make it into his eye. The headband around it becomes his skin and the black of his eyes becomes the face-covering.

**Crazyswordsman** · 01-16-2010, 08:06 PM

I never thought of that, but I think seeing Shadow's dreams disproves this. -CSM

Black Belt Tazy · 01-16-2010, 10:28 PM

I see it.

Though it makes him have a smashed jaw. >_<

Tonberry2k · 02-18-2010, 02:54 AM

Yeah, I can't see it at all, haha. Though I had a similar thing with Yakra.

I thought the horns were his eyes.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 02-18-2010, 08:57 AM

Uhh all the sprites in that game were so well made, how could you possibly have thought the coolest character was poorly done like that? XD

I never saw that, and have trouble seeing it intentionally.

^ That's pretty great, but again, I'm having trouble seeing it.

Jere · 02-18-2010, 11:04 AM

Not this crap, soon we will argue how the platforms in Mega mans 2 airmanstage looks like is it a octorock or a big smile!

Throbbing Mob · 02-19-2010, 01:31 AM

Actually, since this just came up elsewhere, here's one of my biffs with M&L:SS

Look at the upper left corner. What you're intended to see is a grass plateau atop a short vertical incline, raised above the sandy ground. What I saw on default is a grassy recession in the sandy ground. Some decent shading could've solved this, but instead I was looking at some crazy Escher-style weirdness.

In games like LttP, they were able to avoid this kind of confusion through depth-shading and careful use of context. >_>

Black Belt Tazy · 02-19-2010, 09:23 AM

Sorry, AI. The best I can see is it floating off the ground. I guess Cartoony shading doesn't agree with you. :/

Throbbing Mob · 02-19-2010, 10:16 AM

Okay, let me point this out to you a little simpler: Why is there a shadow on both the left and right sides of the plateaus? Light doesn't do that. Why aren't there shadows on the grass? Light doesn't do that, either. If the edging of the grass is done with the same tone as the shading, what is stopping the viewer from seeing shading as edging? If those are shadows around the plateaus, why are they not varying lengths due to the height of the plateaus? Light doesn't do that.

Here's a quick diagram. Assume that the "sun" size is exact, and the space it occupies is two dimensional, there is no Z-planar difference. This is what they should have done:

Now, this is what they did:

Even more bizarre is the comparison between the shadow of the block atop the higher plateau, and Mario/Luigi's shadow size as well as the para troopa's. Their distance from their respective casting surfaces is not of any great difference. Despite this, the shadow of the block is of identical 2D proportions to a bottom facet of the block. Mario and Luigi should cast a larger shadow based on these observations, and the troopa should cast a much larger shadow.

Additionally, although this is more proper than I truly expect, the darkness of the shadow of any of the objects on screen should be comparable to the shadows cast by the plateaus, or at least the plateau shadows should be darker, and they should certainly be larger. What the f is going on.

Black Belt Tazy · 02-19-2010, 12:07 PM

Ohhhh, I thought you meant the plateau on the left.

....never noticed that before. It seems like a lazy tileset creator that never cared for proper shadows.

Though, One could argue that the sun is right above this area, allowing for the shadows to be the way they are, but honestly my mind is really bending over this now.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 02-19-2010, 12:36 PM

Nope, no argument about direct sunlight. There wouldn't be any shadowing to either side of the landmass if it were overhead. Their weird purpley discolouration of the sand is meant to be some kind of dodgy everywhere-at-once shadow, and it's just sad. Because fail. XD

Throbbing Mob · 02-19-2010, 12:52 PM

Well, Tazy, you almost got it. I am still trying to point out that the plateau angle is reversible, and it's enabled that way because of the lack of appropriate shadows or shading. There are a lot of problems going on that enable it, but that's the most obvious one. Here's another observation: the line at the top of the plateau's edge is darker than the line that should be in shadow, where it meets the sand. The line in shadow should be darker than the higher line, if it changes tone; that is another way to indicate depth.

Another thing I find bizarre about the image is how the lines at the base of the plateaus have this waving pattern that is totally out of sync with the lines at the top of the plateaus - they very with much greater depth than the lines at the "top." It's not totally unexplainable, but it appears as though the lower cliff face is not supporting the higher cliff face. In fact, the way that the lower line varies with such greater depth is in reverse of what an artist should observe; it is drawn in such a way that the lower line more closely resembles what should be the edge of a cliff than the higher line.

So, when I'm looking at the image, the broken plateau shadow is merely edging around the top plateau, and the top line is supporting the bottom line. The more you know about how the image should be composed to indicate space, it looks like an impossible abstraction.

Random User · 02-19-2010, 11:58 PM

^ I never noticed any of that before you pointed it out...

Also notice the shadow of the ! Block is not lined up, proving the sun isn`t directly above the area.

Invalid Username · 02-20-2010, 12:02 AM

I always forgot that it was a raised platform. D:

Sim Kid · 02-21-2010, 03:36 PM

I thought Valkyrie's shields were attached to her bow for awhile. When she got a sword I realized they were floating in mid-air. (I wasn't paying attention to her attacking animation; I was more focused on making sure Lawfer, Jun, Aelia, and Kashel's hits connected)

Valigarmander · 02-21-2010, 04:35 PM

Here's one I did a while ago.

As a kid, I used to think certain sections of the cupboards in SMRPG were scary-looking faces (the cups are the eyes, the plates make a creepy grin, and the board in between was a really long nose). Creeped me out for a while until I realized they were just dishes. Ahh, the power of a child's imagination.

Trainbreaker · 02-21-2010, 05:23 PM

^ I CAN'T UN-SEE IT

Glutexo · 02-21-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

CAN see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonberry2k

CAN'T see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Out-of-Control Inflatable Gorilla Fire

CAN'T see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

CAN see it.

01-16-2010, 05:39 PM	#1
Valigarmander Better than you. Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 22,075 Thanks: 1,350 Thanked 3,717 Times in 1,673 Posts Points: 6,842.25 Bank: 26,561,693.71 Total Points: 26,568,535.96 Donate	Holy crap. I can't believe that after all this time, I never noticed this. Even after seeing so much official art, I never saw the sprite that way until I had a WTF moment this morning. ...He looks cooler now. __________________ This is a signature.

02-19-2010, 10:16 AM	#11
Throbbing Mob THE PRESIDENT OF FUN Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 22,164 Thanks: 1,139 Thanked 3,732 Times in 1,664 Posts Points: 60,041.26 Bank: 336,968,668.21 Total Points: 337,028,709.47 Donate	Okay, let me point this out to you a little simpler: Why is there a shadow on both the left and right sides of the plateaus? Light doesn't do that. Why aren't there shadows on the grass? Light doesn't do that, either. If the edging of the grass is done with the same tone as the shading, what is stopping the viewer from seeing shading as edging? If those are shadows around the plateaus, why are they not varying lengths due to the height of the plateaus? Light doesn't do that. Here's a quick diagram. Assume that the "sun" size is exact, and the space it occupies is two dimensional, there is no Z-planar difference. This is what they should have done: Now, this is what they did: Even more bizarre is the comparison between the shadow of the block atop the higher plateau, and Mario/Luigi's shadow size as well as the para troopa's. Their distance from their respective casting surfaces is not of any great difference. Despite this, the shadow of the block is of identical 2D proportions to a bottom facet of the block. Mario and Luigi should cast a larger shadow based on these observations, and the troopa should cast a much larger shadow. Additionally, although this is more proper than I truly expect, the darkness of the shadow of any of the objects on screen should be comparable to the shadows cast by the plateaus, or at least the plateau shadows should be darker, and they should certainly be larger. What the f is going on. Last edited by Out-of-Control Inflatable Gorilla Fire; 02-19-2010 at 11:00 AM.

02-19-2010, 12:07 PM	#12
Black Belt Tazy I specialize in HORN DRILL! HRARGH! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cianwood Gym Gender: Posts: 12,871 Thanks: 432 Thanked 993 Times in 709 Posts Blog Entries: 18 Points: 61,462.48 Bank: 5,486,434.01 Total Points: 5,547,896.49 Donate	Aiyiyi Ohhhh, I thought you meant the plateau on the left. ....never noticed that before. It seems like a lazy tileset creator that never cared for proper shadows. Though, One could argue that the sun is right above this area, allowing for the shadows to be the way they are, but honestly my mind is really bending over this now.

02-21-2010, 04:35 PM	#18
Valigarmander Better than you. Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 22,075 Thanks: 1,350 Thanked 3,717 Times in 1,673 Posts Points: 6,842.25 Bank: 26,561,693.71 Total Points: 26,568,535.96 Donate	Here's one I did a while ago. As a kid, I used to think certain sections of the cupboards in SMRPG were scary-looking faces (the cups are the eyes, the plates make a creepy grin, and the board in between was a really long nose). Creeped me out for a while until I realized they were just dishes. Ahh, the power of a child's imagination. __________________ This is a signature.

01-16-2010, 05:49 PM	#2
X-3 Empty Mage Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Omega Superduper Ultra Land that Sucks Gender: Posts: 12,886 Thanks: 538 Thanked 759 Times in 530 Posts Blog Entries: 10 Points: 42,144.51 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 42,144.51 Donate	I don't see that at all. Must e the zoomed-in sprite, or the fact that you were 3 years old then, making that image implanted into your mind.

01-16-2010, 07:20 PM	#3
Glückspilz Moderator of Awesome Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 25,826 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 1,134 Times in 636 Posts Points: 92,638.18 Bank: 7,982,191.16 Total Points: 8,074,829.35 Donate	I see what you see, but I never saw it before. That's kinda funny though. X-3, take the little grey jewel on the sprite's forehead and make it into his eye. The headband around it becomes his skin and the black of his eyes becomes the face-covering.

01-16-2010, 08:06 PM	#4
Crazyswordsman This key doesn't work. Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 10,147 Thanks: 892 Thanked 624 Times in 415 Posts Points: 286,332.98 Bank: 5,177,015.20 Total Points: 5,463,348.18 Donate	I never thought of that, but I think seeing Shadow's dreams disproves this. -CSM

01-16-2010, 10:28 PM	#5
Black Belt Tazy I specialize in HORN DRILL! HRARGH! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cianwood Gym Gender: Posts: 12,871 Thanks: 432 Thanked 993 Times in 709 Posts Blog Entries: 18 Points: 61,462.48 Bank: 5,486,434.01 Total Points: 5,547,896.49 Donate	I see it. Though it makes him have a smashed jaw. >_<

02-18-2010, 02:54 AM	#6
Tonberry2k Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pensacola, FL alternatively, The Spriters' Resource Gender: Posts: 5,306 Thanks: 9 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts Points: 31,133.98 Bank: 3,091.92 Total Points: 34,225.90 Donate	Yeah, I can't see it at all, haha. Though I had a similar thing with Yakra. I thought the horns were his eyes.

02-18-2010, 08:57 AM	#7
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 26,514 Thanks: 932 Thanked 1,169 Times in 739 Posts Points: 9,813.77 Bank: 28,326,269.38 Total Points: 28,336,083.15 Donate	Uhh all the sprites in that game were so well made, how could you possibly have thought the coolest character was poorly done like that? XD I never saw that, and have trouble seeing it intentionally. ^ That's pretty great, but again, I'm having trouble seeing it.

02-18-2010, 11:04 AM	#8
Jere Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sundsvall Sweden Gender: Posts: 1,272 Thanks: 214 Thanked 94 Times in 67 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Points: 8,164.58 Bank: 290,911.53 Total Points: 299,076.11 Donate	Not this crap, soon we will argue how the platforms in Mega mans 2 airmanstage looks like is it a octorock or a big smile!

02-19-2010, 01:31 AM	#9
Throbbing Mob THE PRESIDENT OF FUN Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 22,164 Thanks: 1,139 Thanked 3,732 Times in 1,664 Posts Points: 60,041.26 Bank: 336,968,668.21 Total Points: 337,028,709.47 Donate	Actually, since this just came up elsewhere, here's one of my biffs with M&L:SS Look at the upper left corner. What you're intended to see is a grass plateau atop a short vertical incline, raised above the sandy ground. What I saw on default is a grassy recession in the sandy ground. Some decent shading could've solved this, but instead I was looking at some crazy Escher-style weirdness. In games like LttP, they were able to avoid this kind of confusion through depth-shading and careful use of context. >_>

02-19-2010, 09:23 AM	#10
Black Belt Tazy I specialize in HORN DRILL! HRARGH! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cianwood Gym Gender: Posts: 12,871 Thanks: 432 Thanked 993 Times in 709 Posts Blog Entries: 18 Points: 61,462.48 Bank: 5,486,434.01 Total Points: 5,547,896.49 Donate	Sorry, AI. The best I can see is it floating off the ground. I guess Cartoony shading doesn't agree with you. :/

02-19-2010, 12:36 PM	#13
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 26,514 Thanks: 932 Thanked 1,169 Times in 739 Posts Points: 9,813.77 Bank: 28,326,269.38 Total Points: 28,336,083.15 Donate	Nope, no argument about direct sunlight. There wouldn't be any shadowing to either side of the landmass if it were overhead. Their weird purpley discolouration of the sand is meant to be some kind of dodgy everywhere-at-once shadow, and it's just sad. Because fail. XD

02-19-2010, 12:52 PM	#14
Throbbing Mob THE PRESIDENT OF FUN Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 22,164 Thanks: 1,139 Thanked 3,732 Times in 1,664 Posts Points: 60,041.26 Bank: 336,968,668.21 Total Points: 337,028,709.47 Donate	Well, Tazy, you almost got it. I am still trying to point out that the plateau angle is reversible, and it's enabled that way because of the lack of appropriate shadows or shading. There are a lot of problems going on that enable it, but that's the most obvious one. Here's another observation: the line at the top of the plateau's edge is darker than the line that should be in shadow, where it meets the sand. The line in shadow should be darker than the higher line, if it changes tone; that is another way to indicate depth. Another thing I find bizarre about the image is how the lines at the base of the plateaus have this waving pattern that is totally out of sync with the lines at the top of the plateaus - they very with much greater depth than the lines at the "top." It's not totally unexplainable, but it appears as though the lower cliff face is not supporting the higher cliff face. In fact, the way that the lower line varies with such greater depth is in reverse of what an artist should observe; it is drawn in such a way that the lower line more closely resembles what should be the edge of a cliff than the higher line. So, when I'm looking at the image, the broken plateau shadow is merely edging around the top plateau, and the top line is supporting the bottom line. The more you know about how the image should be composed to indicate space, it looks like an impossible abstraction.

02-19-2010, 11:58 PM	#15
Random User Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Everytime I go to where I really wanna be, it`s already where I am. `CAUSE I`M ALREADY THERE!!! Gender: Posts: 1,000 Thanks: 130 Thanked 47 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 4 Points: 9,758.33 Bank: 0.25 Total Points: 9,758.58 Donate	^ I never noticed any of that before you pointed it out... Also notice the shadow of the ! Block is not lined up, proving the sun isn`t directly above the area.

02-20-2010, 12:02 AM	#16
Invalid Username Refresh your page and try again. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: 404 file not found Gender: Posts: 15,401 Thanks: 771 Thanked 771 Times in 587 Posts Blog Entries: 8 Points: 39,870.54 Bank: 998,653.64 Total Points: 1,038,524.18 Donate	I always forgot that it was a raised platform. D:

02-21-2010, 03:36 PM	#17
Sim Kid Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The state of Denial Gender: Posts: 7,897 Thanks: 47 Thanked 146 Times in 86 Posts Points: 116,717.24 Bank: 13,925.12 Total Points: 130,642.36 Donate	I thought Valkyrie's shields were attached to her bow for awhile. When she got a sword I realized they were floating in mid-air. (I wasn't paying attention to her attacking animation; I was more focused on making sure Lawfer, Jun, Aelia, and Kashel's hits connected)

02-21-2010, 05:23 PM	#19
Trainbreaker Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GET THAT STRAIGHTJACKET AWAY FROM ME Gender: Posts: 2,053 Thanks: 550 Thanked 74 Times in 57 Posts Points: 4,939.85 Bank: 3,327.66 Total Points: 8,267.51 Donate	^ I CAN'T UN-SEE IT