Why is school so worthless?

imported_Andrew · 12-09-2004, 08:14 PM

Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would want to know or what higher authority thinks that knowing about cell respiration, centrioles and the G1 phase is important? And I know it will get worse in higher grades. I've been studying two hours for this worthless biology test, and I still can't tell you what happens during anaphase. *cries*

I appreciated life even before I knew how it worked, let's leave it at that? It ain't broke, I don't care.

I'm having an effin breakdown.

ocarinagirl · 12-09-2004, 09:02 PM

You know, that's the exact sentiment that people used to have.

In the Middle Ages. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Be thankful that you're getting an education at all. Ungrateful child.

Beam Yosho the Drunkard · 12-09-2004, 09:35 PM

If you want to be a...I derno, a human biologist, DNA scientist or whatever, cell respiration, centrioles and the G1 phase would be pretty important.

....Or maybe you'll go on "Who wants to be a Millionaire?" and this stuff would come up. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Eagle Eye · 12-09-2004, 09:37 PM

Okay, I understand all through Middle School but High School... PAUSE!!!!

Algebra I is probably the only MAth Course you'll need after 7th Grade Math (you use ALG without noticing it) aside from that, Geo and ALG II and etc. should be optional courses for seniors, or college courses when you follow a certain path.

Biology, Chemistry, all those others, yeah, one year, because in high school you don't know TOO much what you wanna do, so you need foundation if you ever change your mind to do something in that field

English, whether I like it or not, is needed, reinforcement of the language

Foriegn Language should ALWAYS be a requirement, it never hurts.

In short:
English, and Foreign Language are the only two EXTREMELY neccessary, along with maybe World Geography/History,

Well I pretty much summed up how classes should work in my paragraph about science.

The Missing Link · 12-09-2004, 11:26 PM

The problem is that one man's trash is another man's treasure. Whereas you don't use anything beyond Algebra I, I consistently use Geometry (which SHOULD be a requirement just because it employs an entirely different methodology of thinking, and many people use angles), Algebra II, Trig, Calculus, and many things beyond that. Though I may be a mathematician of sorts, my actual work is computer science, but many fields require the expertise in many fields. However, I barely use history or economics at all in what I do, so a lot of it isn't all that significant to what I do.

A lot of the reason so much of everything is required is that, inevitably, we are expected to become "well-rounded" persons, persons that can be molded into whatever shape we deem ourselves to go. Specialisation is reserved for college and post-collegiate educations, whereas high school is merely the springboard for us to do that. Require a little bit of everything, and then have them develop their own specialties so that they can be exploited later on in life...

"There are some who call me... Link?"

"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
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***CaptHayfever*** · 12-10-2004, 11:21 AM

^^My friend, Geometry is quite likely the single most important math class you or anyone else will ever take.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

ocarinagirl · 12-10-2004, 01:40 PM

^^Yes.

^Also yes.

High school's purpose is to expose you to many different subject areas so you know what you want to do before you get into college. If you AREN'T exposed to, say, all the maths in high school, then when you get to college, you'll just be wasting your time trying to learn all of the other maths and essentially wasting your time at college. It would just be adding more Gen. Ed. classes. And that's never good.

And Geometry >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Algebra. Sure, YOU might be the man when it comes to algebra, but other people (such as myself) suck horribly at it. Geometry is just another means of solving the same problems. I need geometry. It sure as hell isn't optional.

ZIPPYDIPPY19 · 12-10-2004, 02:32 PM

C'mon, that test wasn't that difficult (even if we have diff. teachers). And Ana- and apart. That's how James Hux told me to memorize it and badda bing badda boom. It worked.

Cuz ya know, the chromatids get pulled apart, and, yeah...

Well it worked for me...

imported_Andrew · 12-10-2004, 08:23 PM

^ Heh, the fire drill today interupted the test so we all took our books and study guides outside.

I can understand the need for English, Foreign Language, Algebra, some Geometry, P.E. and History (for those who forget history are doomed to repeat it) but I still can never think of a situation outside of working in the subject for a living where knowing the steps of Kreb's Cycle is going to help me succeed in life.

Chlorophyl? More like bore-ophyl!

Dark Magus · 12-10-2004, 10:19 PM

I want to know when the hell I'm going to bother using electron configuration and the such in future years.

Beam Yosho the Drunkard · 12-10-2004, 10:58 PM

^Chemists. And probably more.

You can't make Ionic bonds with just any two+ elements, you know.

***Ace Mercury*** · 12-11-2004, 01:16 AM

So this thread begs the question "so what should be taught?" Or, perhaps nothing should be taught at all?

Prince Toad · 12-11-2004, 01:42 AM

I support the "apprentice" system. You learn what you need to know for a job you want, and you learn it goddamn well. Of course some basic stuff (through 7th or 8th grade) should still be taught so if you change your mind you're not screwed and you can still function in basic society, and standard high school and college education should still be available for those who want it, but if you know exactly what you want to be, then why bother with all the other stuff? I know I'm not going to be a mathematician, what do I care about trigonometry?

Hm... that's kind of like college, actually. Maybe what would be the best idea is to have high schools function much more like colleges-- you need a few core things and then the rest is up to you. Then college is available if you want. Similar to what we have now, but less required courses. Maybe there'd be a prerequisite workload, like you need to have x total number of credits and then one or two in core classes, but you could really focus a lot more on what you want to do, or if you don't know, then you can get a broad variety of knowledge. I'm pretty sure that this is impractical, or else someone would have implemented it, but it seems like a good idea to me.

[ December 11, 2004, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Prince Toad ]

Perrin Aybara · 12-11-2004, 02:47 AM

If school's not working for you, then it's your own dang fault. Heh.

Specialization is for college. Trust me, it gets better.

But high school is meant to be general. And that's good. EVERY person needs to learn the basics of Biology, Mathematics, Physics, ect. I don't care WHAT field you're in. High school is "meant" to be a high level of education. We can't have adults running around who know nothing about Biology, Math, or Physics. It's just sick.

Trust me. The stuff you're learning in your Biology, ect classes in High School is so basic and unspecific, it's funny. You really go into a TON more detail in the respective majors in college. If you hate the Krebs Cycle now, just don't concider going into Biology for college. I'm sure Biologists have entire classes devoted to the Krebs Cycle.

But the point is, the important thing isn't that you memorize stupid things like the electron transport chain or how covalent bonds work. The important thing is that you're introducted to these concepts so you know that these things EXIST. Everyone needs to be introduced to these basic scientific fields.-jay

Oh, and everyone needs to take Geometry. Everyone should take Algebra 2, too. And if I had it my way, everyone would be learning Calculus. There's a lot of good, basic concepts in Calculus that half the world is clueless about.

Heck more people should take the Partial Differential Equations class I'm taking now...heh. This is about as complex as application based math gets.

[ December 11, 2004, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

imported_ · 12-11-2004, 11:50 AM

^jay is so smrat

Yeah, seriously. From perhaps the moment I was conceived until about the 10th grade, I wanted to be a aerospace engineer (I didn't always know the word for it). This is somehting that would require assloads of math and physics. Oops! Too bad right around the 10th grade I decided I wanted to be a Spanish teacher. I can't imagine a more monumental change of course in terms what areas of study I would be pursuing. Now it's all about Spanish, but also English and History. And of course Teacher Ed. Point is, I'm glad you don't think you're gonna be a mathmetician now, but let's pretend five years from now you change your mind and OOPS! You're screwed. And even if you never change your mind (everyone pretty much to some degree) about what you want to do, as others have iterated, you need a well-rounded foundation.

The Missing Link · 12-11-2004, 01:40 PM

The "apprentice" system works really well in a lot of ways. It takes advantage of specialisation and such, and it really gets people moving along in a specific direction to continue going the way it's going.

The problem with "apprentincing" (to coin the word) is its very benefit, that it forces the system to go the way it's going. No "new" technology tends to come out of it, or perhaps rather at a very significantly reduced rate. Most technology that is being formed nowadays is the result of new pursuits--new ideologies constructed from multiple fields. Most of the richest new concepts out there take two fields and unify them together in a cohesive fashion. An apprentice system only encourages one direction of growth whereas our current system tries to give everyone as many building blocks as they can to make a bigger and better castle out of it.

Like, of all things, biology and computer science. The two concepts are completely worlds apart, almost nonsensical when placed in the same sentence, yet there's a new technology--bioinformatics--that uses biological principles within computer code to solve difficult mathematical problems and vice versa using computer software to emulate principles of biology to solve difficult biology problems.

And dear God... Jay going one step further in applied mathematics than a Computing Mathematics major? The world is going to end, although I guess I'll still be able to stop it (unlike Jay) by proving that the square root of 1 is both 1 and 4.

"There are some who call me... Link?"

"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

ocarinagirl · 12-11-2004, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaw's Ghoti:
Yeah, seriously. From perhaps the moment I was conceived until about the 10th grade, I wanted to be a aerospace engineer (I didn't always know the word for it). This is somehting that would require assloads of math and physics. Oops! Too bad right around the 10th grade I decided I wanted to be a Spanish teacher. I can't imagine a more monumental change of course in terms what areas of study I would be pursuing. Now it's all about Spanish, but also English and History. And of course Teacher Ed. Point is, I'm glad you don't think you're gonna be a mathmetician now, but let's pretend five years from now you change your mind and OOPS! You're screwed. And even if you never change your mind (everyone pretty much to some degree) about what you want to do, as others have iterated, you need a well-rounded foundation.

Exactly. Rarely does any child know what they want to do by the time they get to highschool. I've changed my career decisions so much during my life it was uncanny. Palentologist, archeologist, psychologist, marine biologist, veterinarian, writer, actor, webcomic artist (well, I still MIGHT do that...), the list went on until I finally decided to be an English teacher.

And you really expect a middle schooler do make that kind of decision? A middle schooler? Please... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Erdawn Il Deus · 12-11-2004, 03:26 PM

School? Worthless? This topic is bloody ridiculous.

Prince Toad · 12-11-2004, 03:37 PM

Not that I'm doubting you, Jay, but why the **** am I going to need to know geometric proofs when going about my everyday life? I don't intend to go into computer science or anything.

Perrin Aybara · 12-11-2004, 04:44 PM

Have you been reading our posts? Most people here agree that Geometry is useful for pretty much anything to do. And you can't look at it like "No one is ever going to ask me to solve the proof of why a triangle has 180 degrees in real life.", but the CONCEPTS you learn in Geometry are priceless. Simple geometry basics is something that everyone needs to have at least experienced once in their life. And the entire concept of proving things is so useful, it's insane to call it useless. The same concepts of proving geometric properties can be used to prove ANYTHING.

Quote:

Originally posted by The 404 Link:
And dear God... Jay going one step further in applied mathematics than a Computing Mathematics major? The world is going to end.

Well, I AM an Engineer, ya know. Applied Math and Physics is what we do.-jay

12-09-2004, 08:14 PM	#1
imported_Andrew Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Honestly, I don't understand why anyone would want to know or what higher authority thinks that knowing about cell respiration, centrioles and the G1 phase is important? And I know it will get worse in higher grades. I've been studying two hours for this worthless biology test, and I still can't tell you what happens during anaphase. cries I appreciated life even before I knew how it worked, let's leave it at that? It ain't broke, I don't care. I'm having an effin breakdown.

12-09-2004, 09:02 PM	#2
ocarinagirl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ehhh? What? Where am I?! Gender: Posts: 3,010 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You know, that's the exact sentiment that people used to have. In the Middle Ages. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Be thankful that you're getting an education at all. Ungrateful child.

12-09-2004, 09:35 PM	#3
Beam Yosho the Drunkard Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The oversized rock of Hawaii. Gender: Posts: 5,670 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts	If you want to be a...I derno, a human biologist, DNA scientist or whatever, cell respiration, centrioles and the G1 phase would be pretty important. ....Or maybe you'll go on "Who wants to be a Millionaire?" and this stuff would come up. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

12-09-2004, 09:37 PM	#4
Eagle Eye Diddy bops Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Gender: Posts: 15,014 Thanks: 1,616 Thanked 1,084 Times in 597 Posts	Okay, I understand all through Middle School but High School... PAUSE!!!! Algebra I is probably the only MAth Course you'll need after 7th Grade Math (you use ALG without noticing it) aside from that, Geo and ALG II and etc. should be optional courses for seniors, or college courses when you follow a certain path. Biology, Chemistry, all those others, yeah, one year, because in high school you don't know TOO much what you wanna do, so you need foundation if you ever change your mind to do something in that field English, whether I like it or not, is needed, reinforcement of the language Foriegn Language should ALWAYS be a requirement, it never hurts. In short: English, and Foreign Language are the only two EXTREMELY neccessary, along with maybe World Geography/History, Well I pretty much summed up how classes should work in my paragraph about science.

12-09-2004, 11:26 PM	#5
The Missing Link Professional Lurker Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Hyrule, Washington, US Gender: Posts: 17,128 Thanks: 405 Thanked 606 Times in 368 Posts	The problem is that one man's trash is another man's treasure. Whereas you don't use anything beyond Algebra I, I consistently use Geometry (which SHOULD be a requirement just because it employs an entirely different methodology of thinking, and many people use angles), Algebra II, Trig, Calculus, and many things beyond that. Though I may be a mathematician of sorts, my actual work is computer science, but many fields require the expertise in many fields. However, I barely use history or economics at all in what I do, so a lot of it isn't all that significant to what I do. A lot of the reason so much of everything is required is that, inevitably, we are expected to become "well-rounded" persons, persons that can be molded into whatever shape we deem ourselves to go. Specialisation is reserved for college and post-collegiate educations, whereas high school is merely the springboard for us to do that. Require a little bit of everything, and then have them develop their own specialties so that they can be exploited later on in life... "There are some who call me... Link?" "Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!) Zelda: The Grand Adventures \| Triforce MUCK ザ行方不明リンク悪いユウモアの賢人

12-10-2004, 11:21 AM	#6
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	^^My friend, Geometry is quite likely the single most important math class you or anyone else will ever take. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

12-10-2004, 01:40 PM	#7
ocarinagirl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ehhh? What? Where am I?! Gender: Posts: 3,010 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	^^Yes. ^Also yes. High school's purpose is to expose you to many different subject areas so you know what you want to do before you get into college. If you AREN'T exposed to, say, all the maths in high school, then when you get to college, you'll just be wasting your time trying to learn all of the other maths and essentially wasting your time at college. It would just be adding more Gen. Ed. classes. And that's never good. And Geometry >>>>>>>>>>>>&g t; Algebra. Sure, YOU might be the man when it comes to algebra, but other people (such as myself) suck horribly at it. Geometry is just another means of solving the same problems. I need geometry. It sure as hell isn't optional.

12-10-2004, 02:32 PM	#8
ZIPPYDIPPY19 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,665 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	C'mon, that test wasn't that difficult (even if we have diff. teachers). And Ana- and apart. That's how James Hux told me to memorize it and badda bing badda boom. It worked. Cuz ya know, the chromatids get pulled apart, and, yeah... Well it worked for me...

12-10-2004, 08:23 PM	#9
imported_Andrew Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	^ Heh, the fire drill today interupted the test so we all took our books and study guides outside. I can understand the need for English, Foreign Language, Algebra, some Geometry, P.E. and History (for those who forget history are doomed to repeat it) but I still can never think of a situation outside of working in the subject for a living where knowing the steps of Kreb's Cycle is going to help me succeed in life. Chlorophyl? More like bore-ophyl!

12-10-2004, 10:19 PM	#10
Dark Magus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Gender: Posts: 6,260 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I want to know when the hell I'm going to bother using electron configuration and the such in future years.

12-10-2004, 10:58 PM	#11
Beam Yosho the Drunkard Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The oversized rock of Hawaii. Gender: Posts: 5,670 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts	^Chemists. And probably more. You can't make Ionic bonds with just any two+ elements, you know.

12-11-2004, 01:16 AM	#12
*Ace Mercury* Marshmallow Knight ☆ Supermod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Southern Ontario Gender: Posts: 23,275 Thanks: 568 Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,582 Posts Blog Entries: 1	So this thread begs the question "so what should be taught?" Or, perhaps nothing should be taught at all?

12-11-2004, 01:42 AM	#13
Prince Toad Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,720 Thanks: 50 Thanked 65 Times in 56 Posts	I support the "apprentice" system. You learn what you need to know for a job you want, and you learn it goddamn well. Of course some basic stuff (through 7th or 8th grade) should still be taught so if you change your mind you're not screwed and you can still function in basic society, and standard high school and college education should still be available for those who want it, but if you know exactly what you want to be, then why bother with all the other stuff? I know I'm not going to be a mathematician, what do I care about trigonometry? Hm... that's kind of like college, actually. Maybe what would be the best idea is to have high schools function much more like colleges-- you need a few core things and then the rest is up to you. Then college is available if you want. Similar to what we have now, but less required courses. Maybe there'd be a prerequisite workload, like you need to have x total number of credits and then one or two in core classes, but you could really focus a lot more on what you want to do, or if you don't know, then you can get a broad variety of knowledge. I'm pretty sure that this is impractical, or else someone would have implemented it, but it seems like a good idea to me. [ December 11, 2004, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Prince Toad ]

12-11-2004, 02:47 AM	#14
Perrin Aybara Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Alone....so terribly alone... Some... where... out... there... dies Gender: Posts: 12,760 Thanks: 194 Thanked 504 Times in 235 Posts	If school's not working for you, then it's your own dang fault. Heh. Specialization is for college. Trust me, it gets better. But high school is meant to be general. And that's good. EVERY person needs to learn the basics of Biology, Mathematics, Physics, ect. I don't care WHAT field you're in. High school is "meant" to be a high level of education. We can't have adults running around who know nothing about Biology, Math, or Physics. It's just sick. Trust me. The stuff you're learning in your Biology, ect classes in High School is so basic and unspecific, it's funny. You really go into a TON more detail in the respective majors in college. If you hate the Krebs Cycle now, just don't concider going into Biology for college. I'm sure Biologists have entire classes devoted to the Krebs Cycle. But the point is, the important thing isn't that you memorize stupid things like the electron transport chain or how covalent bonds work. The important thing is that you're introducted to these concepts so you know that these things EXIST. Everyone needs to be introduced to these basic scientific fields.-jay Oh, and everyone needs to take Geometry. Everyone should take Algebra 2, too. And if I had it my way, everyone would be learning Calculus. There's a lot of good, basic concepts in Calculus that half the world is clueless about. Heck more people should take the Partial Differential Equations class I'm taking now...heh. This is about as complex as application based math gets. [ December 11, 2004, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: Perrin Aybara ]

12-11-2004, 11:50 AM	#15
imported_ Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	^jay is so smrat Yeah, seriously. From perhaps the moment I was conceived until about the 10th grade, I wanted to be a aerospace engineer (I didn't always know the word for it). This is somehting that would require assloads of math and physics. Oops! Too bad right around the 10th grade I decided I wanted to be a Spanish teacher. I can't imagine a more monumental change of course in terms what areas of study I would be pursuing. Now it's all about Spanish, but also English and History. And of course Teacher Ed. Point is, I'm glad you don't think you're gonna be a mathmetician now, but let's pretend five years from now you change your mind and OOPS! You're screwed. And even if you never change your mind (everyone pretty much to some degree) about what you want to do, as others have iterated, you need a well-rounded foundation.

12-11-2004, 01:40 PM	#16
The Missing Link Professional Lurker Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Hyrule, Washington, US Gender: Posts: 17,128 Thanks: 405 Thanked 606 Times in 368 Posts	The "apprentice" system works really well in a lot of ways. It takes advantage of specialisation and such, and it really gets people moving along in a specific direction to continue going the way it's going. The problem with "apprentincing" (to coin the word) is its very benefit, that it forces the system to go the way it's going. No "new" technology tends to come out of it, or perhaps rather at a very significantly reduced rate. Most technology that is being formed nowadays is the result of new pursuits--new ideologies constructed from multiple fields. Most of the richest new concepts out there take two fields and unify them together in a cohesive fashion. An apprentice system only encourages one direction of growth whereas our current system tries to give everyone as many building blocks as they can to make a bigger and better castle out of it. Like, of all things, biology and computer science. The two concepts are completely worlds apart, almost nonsensical when placed in the same sentence, yet there's a new technology--bioinformatics--that uses biological principles within computer code to solve difficult mathematical problems and vice versa using computer software to emulate principles of biology to solve difficult biology problems. And dear God... Jay going one step further in applied mathematics than a Computing Mathematics major? The world is going to end, although I guess I'll still be able to stop it (unlike Jay) by proving that the square root of 1 is both 1 and 4. "There are some who call me... Link?" "Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!) Zelda: The Grand Adventures \| Triforce MUCK ザ行方不明リンク悪いユウモアの賢人

12-11-2004, 03:26 PM	#18
Erdawn Il Deus Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Threading the jeweled thrones of earth under my sandalled feet Gender: Posts: 3,056 Thanks: 4 Thanked 47 Times in 41 Posts	School? Worthless? This topic is bloody ridiculous.

12-11-2004, 03:37 PM	#19
Prince Toad Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rookery Gender: Posts: 11,720 Thanks: 50 Thanked 65 Times in 56 Posts	Not that I'm doubting you, Jay, but why the **** am I going to need to know geometric proofs when going about my everyday life? I don't intend to go into computer science or anything.