Only 2 Years of High School?

[CaptHayfever]

I'd like to get some feedback on this article: Should Kids Be Able to Graduate After 10th Grade? - Yahoo! News

Should Kids Be Able to Graduate After 10th Grade?
By KATHLEEN KINGSBURY Kathleen Kingsbury – Fri Nov 7, 4:50 am ET

High school sophomores should be ready for college by age 16. That's the message from New Hampshire education officials, who announced plans Oct. 30 for a new rigorous state board of exams to be given to 10th graders. Students who pass will be prepared to move on to the state's community or technical colleges, skipping the last two years of high school.

Once implemented, the new battery of tests is expected to guarantee higher competency in core school subjects, lower dropout rates and free up millions of education dollars. Students may take the exams - which are modeled on existing AP or International Baccalaureate tests - as many times as they need to pass. Or those who want to go to a prestigious university may stay and finish the final two years, taking a second, more difficult set of exams senior year. "We want students who are ready to be able to move on to their higher education," says Lyonel Tracy, New Hampshire's Commissioner for Education. "And then we can focus even more attention on those kids who need more help to get there."

But can less schooling really lead to better-prepared students at an earlier age? Outside of the U.S., it's actually a far less radical notion than it sounds. Dozens of industrialized countries expect students to be college-ready by age 16, and those teenagers consistently outperform their American peers on international standardized tests. (See pictures of the college dorm room's evolution.)

With its new assessment system, New Hampshire is adopting a key recommendation of a blue-ribbon panel called the New Commission on Skills of the American Workforce. In 2006, the group issued a report called Tough Choices or Tough Times , a blueprint for how it believes the U.S. must dramatically overhaul education policies in order to maintain a globally competitive economy. "Forty years ago, the United States had the best educated workforce in the world," says William Brock, one of the commission's chairs and a former U.S. Secretary of Labor. "Now we're No. 10 and falling."

As more and more jobs head overseas, Brock and others on the commission can't stress enough how dire the need is for educational reform. "The nation is running out of time," he says.

New Hampshire's announcement comes as Utah and Massachusetts declared that they, too, plan to enact some of the commission's other proposals, such as universal Pre-K and better teacher pay and training. Still more states are expected to sign on in December. And the largest teacher union in the U.S., the National Education Association, is encouraging its affiliates to support such efforts.

Some reform advocates would like to see the report's testing proposals replace current No Child Left Behind legislation. "It makes accountability much more meaningful by stressing critical thinking and true mastery," says Tracy.

No date has been set for when New Hampshire will start administering the new set of exams, which have yet to be developed. But to achieve the goal of sending kids to college at 16, Tracy and his colleagues recognize preparation will have to start early. Nearly four years ago, New Hampshire began an initiative called Follow the Child. Starting practically from birth, educators are expected to chart children's educational progress year to year. In the future, this effort will be bolstered by formalized curricula that specify exactly what kids should know by the end of each grade level.

That should help minimize the need for review year to year. It will also bring New Hampshire's education framework much closer to what occurs in many high-performing European and Asian nations. "It's about defining what lessons students should master and then teaching to those points," says Marc Tucker, co-chair of the commission and president of the National Center for Education and the Economy in Washington. "Kids at every level will be taking tough courses and working hard."

Right now, Tucker argues, most American teenagers slide through high school, viewing it as a mandatory pit stop to hang out and socialize. Of those who do go to college, half attend community college. So Tucker's thinking is why not let them get started earlier? If that happened nationwide, he estimates the cost savings would add up to $60 billion a year. "All money that can be spent either on early childhood education or elsewhere," he says.

Critics of cutting high school short, however, worry that proposals such as New Hampshire's could exacerbate existing socioeconomic gaps. One key concern is whether test results, at age 16, are really valid enough to indicate if a child should go to university or instead head to a technical school - with the latter almost certainly guaranteeing lower future earning potential. "You know that the kids sent in that direction are going to be from low-income, less-educated families while wealthy parents won't permit it," says Iris Rotberg, a George Washington University education policy professor, who notes similar results in Europe and Asia. She predicts, in turn, that disparity will mean "an even more polarized higher education structure - and ultimately society - than we already have."

It's a charge that Tracy denies. "We're simply telling students it's okay to go at their own pace," he says. Especially if that pace is a little quicker than the status quo.

I'm not sure what I think about this. How about you?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[t3hDarkness]

I think they will be murdered by college culture.

[Robotazy]

Unfair

Why does all the good stuff happen when I'm done with it.

[SephirothKirby]

Hey, I think I'm pretty smart, and to be honest I haven't been doing all of my school work.

I skipped all the things I won't need at all in life.

I think if they adjust some things, and advance you a little faster through out the grades, they move you further faster and cut off the last two years.

[I am nobody]

Shouldn't we focus on giving students a good education before we focus on giving them a fast education?

[Jere]

Well i certanly have some oppinions but i want to hear more before i can make a statement.

But i have one thing to tell them: DON'T MOCK THE QUO THEY ARE THE BEST </anger> there we go back to your opinions people.

[ZeldaGirl]

^^Well said, sir.


Though, I do believe a good portion of high school probably COULD be skipped - several of my classes were a joke. But, that falls on making the quality of the education better.

[Deku Trii]

It's an intriguing idea. I enjoyed all 4 years of High School, though.

[Seeking Attention]

Aw lucky.

I want to skip two years of highschool!

[CaptHayfever]

I remember I only had about 3 classes in high school that I didn't want or need.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Metal Man]

I graduated from high school in two years.

I did all the work of four grades in two.

It ultimately would have been a waste of time to do all of those.

Two years would be great, because ultimately College is the only step which matters. Unless it's specifically high school for college prep. Then 4 years will be helpful... assuming the curriculum is up to spec.

Also, community college culture at least, didn't murder me. In fact, my 4-year peers were overwhelmed and I wasn't, as I had been used to doing far more work than they had...

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

It should be dependant on the individual, but that would open a whole can of nasty worms about "discrimination" or some such rubbish.

You are allowed to leave school in grade 10 here, and that is usually considered a high enough graduation to apply for university or other further education facilities. I don't know the specifics, because I'm a special case- I was homeschooled from grade 4, and while I continued learning until grade 12 (as usual, for schools here), the education department refused to acknowledge that my homeschooling completed grade 12. In fact, I didn't even receive an official certificate of graduation for grade 10, even though they approved my learning for the entire year and gave me a letter (different to the official certificate) to congratulate me on "completing" grade 10.

But that's still beside the point. I can't have a fully educated (lulz) opinion on the matter because I didn't actually go to highschool, so I don't know what they teach or how they teach it. I was still homeschooled until grade 12, but I was doing college-level work on some of my subjects, and on other subjects, I'd completed them in the years before and wasn't continuing regular study. I believe that some people will be ready for college before others, and I believe those people SHOULD have some way to actually progress in their education (if they want to) at a higher level, to suit their needs. What's the point in forcing someone to learn slower, just because it's the "average"?

Wouldn't it be better to let someone advance faster, and actually utilise their ability and desire to learn, rather than bog them down with slow and boring lessons?

I agree with ian. There should be focus on the quality of education, not how long it takes someone to learn it. If someone can complete their education faster, let them. If someone needs more time, then give it to them. Doesn't everyone "deserve a fair and equal education" or some such?

I'd also like to add that Australia recently had a severe tradesman shortage (builders, plumbers, electricians, etc) because of the unreasonable significance placed on going to university. Getting a degree isn't the only way to get a great job, and due to the tradesman shortage, people who were trained and working as a tradesman were getting paid as much as anyone with a uni degree (and often more). Of course, now there's getting a shortage in other sectors (like IT), since there was such a swing of people getting into trades rather than studying.

[Kargath]

Here in Victoria the legal minimum is age 15 and not any particular year level. You don't necessarily need to finish Year 10 before you're allowed to drop out.
I'm not sure what the WA situation is like, but here there is absolutely no way you'd get accepted into a university without completing Year 12. You simply wouldn't get the end-of-year statewide ranking that the universities use, nor would you be able to apply through VCAA to get in to any of them.
It's fine if you want to drop out at Year 10 if you want to go to TAFE (technical college for you US people), but that stuffs your chances of uni acceptance.
What you do depends on your career path. It doesn't make any sense for a plumber to go to uni, nor does it make sense for a chemical engineer to drop out before year 10.

When I was in school, I was used to being at the top of my classes most of the time. Would skipping a year or two have helped? I'm not sure. I did my full 12 years, but got a lot more in than other people, since I took many accelerated classes and filled the gaps those left.

The main problem with homeschooling is verifiability, I'd say.

There's nothing wrong with being a tradie - my cousin's a sparky and he earns at least double what I do.

[I am nobody]

Originally Posted by Kargath

The main problem with homeschooling is verifiability, I'd say.

A lot of states in the US require anyone who does it to submit work to the Education Board in order to confirm they're actually doing something.

Of course, the states that don't (like DE) get a lot of people that never put their kids in the system to make sure they don't learn about evolution or other religions. Not that they're going to get much worse of an education then they would have gotten in our dreadful public school system(45th or so nationwide), but they come out with unbelievably narrow views.

[Metal Man]

Yeah, in my program they had inspectors from the school board verify I was doing the work.

They always found my file quite strange, and would spend an hour or two each time trying to understand how I had done so much work in so little time.

If the quality of my schooling had been better, I would have been more than willing to do it in 4 years. Then I would know Calculus already! >.<

[Blake]

Well one of the problems with ending high school at 10th grade is unless you were born late in the year and went to school 'a year late' (such as myself), you're most likely not going to be able to legally drive yourself by junior year.

You would maybe have to take off the first semester of college. In addition, you can't work either unless your parents or friends are very reliable and can get you there and back.

Also, because I was a responsible person who didn't blow their paycheck away on a weekly basis, I began working in 10th grade and over one year allotted thousands of dollars for college(Northern minimum wage and time and a half on Sundays to even part time employees like myself at the time ). When I moved I got another job and worked 11th and 12th grade and saved some more. All that money I earned went towards college for two whole years before I had to even borrow a single student loan. I didn't go to the super expensive schools though, so that's why that money lasted.

Hmm, the more I think about it the more I think we should stick to 4 years of highschool.

[CaptHayfever]

Here you're allowed to drop out of school at age 16, and you can take a GED exam (for a grade-12 equivalency diploma) whenever you want after that point.
(My dad actually dropped out in 11th-grade, took the GED right away, & effectively got his diploma a year & a half before anyone else in his class, then went to community college.)

This thing they're talking about is different from that, though.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Originally Posted by Kargath

The main problem with homeschooling is verifiability, I'd say.

They send someone out to do assessments of the work you've completed, and what you have planned for the rest of the year. If they're satisfied with what you show them (and I too had people confused how I was doing so much in a short period of time, MM), they give you a letter stating you're approved to homeschool or that you've completed the year. *shrug*

[Kargath]

Did you do your exams in an official examination centre, SD?

[heh]

No. Just because your really smart for your age doesn't mean your smart enough.