Heisman goes to Troy Smith, World Still Does Not Care

Lurch1982 · 12-09-2006, 05:46 PM

Discuss.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-09-2006, 09:08 PM

He deserved it. Much more so that Brady "Manning" Quinn or Darren McFadden. And I'm saying this as a Michigan fan. You do know most of us are actually pulling for OSU in the title game right? -CSM

**John MarchCain** · 12-09-2006, 09:10 PM

^Yes we are, dammit Florida.

Lurch1982 · 12-10-2006, 12:04 PM

The only competition he really had would have been from Peterson from OU, buuuut that broken collarbone late in a blowout kinda squashed that.

Brady Quinn doesn't deserve it because he can't win the big game, similar to Peyton Manning (Quinn: 0-4 against USC, Blown out in bowls, etc)(Manning: 0-3 v. Florida with a loss coming off the bench his freshman year, two time Heisman loser, and blown out by Nebraska in the OB his senior year).

Smith is a good college QB, don't think he'll transition to the pros, especially if he gets stuck on the brownies.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-10-2006, 01:27 PM

^I think he will. Troy Smith seems to be the next Tom Brady (not so imprssive looking statwise, but can win the big game easily). I mean, look at Vince Young this year. He's not the best QB statwise, but at least he's winning games (he beat BOTH Mannings!) Frankly, that's what I want to see in a QB. Somehow I feel Brady Quinn will continue to produce big numbers in the regular season and lose bigtime in the postseason. I don't think that will happen with Troy Smith, as he always seems to pull it together.

Also, every time Brady Quinn played someone good this year, he lost. Also, he hasn't won a Bowl Game (although this is actually combined with the fact that the Notre Dame organization doesn't win bowls). -CSM

**John MarchCain** · 12-10-2006, 01:47 PM

Notre Dame's bowl bid could have gone to a team more deserving of it.
You shouldn't be in a BCS game if you can't keep up with the good teams.

Lurch1982 · 12-10-2006, 02:25 PM

Well, how good will Troy be if/when he gets picked by one of those teams with no offensive pieces in place ala Cleveland? Keep in mind tOSU has really good WRs and a killer line. How well would he do if he went to the lineless wonder of Oakland? Plus, I think there's going to be a bigger developmental time for Smith, and he may do well to study behind someone for a year. Quinn OTOH is a pro system QB ala Peyton Manning, Brady, etc., and I could see him getting moderate success in year one in the right system. Peyton's proved that you don't need to win big games in college to have success in the pros (yes he is successful even if he hasn't won a super bowl) just as much as many heisman players before Troy have proven that success in College /= anything in the pros.

**Crazyswordsman** · 12-10-2006, 10:56 PM

^Desmond Howard and Eddie George both went on successful careers.

And you haven't considered ND's strength of schedule and lack of quality defenses they played. When they played Michigan and USC, they lost. Michigan in particular completely showed that Brady Quinn isn't ready.

And who knows where Troy Smith will go (and Cleveland has Braylon Edwards, so it's not like Cleveland has nobody). But Troy Smith won't win in Cleveland or Oakland not because of Troy Smith, but because of Cleveland and Oakland. He'd probably shine in a West Coast system. -CSM

Lurch1982 · 12-11-2006, 06:31 PM

Last 15 years for Heisman winners:
1991: Desmond Howard (good career)
1992: Gino Torretta (7th round pick, never played)
1993: Charlie Ward (Went to the NBA)
1994: Rashaan Salaam (Garbage)
1995: Eddie George (good runner)
1996: Wuerffel (scrub)
1997: Woodson (Above average at best)
1998: Ricky Williams (wasted potential)
1999: Ron Dayne (lardass scrub)
2000: Weinke (scrub)
2001: Crouch (Canadian Football League, never caught on in the real thing and they tried to push him to WR)
2002: Palmer (good so far, still too young to tell )
2003: Jason White (destroyed knees)
2004: Leinart (too early to tell)
2005: Bush (too early to tell)
2006: Troy Smith (to early to tell)

Um yeah. Recent Heisman winners haven't really panned out in the pros. Even counting Woodson and Palmer, you only have four players (Woodson, Palmer, Howard and George) worth a crap that didn't wash out or aren't too young to judge.

Main thing is Brady Quinn was working out of an NFL playbook, so he logistically shouldn't have the issues many young QBs have when they come from 30 page playbooks to 300 page playbooks. Weis for all his faults runs an NFL offense out of ND, and while he may not be able to ever show up (or even prove that he's better than Ty), his players have a better mindset going into the pros than players from almost every other program.

After watching Young run that touchdown in against Houston, I'm going with a 0% chance of Cleveland passing on Troy Smith.

12-09-2006, 05:46 PM	#1
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,451.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,176.14 Donate	Heisman goes to Troy Smith, World Still Does Not Care Discuss.

12-09-2006, 09:08 PM	#2
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,584 Thanks: 633 Thanked 471 Times in 311 Posts Points: 167,312.15 Bank: 77,775.54 Total Points: 245,087.69 Donate	He deserved it. Much more so that Brady "Manning" Quinn or Darren McFadden. And I'm saying this as a Michigan fan. You do know most of us are actually pulling for OSU in the title game right? -CSM

12-09-2006, 09:10 PM	#3
John MarchCain 72 and still going strong Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Arizona Gender: Posts: 11,364 Thanks: 914 Thanked 391 Times in 268 Posts Points: 1,129.00 Bank: 310,855.30 Total Points: 311,984.30 Donate	^Yes we are, dammit Florida.

12-10-2006, 12:04 PM	#4
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,451.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,176.14 Donate	The only competition he really had would have been from Peterson from OU, buuuut that broken collarbone late in a blowout kinda squashed that. Brady Quinn doesn't deserve it because he can't win the big game, similar to Peyton Manning (Quinn: 0-4 against USC, Blown out in bowls, etc)(Manning: 0-3 v. Florida with a loss coming off the bench his freshman year, two time Heisman loser, and blown out by Nebraska in the OB his senior year). Smith is a good college QB, don't think he'll transition to the pros, especially if he gets stuck on the brownies.

12-10-2006, 01:27 PM	#5
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,584 Thanks: 633 Thanked 471 Times in 311 Posts Points: 167,312.15 Bank: 77,775.54 Total Points: 245,087.69 Donate	^I think he will. Troy Smith seems to be the next Tom Brady (not so imprssive looking statwise, but can win the big game easily). I mean, look at Vince Young this year. He's not the best QB statwise, but at least he's winning games (he beat BOTH Mannings!) Frankly, that's what I want to see in a QB. Somehow I feel Brady Quinn will continue to produce big numbers in the regular season and lose bigtime in the postseason. I don't think that will happen with Troy Smith, as he always seems to pull it together. Also, every time Brady Quinn played someone good this year, he lost. Also, he hasn't won a Bowl Game (although this is actually combined with the fact that the Notre Dame organization doesn't win bowls). -CSM

12-10-2006, 01:47 PM	#6
John MarchCain 72 and still going strong Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Arizona Gender: Posts: 11,364 Thanks: 914 Thanked 391 Times in 268 Posts Points: 1,129.00 Bank: 310,855.30 Total Points: 311,984.30 Donate	Notre Dame's bowl bid could have gone to a team more deserving of it. You shouldn't be in a BCS game if you can't keep up with the good teams.

12-10-2006, 02:25 PM	#7
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,451.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,176.14 Donate	Well, how good will Troy be if/when he gets picked by one of those teams with no offensive pieces in place ala Cleveland? Keep in mind tOSU has really good WRs and a killer line. How well would he do if he went to the lineless wonder of Oakland? Plus, I think there's going to be a bigger developmental time for Smith, and he may do well to study behind someone for a year. Quinn OTOH is a pro system QB ala Peyton Manning, Brady, etc., and I could see him getting moderate success in year one in the right system. Peyton's proved that you don't need to win big games in college to have success in the pros (yes he is successful even if he hasn't won a super bowl) just as much as many heisman players before Troy have proven that success in College /= anything in the pros.

12-10-2006, 10:56 PM	#8
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,584 Thanks: 633 Thanked 471 Times in 311 Posts Points: 167,312.15 Bank: 77,775.54 Total Points: 245,087.69 Donate	^Desmond Howard and Eddie George both went on successful careers. And you haven't considered ND's strength of schedule and lack of quality defenses they played. When they played Michigan and USC, they lost. Michigan in particular completely showed that Brady Quinn isn't ready. And who knows where Troy Smith will go (and Cleveland has Braylon Edwards, so it's not like Cleveland has nobody). But Troy Smith won't win in Cleveland or Oakland not because of Troy Smith, but because of Cleveland and Oakland. He'd probably shine in a West Coast system. -CSM

12-11-2006, 06:31 PM	#9
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,451.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,176.14 Donate	Last 15 years for Heisman winners: 1991: Desmond Howard (good career) 1992: Gino Torretta (7th round pick, never played) 1993: Charlie Ward (Went to the NBA) 1994: Rashaan Salaam (Garbage) 1995: Eddie George (good runner) 1996: Wuerffel (scrub) 1997: Woodson (Above average at best) 1998: Ricky Williams (wasted potential) 1999: Ron Dayne (lardass scrub) 2000: Weinke (scrub) 2001: Crouch (Canadian Football League, never caught on in the real thing and they tried to push him to WR) 2002: Palmer (good so far, still too young to tell ) 2003: Jason White (destroyed knees) 2004: Leinart (too early to tell) 2005: Bush (too early to tell) 2006: Troy Smith (to early to tell) Um yeah. Recent Heisman winners haven't really panned out in the pros. Even counting Woodson and Palmer, you only have four players (Woodson, Palmer, Howard and George) worth a crap that didn't wash out or aren't too young to judge. Main thing is Brady Quinn was working out of an NFL playbook, so he logistically shouldn't have the issues many young QBs have when they come from 30 page playbooks to 300 page playbooks. Weis for all his faults runs an NFL offense out of ND, and while he may not be able to ever show up (or even prove that he's better than Ty), his players have a better mindset going into the pros than players from almost every other program. After watching Young run that touchdown in against Houston, I'm going with a 0% chance of Cleveland passing on Troy Smith.