MLB offseason topic

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-12-2007, 02:09 PM

Figured this forum could use one, mostly because I needed a place to talk about the Astros selling the farm for Tejada.

Jesus they gave up a lot for a position they weren't really hurting for.

Platinum · 12-12-2007, 02:19 PM

thats what happens, and he won't do well

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-12-2007, 05:45 PM

He'll do just fine offensively. His "declining" numbers are still great for his position, and he hits most of his stuff to left where the Astros have 315' home runs. It's just that we seriously overpaid for the upgrade that we're getting over Everett when you consider runs saved + runs created.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-14-2007, 09:04 PM

Freakin' sweet! The Astros just traded for Valverde. It looks like Wade thinks he can win this thing this year. If Wandy can pitch like he does at home on the road, he could be a viable #2 pitcher, and we have a team to be reckoned with.

Maximum Spider · 12-14-2007, 09:07 PM

Detroit signed Miguel Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis. As much as I hate to say it, they are the next world series champions. Chilling to think they lost 119 games about four years ago.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-14-2007, 09:47 PM

Heh, yeah, the Tigers appear to be the best team in baseball. I like the Astros chances in the NL, though.

Lurch1982 · 12-15-2007, 04:34 AM

Here's the Astros starting Rotation:

Oswalt, ?, ?, ?, ?.
Here's their bullpen: ?, ?, Valverde

Hitting? I'll take anyone that pulls to left in that stadium. Lee's proven. The remainders are underachievers or not worth mentioning. Tejada may or may not be productive. If anything, he should stay healthy (dude was #1 in consecutive games among actives). Problem is being mentioned in that whole, ya know Mitchell Report thing. Regardless of the overall worth of it, if they would have held off for a single day they could have gotten him at a better price and not had to give up the farm. Valverde is good, but I'm not sold on him performing well or being in the situations to make the saves in four out of the five games in a week.

I think they overpaid for Kaz Matsui and I'm not convinced on him being good. Might be good in the field, but I'm fully expecting him to be an offensive black hole in that stadium. Expect a bunch of pop-outs in the gaps.

I think they got ripped off for Tejada (and Valverde). Gave up too much that was close to being ready. They don't seem set up to make any run because they don't have the arms to do it. Then there's always the chance Tejada gets pinged for a steroid suspension by Selig.

Even with the problems, they may have a shot to be close enough to cause damage. Pirates are out for next year in August of the prior year, and will be until they get new ownership. The Cards just gave up Edmonds (which seriously, I pinged Rolen to go first), so they might be waiving the white flag for next year and letting the kids play. Cubs added a Japanese star to the outfield. They have solid pitching in the rotation, and the bullpen was steady down the stretch last year. Lineup has some possible holes in it, but they have a solid 1-4 set up. Reds are the Reds. They might start off strong or finish strong, but they'll half-ass half the season and wind up in 3rd or 4th place well out of the wild card. Brewers? God knows. They might stick around, but I don't see their pitching holding up (especially the bullpen). And when these players start going up for salary arbitration and new deals? Expect that miserably cheapassed franchise to deal them out to teams that'll pay out.

Astros are going the right way, but they really need pitching to be serious contenders. As it stands, they might be making noise and could keep someone out of the playoffs, but I don't see them going in.

Ironic that the Tigers are spending about the same amount of dollars as they had losses a few years ago. Amazing what happens when you get ownership dedicated to bringing in talent and winning.

**Perrin Aybara** · 12-15-2007, 10:41 AM

Thanks for taking Tejada from us.

Anyway, it looks like the O's will likely trade their only other two big names, Bedard and Roberts.

It will be tough to see Bedard traded though... Baltimore has waited patiently for nearly a decade for a true ace in their pitching staff after Mussina left. And now that they finally have one... It's depressing...

-jay

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-15-2007, 04:36 PM

Was I alone in reading that every GM got a copy of the Mitchell Report a day in advance? Surely someone else knows that.

The Astros don't have much star power in their rotation, sure, but Backe and Sampson are both fine pitchers, and Wandy is good, but only in Minute Maid for some reason. It's really the only glaring weakness on the team, though. Given the weak FA market for SPs, I imagine it's the reason Wade's been stocking the team with middle relievers for some time now.

Any batting order that has Hunter Pence, Lance Berkman, Carlos Lee, and Miguel Tejada batting in a row is fine by me. Wigginton is a solid hitter as well. Towles is probably an upgrade over Brad "Double Play" Ausmus, and having a true leadoff guy again will be nice.

The Astros probably paid too much for Matsui, but it's not like the Cubs did any better agreeing to pay 48 million to a guy who's essentially been playing AAA ball.

Maynard James Keenan · 12-15-2007, 05:17 PM

Cabrera and Willis. *drool*

Hopefully this year the Tigres can have a good full season instead of starting out great, and falling apart after the All Star Break.

Lurch1982 · 12-15-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pear Trii

Was I alone in reading that every GM got a copy of the Mitchell Report a day in advance? Surely someone else knows that.

The Astros don't have much star power in their rotation, sure, but Backe and Sampson are both fine pitchers, and Wandy is good, but only in Minute Maid for some reason. It's really the only glaring weakness on the team, though. Given the weak FA market for SPs, I imagine it's the reason Wade's been stocking the team with middle relievers for some time now.

Any batting order that has Hunter Pence, Lance Berkman, Carlos Lee, and Miguel Tejada batting in a row is fine by me. Wigginton is a solid hitter as well. Towles is probably an upgrade over Brad "Double Play" Ausmus, and having a true leadoff guy again will be nice.

The Astros probably paid too much for Matsui, but it's not like the Cubs did any better agreeing to pay 48 million to a guy who's essentially been playing AAA ball.

If they got the Mitchell Report the day prior (which IIRC only the commish got it early), they're dumb for sending that much for a listed guy.

You can't be confident throwing anyone but Oswalt out on the mound. And it isn't like there hasn't been a trade market for starters (Haren, Garland, Willis already moved with Santana, Berdard, Mussina, and multiple others on the block).

Sorry, lineup is Berkman, Lee and Tejada. Anyone else is unproven or not worth mentioning. I wouldn't be afraid of pitching at anyone but Lee, Berkman, and Tejada (Even then, only Lee terrifies me...Berkman and Tejada not so much).

Cubs can afford to spend 48 million on a guy dominating in the J-leagues because, ya know, they won the division and they're stocked out of the ass with pitching and young players, not to mention the 1-4 is pretty much set in their lineup. Your team sold off a chunk of the farm for an alleged juicer and a closer that may not get save opportunities.

Again, I can't consider a team contenders when they only have one starter I'd trust in any clutch game. They're above the Pirates in that respect, but the Reds, Cards, Brewers and Cubs all have at least 2, if not 3 starters I wouldn't be afraid to hand the ball to in a clutch situation.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-15-2007, 11:47 PM

I'm pretty sure they just didn't care that Tejada would be on the list. You'd have to be pretty naive to think the Astros FO had no idea Tejada had been linked to steroids. Oh, and you'll learn to be afraid of Hunter Pence soon enough. Only thing between him and having proved himself is time.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Astros picked up another SP before the season starts though. I'm guessing Silva, unless the talk of Clemens playing one more last season to go out on a higher note than the Mitchell Report has any merit.

Lurch1982 · 12-16-2007, 01:20 AM

We'll see how Hunter does with a scouting report on him. Francour looked awesome when he first broke in. Then everyone figured out he swings at everything thrown at him and will chunk the bat at three straight garbage pitches.

If they make a SP move, they might be in a good position to last late. Really though, they have to be running out of players to trade after the last two. I'm not sure they could meet the price on even Silva. And Clemens? What the hell good is he if he's not coming in until June? You could be long out by that point. And on a side note: say what you want about Barroid and how he deserves an *, dude at least attempts to play a full season on his gimp knees.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-16-2007, 02:01 PM

Silva is a FA, but you're right about us being just about out of prospects. I'd be more worried if Wade wasn't the one who drafted Hamels, Rollins, Utley, and Howard.

If we do sign Clemens (getting ahead of myself here) I doubt we'd be kissing his ass as much this year.

Darunia00 · 12-19-2007, 08:00 AM

The Astros are so far away from contending even after this move, it's mind-boggling. They have no depth on the mound and an aging middle of the lineup. I have a crowning suspicion they might have overpaid for Tejada and it will come back to bite them hard in a few years when he, Derek Lee, and Berkman really start to show the proverbial length of their teeth.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-19-2007, 02:04 PM

Yeah, it'll hurt the Astros real bad when Derek Lee starts showing his age. But no, you sound like you know what your talking about, really.

Darunia00 · 12-22-2007, 04:21 PM

Eff, my bad. Meant Carlos Lee. Feelings are still the same on the trade though, Houston needs alot more than Tejada to become a player in the Central. Milwaukee will be better after learning how to finish a season (assuming Ned Yost also learned this lesson), the Cubs will be competitive, and Cincy might be the dark horse of the division (assuming they can pick up Bedard and Dusty Baker doesn't drive the pitching staff into the ground). The Tejada move neither rebuilds the Astros ballclub nor puts them over the proverbail edge and into contending status. And yes, Tejada and Berkman and El Caballo will only get older and more expensive. Just one man's opinion.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-22-2007, 06:36 PM

Really, it doesn't take much to compete in the NL Central, and the Astros have improved on just about all fronts of the game. The only thing the Astros are really missing is a second exceptional starting pitcher (and besides Jennings, the rest of the Astros rotation behind Oswalt was at least adequate). Berkman and Tejada are both in their early thirties (how old is Lee?) and Tejada's only on board for two years now anyway.

That said, I'd say we probably overpaid for Tejada, but I'm just fine with overpaying for a great player. Beats the hell out of overpaying for mediocrity.

Lurch1982 · 12-23-2007, 09:41 PM

C. Lee is 31, I think closer to 32.

Adequate is having no other starter having a .500 or better record? On what planet is that the case? The two other guys with 30+ starts--Wandy Rodreguez and Woody Williams--were 9-13 and 8-15 respectively with ERAs of 4.58 and 5.27 respectively. The ERAs would be great if this were the AL East. But this is the NL Central, where only one team put up runs. Seriously. The Stros have an awful rotation past Oswalt, and their bullpen is even worse save one guy that may or may not ever get Save Opps. There's no way to get around it, that is probably the second-worst rotation in the division and has remained as such.

Miggy's been on a slight decline since leaving Oakland, and apparently the O's have thought he's been overpaid since jamming him with that massive contract that they were actively shopping him for 2 seasons. His power numbers are suspect, especially with the allegations. His average is good, but may not be enough in Minute Maid with the field dimensions. You'd hope he's the guy that can pop 30 HRs and bat over .315, but you don't know, especially coming off a season where he injured his hand. I'd like him on my team, but probably not at the cost of half-a-prospect list.

And then you keep coming back to the massive hole in the rotation, massive hole in the bullpen, and giant question-marks outside of L. Berkman, C. Lee and Miggy.

That becomes a problem when you're facing a Cubs rotation and bullpen that's only gotten better, a Brewer core that's gained experience, the Cardinals with their decent starting rotation and two good pitchers and the Reds with their, well, little-league stadium dimensions and solid 1-2 pitchers with a passable 3.

Barring the NL Central catching the injury bug (again), I don't see Houston outlasting anyone but the Pirates. Pitching ultimately wins, and Houston don't have anything in that department.

**Dr. Horrible** · 12-24-2007, 01:38 AM

What's so bad about the Astros bullpen? I like Brocail and Villarreal.

Woody Williams is just bad and I won't try to defend him. He's a #5 at best. The thing about Wandy is that he could be a solid #2 if he could pitch on the road anything like he does at home. How a guy has a 2.94 ERA at a hitter's park like Minute Maid and then a 6.37 everywhere else doesn't make any sense. And it will be nice to have Backe back.

Say it all you want, you won't convince me Pence is a question mark. I'd bet good money he has a better season than Fukudome.

If the Astros come in any lower than 3rd in the NL Central, I'll be very surprised.

12-12-2007, 05:45 PM	#3
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	He'll do just fine offensively. His "declining" numbers are still great for his position, and he hits most of his stuff to left where the Astros have 315' home runs. It's just that we seriously overpaid for the upgrade that we're getting over Everett when you consider runs saved + runs created. Last edited by Deku Trii; 12-12-2007 at 06:05 PM.

12-12-2007, 02:09 PM	#1
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	MLB offseason topic Figured this forum could use one, mostly because I needed a place to talk about the Astros selling the farm for Tejada. Jesus they gave up a lot for a position they weren't really hurting for.

12-12-2007, 02:19 PM	#2
Platinum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wv Gender: Posts: 1,369 Thanks: 48 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts Points: 4,768.24 Bank: 24,850.95 Total Points: 29,619.19 Donate	thats what happens, and he won't do well

12-14-2007, 09:04 PM	#4
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	Freakin' sweet! The Astros just traded for Valverde. It looks like Wade thinks he can win this thing this year. If Wandy can pitch like he does at home on the road, he could be a viable #2 pitcher, and we have a team to be reckoned with.

12-14-2007, 09:07 PM	#5
Maximum Spider Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: You can kill WEEGEE (Or whatever) but you can't kill LUigi. Gender: Posts: 1,624 Thanks: 0 Thanked 83 Times in 62 Posts Points: 8,778.86 Bank: 1.71 Total Points: 8,780.57 Donate	Detroit signed Miguel Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis. As much as I hate to say it, they are the next world series champions. Chilling to think they lost 119 games about four years ago. Last edited by VWF_champion; 03-31-2008 at 10:09 AM.

12-14-2007, 09:47 PM	#6
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	Heh, yeah, the Tigers appear to be the best team in baseball. I like the Astros chances in the NL, though.

12-15-2007, 04:34 AM	#7
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,439.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,164.14 Donate	Here's the Astros starting Rotation: Oswalt, ?, ?, ?, ?. Here's their bullpen: ?, ?, Valverde Hitting? I'll take anyone that pulls to left in that stadium. Lee's proven. The remainders are underachievers or not worth mentioning. Tejada may or may not be productive. If anything, he should stay healthy (dude was #1 in consecutive games among actives). Problem is being mentioned in that whole, ya know Mitchell Report thing. Regardless of the overall worth of it, if they would have held off for a single day they could have gotten him at a better price and not had to give up the farm. Valverde is good, but I'm not sold on him performing well or being in the situations to make the saves in four out of the five games in a week. I think they overpaid for Kaz Matsui and I'm not convinced on him being good. Might be good in the field, but I'm fully expecting him to be an offensive black hole in that stadium. Expect a bunch of pop-outs in the gaps. I think they got ripped off for Tejada (and Valverde). Gave up too much that was close to being ready. They don't seem set up to make any run because they don't have the arms to do it. Then there's always the chance Tejada gets pinged for a steroid suspension by Selig. Even with the problems, they may have a shot to be close enough to cause damage. Pirates are out for next year in August of the prior year, and will be until they get new ownership. The Cards just gave up Edmonds (which seriously, I pinged Rolen to go first), so they might be waiving the white flag for next year and letting the kids play. Cubs added a Japanese star to the outfield. They have solid pitching in the rotation, and the bullpen was steady down the stretch last year. Lineup has some possible holes in it, but they have a solid 1-4 set up. Reds are the Reds. They might start off strong or finish strong, but they'll half-ass half the season and wind up in 3rd or 4th place well out of the wild card. Brewers? God knows. They might stick around, but I don't see their pitching holding up (especially the bullpen). And when these players start going up for salary arbitration and new deals? Expect that miserably cheapassed franchise to deal them out to teams that'll pay out. Astros are going the right way, but they really need pitching to be serious contenders. As it stands, they might be making noise and could keep someone out of the playoffs, but I don't see them going in. Ironic that the Tigers are spending about the same amount of dollars as they had losses a few years ago. Amazing what happens when you get ownership dedicated to bringing in talent and winning.

12-15-2007, 10:41 AM	#8
Perrin Aybara LLLUUUCCCCCCAAA!!! Ban HotD Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Alone....so terribly alone... Some... where... out... there... dies Gender: Posts: 11,888 Thanks: 191 Thanked 431 Times in 204 Posts Points: 47,259.42 Bank: 263,453.38 Total Points: 310,712.80 Donate	Thanks for taking Tejada from us. Anyway, it looks like the O's will likely trade their only other two big names, Bedard and Roberts. It will be tough to see Bedard traded though... Baltimore has waited patiently for nearly a decade for a true ace in their pitching staff after Mussina left. And now that they finally have one... It's depressing... -jay

12-15-2007, 04:36 PM	#9
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	Was I alone in reading that every GM got a copy of the Mitchell Report a day in advance? Surely someone else knows that. The Astros don't have much star power in their rotation, sure, but Backe and Sampson are both fine pitchers, and Wandy is good, but only in Minute Maid for some reason. It's really the only glaring weakness on the team, though. Given the weak FA market for SPs, I imagine it's the reason Wade's been stocking the team with middle relievers for some time now. Any batting order that has Hunter Pence, Lance Berkman, Carlos Lee, and Miguel Tejada batting in a row is fine by me. Wigginton is a solid hitter as well. Towles is probably an upgrade over Brad "Double Play" Ausmus, and having a true leadoff guy again will be nice. The Astros probably paid too much for Matsui, but it's not like the Cubs did any better agreeing to pay 48 million to a guy who's essentially been playing AAA ball.

12-15-2007, 05:17 PM	#10
Maynard James Keenan Cooler than you and you **ing know it. Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Somewhere, being **ing awesome. Gender: Posts: 12,537 Thanks: 690 Thanked 1,144 Times in 770 Posts Blog Entries: 15 Points: 4,193.56 Bank: 36,453.89 Total Points: 40,647.45 Donate	Cabrera and Willis. drool Hopefully this year the Tigres can have a good full season instead of starting out great, and falling apart after the All Star Break.

12-15-2007, 11:47 PM	#12
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	I'm pretty sure they just didn't care that Tejada would be on the list. You'd have to be pretty naive to think the Astros FO had no idea Tejada had been linked to steroids. Oh, and you'll learn to be afraid of Hunter Pence soon enough. Only thing between him and having proved himself is time. I wouldn't be surprised if the Astros picked up another SP before the season starts though. I'm guessing Silva, unless the talk of Clemens playing one more last season to go out on a higher note than the Mitchell Report has any merit.

12-16-2007, 01:20 AM	#13
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,439.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,164.14 Donate	We'll see how Hunter does with a scouting report on him. Francour looked awesome when he first broke in. Then everyone figured out he swings at everything thrown at him and will chunk the bat at three straight garbage pitches. If they make a SP move, they might be in a good position to last late. Really though, they have to be running out of players to trade after the last two. I'm not sure they could meet the price on even Silva. And Clemens? What the hell good is he if he's not coming in until June? You could be long out by that point. And on a side note: say what you want about Barroid and how he deserves an *, dude at least attempts to play a full season on his gimp knees.

12-16-2007, 02:01 PM	#14
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	Silva is a FA, but you're right about us being just about out of prospects. I'd be more worried if Wade wasn't the one who drafted Hamels, Rollins, Utley, and Howard. If we do sign Clemens (getting ahead of myself here) I doubt we'd be kissing his ass as much this year.

12-19-2007, 08:00 AM	#15
Darunia00 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Boston Gender: Posts: 4,316 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts Points: 2,741.40 Bank: 653.27 Total Points: 3,394.67 Donate	The Astros are so far away from contending even after this move, it's mind-boggling. They have no depth on the mound and an aging middle of the lineup. I have a crowning suspicion they might have overpaid for Tejada and it will come back to bite them hard in a few years when he, Derek Lee, and Berkman really start to show the proverbial length of their teeth.

12-19-2007, 02:04 PM	#16
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	Yeah, it'll hurt the Astros real bad when Derek Lee starts showing his age. But no, you sound like you know what your talking about, really.

12-22-2007, 04:21 PM	#17
Darunia00 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Boston Gender: Posts: 4,316 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts Points: 2,741.40 Bank: 653.27 Total Points: 3,394.67 Donate	Eff, my bad. Meant Carlos Lee. Feelings are still the same on the trade though, Houston needs alot more than Tejada to become a player in the Central. Milwaukee will be better after learning how to finish a season (assuming Ned Yost also learned this lesson), the Cubs will be competitive, and Cincy might be the dark horse of the division (assuming they can pick up Bedard and Dusty Baker doesn't drive the pitching staff into the ground). The Tejada move neither rebuilds the Astros ballclub nor puts them over the proverbail edge and into contending status. And yes, Tejada and Berkman and El Caballo will only get older and more expensive. Just one man's opinion.

12-22-2007, 06:36 PM	#18
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	Really, it doesn't take much to compete in the NL Central, and the Astros have improved on just about all fronts of the game. The only thing the Astros are really missing is a second exceptional starting pitcher (and besides Jennings, the rest of the Astros rotation behind Oswalt was at least adequate). Berkman and Tejada are both in their early thirties (how old is Lee?) and Tejada's only on board for two years now anyway. That said, I'd say we probably overpaid for Tejada, but I'm just fine with overpaying for a great player. Beats the hell out of overpaying for mediocrity.

12-23-2007, 09:41 PM	#19
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,439.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,164.14 Donate	C. Lee is 31, I think closer to 32. Adequate is having no other starter having a .500 or better record? On what planet is that the case? The two other guys with 30+ starts--Wandy Rodreguez and Woody Williams--were 9-13 and 8-15 respectively with ERAs of 4.58 and 5.27 respectively. The ERAs would be great if this were the AL East. But this is the NL Central, where only one team put up runs. Seriously. The Stros have an awful rotation past Oswalt, and their bullpen is even worse save one guy that may or may not ever get Save Opps. There's no way to get around it, that is probably the second-worst rotation in the division and has remained as such. Miggy's been on a slight decline since leaving Oakland, and apparently the O's have thought he's been overpaid since jamming him with that massive contract that they were actively shopping him for 2 seasons. His power numbers are suspect, especially with the allegations. His average is good, but may not be enough in Minute Maid with the field dimensions. You'd hope he's the guy that can pop 30 HRs and bat over .315, but you don't know, especially coming off a season where he injured his hand. I'd like him on my team, but probably not at the cost of half-a-prospect list. And then you keep coming back to the massive hole in the rotation, massive hole in the bullpen, and giant question-marks outside of L. Berkman, C. Lee and Miggy. That becomes a problem when you're facing a Cubs rotation and bullpen that's only gotten better, a Brewer core that's gained experience, the Cardinals with their decent starting rotation and two good pitchers and the Reds with their, well, little-league stadium dimensions and solid 1-2 pitchers with a passable 3. Barring the NL Central catching the injury bug (again), I don't see Houston outlasting anyone but the Pirates. Pitching ultimately wins, and Houston don't have anything in that department.

12-24-2007, 01:38 AM	#20
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,787 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,644.82 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,502.60 Donate	What's so bad about the Astros bullpen? I like Brocail and Villarreal. Woody Williams is just bad and I won't try to defend him. He's a #5 at best. The thing about Wandy is that he could be a solid #2 if he could pitch on the road anything like he does at home. How a guy has a 2.94 ERA at a hitter's park like Minute Maid and then a 6.37 everywhere else doesn't make any sense. And it will be nice to have Backe back. Say it all you want, you won't convince me Pence is a question mark. I'd bet good money he has a better season than Fukudome. If the Astros come in any lower than 3rd in the NL Central, I'll be very surprised.