NFL DRAFT 2006 - Page 2

DK · 04-05-2006, 07:22 PM

If he could use his arm.

Platinum · 04-05-2006, 07:28 PM

All he does is run. He carried his team but running mostly. No way he is going to be amazing in the NFL.

BrandonTragedy · 04-05-2006, 09:02 PM

There have been a lot of draft bust, like Leaf, he was a colleage star, was runing against Manning for Heisman, they both lost but Manning was picked first, than Leaf, Leaf became a nobody. I dont think that will happen to Lienart but i dont think he will be as good as expected, he wont live to the hype.

DK · 04-05-2006, 09:25 PM

Well, of course he's going to lose more than two games in his NFL career. He'll lose more than two games his rookie year. But he will evolve into an elite quarterback once he gets enough NFL experience.

BrandonTragedy · 04-05-2006, 09:31 PM

I just think he will be average. Tell yout the truth i dont think either will be great.

Lurch1982 · 04-05-2006, 10:50 PM

Uh, are you on crack? The only mobile QBs that have had ANY sort of success in the pro game stopped running and started passing. Prime current example is Donavan McNabb. Another would be Culpepper, although he hasn't proven he can win without Moss. And Vince DOESN'T use his arm. His running stats are wonderful, but his passing stats are piss-poor at best. His mechanics are horrible and he bombed the intelligence test. Do you know what happens to running QBs in the NFL? They find out they don't have stat-padding games like the one Young had on my alma mater UL-Lafayette (60-3) and they find out that 90% of the teams don't have mediocre D talent. The worst defensive NFL starter is still better than 95% of the defensive players in the NCAA. Vince Young isn't fast enough to survive like Vick did, and when you get down to it, Vick's already had a broken leg via Ravens and his playstyle can be completely demolished by any defensive team (meaning you occasionally flare out the D-ends, rush the tackles, and have your fastest LB runs a QB spy). What has Vick done with his legs? One playoff run? Sure. Tons of disappointment, pisspoor passing numbers, mediocre seasons every year since the playoff run, constant injuries, and the plain and simple fact that the pocket passer puts up better numbers and wins with the same team (so no criticizing the falcons for having !!!111!!!111!!!111!!!111ty WRs).

Leaf was a bust, yes. However, Peyton Manning, the better Quarterback out of the two, was not. Leinart has a better head on his shoulders than Leaf ever did, and somehow I don't see Leinart throwing his team or fans under the bus if he struggles (like Leaf did). Also, Leinart isn't going to a mediocre franchise (like Leaf did) that isn't attempting to compete on any level (like the Leaf-era Chargers). Oh, and gee, Peyton was taken BEFORE Leaf in a QB light draft (the next QB wasn't taken until late 2nd round: Charlie Batch). So yeah, the Chargers didn't really have a choice, did they? Leaf busted (and many thought he might since he played at Washington State, not exactly a pressurecooker). Leinart played in NFL-less Los Angeles, had tons of media attention and still managed to lead the team, not break down, AND put up steller numbers. He also made the correct decision in not going out last year and getting on the Niners, who simply are not committed to winning.

Auron · 04-06-2006, 02:39 PM

The intelligence test they use for college athletes isn't really all that good of an indicator. Brett Favre and Dan Marino each scored in the low 20s on the test. Guess what? One's in the Hall, and the other is a lock for it. On the flip side, a highly regarded QB named Cade Mcown who scored in the high 30s to 40s range. BUST.

As for the weird throwing mechanics, Philip Rivers has the weirdest throw I've ever seen. 4th overall pick two years ago. Starter now.

Whoever said a mobile QB is the way to go should get there facts straight. Look at the teams with mobile QBs this year. How many made the playoffs? I'll give you two at most(Pitt and Den). But both QBs are pocket passer first, runners second. Running QBs in this league do not win unless they can throw. the thing about runners like Young, they lack a pocket pressence. Once they feel the pressure, their first instinct is to run. In the NFL, that's going to lead to a lot of hits (EX: J.P. of the Bills, Mike Vick).

Leinhart is clearly the top QB, and he will succeed. Jay Cutler goes next. Young goes third.

Lurch1982 · 04-06-2006, 03:22 PM

Cade McNown was a BEAR. Ya know, when I think of passing teams, the Bears are the last team I think of. I think Grossman is the first QB they've gotten since McMahon in the 80s that is expected to succeed as a passer. Lets face it, the franchise has spent the vast majority of its history ignoring the fact that the forward pass was ever created.

Philip Rivers has taken 30 snaps, none of which in a game that counts or is close. We have no indication on how he's going to do. If he busts badly, San Diego is moving upstate to L.A.

I won't give you any. Big Ben and Plummer are NOT mobile QBs. They can scramble if they have to, but they aren't mobile unless you're saying all pocket passers have to wear cement boots like Peyton Manning. Look at the QBs that made the playoffs: Manning, Plummer, Palmer, Brady, Leftwich, Big Ben, Hasselbeck, Grossman/Orton, Simms, Manning, Delhomme, Brunnell. None of them are running QBs. They are all pocket passers, although some fall into that gunslinger mold where they can boot out and get a few yards if they have to and throw on the run if they have to.

Hell, lets go one step further and list the QBs that were just out of the playoffs (1 game back on either Wildcard or Division): Green (KC), Frerotte (MIA), Bledseu (DAL), and B Johnson (Minn).

There is no mobile QB in that entire group. The closest team with a mobile QB are the 8-8 Falcons. Even with their record, they weren't on par with the playoff teams, posting losses to every one they played (Seattle, NE, Tampa twice, Carolina twice, and Chicago).

Auron · 04-06-2006, 03:39 PM

^I generally use the term mobile for a QB who can scramble and pick up yards like that. Plummer and Rothlisberger can do that. When I say mobile, I do not mean a QB can run like your McNabbs or Vicks. You say Jake and Ben can scramble when they have to? Thats more than what most QBs can do out there. Therefore I classify them as mobile. If you are under the impression that I am for a "mobile" QB, than you are wrong.

However you look at Cade McNown, he was still a bust. He couldn't find a way to win, which is the primary job of a QB, offensive style or not. The only number that matters to a QB is wins, and he could not.

I am not saying that Rivers is going to star or not. I was just saying that the throwing mechnics of a player show not matter as long as he gets the ball to his destination. Thats why the Chargers hold Rivers in such high esteem. Well, at least their GM does.

Lurch1982 · 04-06-2006, 06:24 PM

If a QB is drafted by a team not committed to winning, they're not going to do well and have a higher chance to bust (McNown at the Bears and Leaf at the Chargers). Neither were really in a position to succeed on the pro level due to a variety of factors combined with a team not committed with winning.

Philip Rivers also passed the ball in college, unlike Young. He left as the 2nd leading passer in terms of yards (13484) and 95 career TD passes. He threw the ball well, so his mechanics aren't nearly as much of an issue as Vince Young because he's actually proven in college that he can throw far and often. Vince has not proven through college that he CAN get the ball to the target. His 3rd year looked good, but his first and second years were piss poor.

Auron · 04-06-2006, 06:36 PM

I'm not trying to argue with you about anything Lurch. I'm just saying scouts ripping a guy for his throwing mechanics is wrong. Rip a guy for where he throws the ball, not how he throws it. Just like the intelligence test doesn't really matter if the guy can digest a playbook and read defenses. I think people put a little too much stock in the combine and intelligence test, that's all.

Lurch1982 · 04-06-2006, 11:35 PM

Thing is, there's a huge difference between having a strange throwing mechanics and having poor throwing mechanics. A QB throwing sidearm is an unusual mechanic. Vince Young throwing too low, incorrectly, and having an inconsistant motion is poor mechanics.

BrandonTragedy · 04-07-2006, 06:54 PM

Oh well it wont effect the Colts probly much. Im just gonna drop out of this conversation, becouse i really dont like Colleage Football that much, im more NFL,

Auron · 04-07-2006, 08:28 PM

The Draft is the NFL.

BrandonTragedy · 04-07-2006, 09:13 PM

I know, its just that these guys are all from colleage, really the only colleage i wach is when notin else is on, and Sports Centers Highligts.

Platinum · 04-07-2006, 10:07 PM

You should really start watching it. The players become the future of the NFL.

BrandonTragedy · 04-07-2006, 10:11 PM

I get bord waching players who arnt very good, and in colleage there are a lot of them. But it does have its advantages, like seeing future stars, i did watch Kile Ortan in colleage though, he is going to be great.

Mark Prior · 04-08-2006, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelegendofme

I get bord waching players who arnt very good, and in colleage there are a lot of them. But it does have its advantages, like seeing future stars, i did watch Kile Ortan in colleage though, he is going to be great.

dude, learn to fcuking spell, seriously. It's painful to read your stuff. How hard is it to spell? "College," "Kyle Orton," "aren't," "watching," "bored." I generally don't make fun of people for their spelling (except for Blaine, because it's more fun), but that's just atrocious.

**NintendoNut** · 04-08-2006, 06:28 AM

Anyone who believes Bush isn't going to be taken by Houston has a mental problem.

Platinum · 04-08-2006, 07:00 AM

^^ I don't think he will stay there. He'll get traded hopefully for him because Texans have no O-line.

04-05-2006, 07:22 PM	#21
DK Wrestling Mod Join Date: Jul 1999 Gender: Posts: 2,994 Thanks: 43 Thanked 48 Times in 41 Posts Points: 3,948.31 Bank: 2,672,878.84 Total Points: 2,676,827.15 Donate	If he could use his arm.

04-05-2006, 07:28 PM	#22
Platinum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wv Gender: Posts: 1,369 Thanks: 48 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts Points: 4,775.24 Bank: 24,850.95 Total Points: 29,626.19 Donate	All he does is run. He carried his team but running mostly. No way he is going to be amazing in the NFL.

04-05-2006, 09:02 PM	#23
BrandonTragedy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Some where u dont know Gender: Posts: 8,072 Thanks: 213 Thanked 146 Times in 127 Posts Points: 16,982.12 Bank: 105,150.76 Total Points: 122,132.88 Donate	There have been a lot of draft bust, like Leaf, he was a colleage star, was runing against Manning for Heisman, they both lost but Manning was picked first, than Leaf, Leaf became a nobody. I dont think that will happen to Lienart but i dont think he will be as good as expected, he wont live to the hype.

04-05-2006, 09:25 PM	#24
DK Wrestling Mod Join Date: Jul 1999 Gender: Posts: 2,994 Thanks: 43 Thanked 48 Times in 41 Posts Points: 3,948.31 Bank: 2,672,878.84 Total Points: 2,676,827.15 Donate	Well, of course he's going to lose more than two games in his NFL career. He'll lose more than two games his rookie year. But he will evolve into an elite quarterback once he gets enough NFL experience.

04-05-2006, 09:31 PM	#25
BrandonTragedy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Some where u dont know Gender: Posts: 8,072 Thanks: 213 Thanked 146 Times in 127 Posts Points: 16,982.12 Bank: 105,150.76 Total Points: 122,132.88 Donate	I just think he will be average. Tell yout the truth i dont think either will be great.

04-05-2006, 10:50 PM	#26
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,458.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,183.14 Donate	Uh, are you on crack? The only mobile QBs that have had ANY sort of success in the pro game stopped running and started passing. Prime current example is Donavan McNabb. Another would be Culpepper, although he hasn't proven he can win without Moss. And Vince DOESN'T use his arm. His running stats are wonderful, but his passing stats are piss-poor at best. His mechanics are horrible and he bombed the intelligence test. Do you know what happens to running QBs in the NFL? They find out they don't have stat-padding games like the one Young had on my alma mater UL-Lafayette (60-3) and they find out that 90% of the teams don't have mediocre D talent. The worst defensive NFL starter is still better than 95% of the defensive players in the NCAA. Vince Young isn't fast enough to survive like Vick did, and when you get down to it, Vick's already had a broken leg via Ravens and his playstyle can be completely demolished by any defensive team (meaning you occasionally flare out the D-ends, rush the tackles, and have your fastest LB runs a QB spy). What has Vick done with his legs? One playoff run? Sure. Tons of disappointment, pisspoor passing numbers, mediocre seasons every year since the playoff run, constant injuries, and the plain and simple fact that the pocket passer puts up better numbers and wins with the same team (so no criticizing the falcons for having !!!111!!!111!!!111!!!111ty WRs). Leaf was a bust, yes. However, Peyton Manning, the better Quarterback out of the two, was not. Leinart has a better head on his shoulders than Leaf ever did, and somehow I don't see Leinart throwing his team or fans under the bus if he struggles (like Leaf did). Also, Leinart isn't going to a mediocre franchise (like Leaf did) that isn't attempting to compete on any level (like the Leaf-era Chargers). Oh, and gee, Peyton was taken BEFORE Leaf in a QB light draft (the next QB wasn't taken until late 2nd round: Charlie Batch). So yeah, the Chargers didn't really have a choice, did they? Leaf busted (and many thought he might since he played at Washington State, not exactly a pressurecooker). Leinart played in NFL-less Los Angeles, had tons of media attention and still managed to lead the team, not break down, AND put up steller numbers. He also made the correct decision in not going out last year and getting on the Niners, who simply are not committed to winning.

04-06-2006, 02:39 PM	#27
Auron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I don't know. Where do I live? Gender: Posts: 5,834 Thanks: 6 Thanked 204 Times in 131 Posts Points: 4,921.66 Bank: 526,045.47 Total Points: 530,967.13 Donate	The intelligence test they use for college athletes isn't really all that good of an indicator. Brett Favre and Dan Marino each scored in the low 20s on the test. Guess what? One's in the Hall, and the other is a lock for it. On the flip side, a highly regarded QB named Cade Mcown who scored in the high 30s to 40s range. BUST. As for the weird throwing mechanics, Philip Rivers has the weirdest throw I've ever seen. 4th overall pick two years ago. Starter now. Whoever said a mobile QB is the way to go should get there facts straight. Look at the teams with mobile QBs this year. How many made the playoffs? I'll give you two at most(Pitt and Den). But both QBs are pocket passer first, runners second. Running QBs in this league do not win unless they can throw. the thing about runners like Young, they lack a pocket pressence. Once they feel the pressure, their first instinct is to run. In the NFL, that's going to lead to a lot of hits (EX: J.P. of the Bills, Mike Vick). Leinhart is clearly the top QB, and he will succeed. Jay Cutler goes next. Young goes third.

04-06-2006, 03:22 PM	#28
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,458.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,183.14 Donate	Cade McNown was a BEAR. Ya know, when I think of passing teams, the Bears are the last team I think of. I think Grossman is the first QB they've gotten since McMahon in the 80s that is expected to succeed as a passer. Lets face it, the franchise has spent the vast majority of its history ignoring the fact that the forward pass was ever created. Philip Rivers has taken 30 snaps, none of which in a game that counts or is close. We have no indication on how he's going to do. If he busts badly, San Diego is moving upstate to L.A. I won't give you any. Big Ben and Plummer are NOT mobile QBs. They can scramble if they have to, but they aren't mobile unless you're saying all pocket passers have to wear cement boots like Peyton Manning. Look at the QBs that made the playoffs: Manning, Plummer, Palmer, Brady, Leftwich, Big Ben, Hasselbeck, Grossman/Orton, Simms, Manning, Delhomme, Brunnell. None of them are running QBs. They are all pocket passers, although some fall into that gunslinger mold where they can boot out and get a few yards if they have to and throw on the run if they have to. Hell, lets go one step further and list the QBs that were just out of the playoffs (1 game back on either Wildcard or Division): Green (KC), Frerotte (MIA), Bledseu (DAL), and B Johnson (Minn). There is no mobile QB in that entire group. The closest team with a mobile QB are the 8-8 Falcons. Even with their record, they weren't on par with the playoff teams, posting losses to every one they played (Seattle, NE, Tampa twice, Carolina twice, and Chicago).

04-06-2006, 03:39 PM	#29
Auron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I don't know. Where do I live? Gender: Posts: 5,834 Thanks: 6 Thanked 204 Times in 131 Posts Points: 4,921.66 Bank: 526,045.47 Total Points: 530,967.13 Donate	^I generally use the term mobile for a QB who can scramble and pick up yards like that. Plummer and Rothlisberger can do that. When I say mobile, I do not mean a QB can run like your McNabbs or Vicks. You say Jake and Ben can scramble when they have to? Thats more than what most QBs can do out there. Therefore I classify them as mobile. If you are under the impression that I am for a "mobile" QB, than you are wrong. However you look at Cade McNown, he was still a bust. He couldn't find a way to win, which is the primary job of a QB, offensive style or not. The only number that matters to a QB is wins, and he could not. I am not saying that Rivers is going to star or not. I was just saying that the throwing mechnics of a player show not matter as long as he gets the ball to his destination. Thats why the Chargers hold Rivers in such high esteem. Well, at least their GM does.

04-06-2006, 06:24 PM	#30
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,458.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,183.14 Donate	If a QB is drafted by a team not committed to winning, they're not going to do well and have a higher chance to bust (McNown at the Bears and Leaf at the Chargers). Neither were really in a position to succeed on the pro level due to a variety of factors combined with a team not committed with winning. Philip Rivers also passed the ball in college, unlike Young. He left as the 2nd leading passer in terms of yards (13484) and 95 career TD passes. He threw the ball well, so his mechanics aren't nearly as much of an issue as Vince Young because he's actually proven in college that he can throw far and often. Vince has not proven through college that he CAN get the ball to the target. His 3rd year looked good, but his first and second years were piss poor.

04-06-2006, 06:36 PM	#31
Auron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I don't know. Where do I live? Gender: Posts: 5,834 Thanks: 6 Thanked 204 Times in 131 Posts Points: 4,921.66 Bank: 526,045.47 Total Points: 530,967.13 Donate	I'm not trying to argue with you about anything Lurch. I'm just saying scouts ripping a guy for his throwing mechanics is wrong. Rip a guy for where he throws the ball, not how he throws it. Just like the intelligence test doesn't really matter if the guy can digest a playbook and read defenses. I think people put a little too much stock in the combine and intelligence test, that's all.

04-06-2006, 11:35 PM	#32
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,458.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,183.14 Donate	Thing is, there's a huge difference between having a strange throwing mechanics and having poor throwing mechanics. A QB throwing sidearm is an unusual mechanic. Vince Young throwing too low, incorrectly, and having an inconsistant motion is poor mechanics.

04-07-2006, 06:54 PM	#33
BrandonTragedy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Some where u dont know Gender: Posts: 8,072 Thanks: 213 Thanked 146 Times in 127 Posts Points: 16,982.12 Bank: 105,150.76 Total Points: 122,132.88 Donate	Oh well it wont effect the Colts probly much. Im just gonna drop out of this conversation, becouse i really dont like Colleage Football that much, im more NFL,

04-07-2006, 08:28 PM	#34
Auron Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: I don't know. Where do I live? Gender: Posts: 5,834 Thanks: 6 Thanked 204 Times in 131 Posts Points: 4,921.66 Bank: 526,045.47 Total Points: 530,967.13 Donate	The Draft is the NFL.

04-07-2006, 09:13 PM	#35
BrandonTragedy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Some where u dont know Gender: Posts: 8,072 Thanks: 213 Thanked 146 Times in 127 Posts Points: 16,982.12 Bank: 105,150.76 Total Points: 122,132.88 Donate	I know, its just that these guys are all from colleage, really the only colleage i wach is when notin else is on, and Sports Centers Highligts.

04-07-2006, 10:07 PM	#36
Platinum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wv Gender: Posts: 1,369 Thanks: 48 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts Points: 4,775.24 Bank: 24,850.95 Total Points: 29,626.19 Donate	You should really start watching it. The players become the future of the NFL.

04-07-2006, 10:11 PM	#37
BrandonTragedy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Some where u dont know Gender: Posts: 8,072 Thanks: 213 Thanked 146 Times in 127 Posts Points: 16,982.12 Bank: 105,150.76 Total Points: 122,132.88 Donate	I get bord waching players who arnt very good, and in colleage there are a lot of them. But it does have its advantages, like seeing future stars, i did watch Kile Ortan in colleage though, he is going to be great.

04-08-2006, 06:28 AM	#39
NintendoNut NinNut Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hold on, I know this..... Gender: Posts: 8,298 Thanks: 84 Thanked 41 Times in 31 Posts Points: 49,482.76 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 49,482.76 Donate	Anyone who believes Bush isn't going to be taken by Houston has a mental problem.

04-08-2006, 07:00 AM	#40
Platinum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wv Gender: Posts: 1,369 Thanks: 48 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts Points: 4,775.24 Bank: 24,850.95 Total Points: 29,626.19 Donate	^^ I don't think he will stay there. He'll get traded hopefully for him because Texans have no O-line.