Best Athlete all around for the last 10 years? - Page 2

Mark Prior · 09-19-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelty87

im not gonna pretend to know and follow cycling, but iv followed what armstrong has done (as far as the tour de france anyways) and have enough sense to know that it is one of the most difficult things to even finish that race in the top 50, let alone be #1 7 years in a row. the thing that makes it more amazing was the history of cancer that he had and how he overcame it, but everyone knows about that.

until Armstrong is cleared of this latest allegation, I'm keeping my doubt. Even then, the only cycling event anyone gives a hoot about (and even thats not much) is the Tour De France. What else has he won, seriously.

Koga · 09-20-2006, 06:21 AM

Actually, in Europe many people care about other events in road cycling (although the Tour de France is most important). There's two other big tours (Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a Espana) numerous smaller tours (e.g. Germany, Switzerland, Poland) and other small multiple stage courses (e.g. Dauphine Libere, Paris-Nice) , one day classics (e.g. Amstel Gold Race, Liege-Bastogne-Liege) and the World Championships which are held this week. Cycling is big in countries like France, Holland, Spain and its huge in Belgium and Italy.

As for Armstrong, he focused entirely on the Tour de France, he competed in other courses, but only to train for the Tour. But even then it's impressive that he managed to win 7 times in a row, because there are many other cyclists who focus mainly on the Tour. Allegations against Armstrong come and go. None have ever been proved to be correct, and none of them have come from 2000-2005.

It's Landis who still needs to be cleared of his latest allegation before he becomes the true winner of this year's Tour de France.

Lurch1982 · 09-20-2006, 04:07 PM

Thing is, when you have a ton of people saying "I saw Armstrong inject" and ex-teammates busted for doping say he was doing it too and you combine all of that with the undisputed fact that cycling is a filthy sport,its hard to say he's the best ever for the exact same reasons why I won't say someone like Barry Bonds is the best ever.

***ZeldaGirl*** · 09-20-2006, 05:17 PM

I have to agree with Koga when it comes down to comparing different athletes from different sports. Every sport has a requires different skill and preparation (both mental and physical).

That being said, I highly admire Michael Jordan, because he was a fantastic athlete. However, I can't really compare him to other athletes from different sports...

Mark Prior · 09-20-2006, 06:21 PM

I am thinking that someday, Albert Pujols will be the answer to the question this topic asks.

**Crazyswordsman** · 09-20-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon2390

Humor me...why do you hate Michael Jordan?

Do you know where I'm originally from due to my topic responses? -CSM

Brandon2390 · 09-20-2006, 08:39 PM

Eh, havent really paid attention. I'm guessing somewhere in Boston, Utah, or LA perhaps?

**Crazyswordsman** · 09-20-2006, 09:10 PM

How about I'm originally from BROOKLYN. I'm a Knicks fan. -CSM

Koga · 09-21-2006, 09:10 AM

I haven't heard ex-teammates accuse Armstrong of taking doping.

Like I said before, cyling seems more dirty that other sports because the authorities check the athletes so thoroughly and frequently. Most of the cyclists excluded from this year's Tour de France have still not been officially found guilty (Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo and many others. They were only excluded because their names were on a list of athletes who had been in contact with a certain Dr Fuentes, who enhances blood for athletes. And there are a lot of other athletes from a variety of sports on that list, but their names haven't been publicised.

And in all fairness, Armstrong is not considered the best cyclist ever: Eddy Merckx is.

Mark Prior · 09-21-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koga

I haven't heard ex-teammates accuse Armstrong of taking doping.

you haven't been paying attention, then.

Lurch1982 · 09-21-2006, 11:49 AM

Um, they threw out some of the top riders before the race...

I don't think its because its tested more. You don't see nearly as many olympians (who get tested to a harsher standard) go down as cyclists. Granted, Track is just as dirty (no denying that). Thing is, as bad as the NFL and MLB is over here, it isn't nearly as bad as the proportion of cyclists who cheat.

Swordmaster Link · 09-21-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Prior

I am throwing Tom Brady in here. Suck it if you disagree.

The question is best athlete. Tom Brady isn't even the best athlete at his position, much less sport.

GURU ANT · 09-21-2006, 01:25 PM

Let's not take away the fact that he is one of the best of all time in the clutch.

Koga · 09-21-2006, 06:15 PM

They've thrown out some of the top riders (Basso, Ulrich and Mancebo) because they were on Dr Fuentes's list. That doesn't necessarily mean they had their blood enhanced. Even if they made a phone call they are on that list. Vinokourov couldn't compete, because 4 of his team members were on that list, and you need at least 6 of the 9 cyclists at the start of a Tour.

Also, it was the sponsors who pulled them out of the race, not the UCI or the organisation of the Tour.

It's most likely true that the largest proportion of doping takes place in cylcing. It's also because of the nature of the sport, which is much more endurance-based than speed-based. I also think that it seems larger than it is because of the checks and media attention.

And despite being a 'dirty' sport, there are still great achievements like Vinokourov's victory in this year's Vuelta.

Should he get accused of doping it would be pretty disastrous, though. That would mean that all three big tours of this year could have an undiserved winner (as did last year's Vuelta).

Brandon2390 · 09-21-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubber Band Man

Let's not take away the fact that he is one of the best of all time in the clutch.

Yes, he is, but people do overrate him, tons. He had the best O-line in football for a while, give me that much time and I bet you I can find those receievers. On a lot of the plays though, he does have a lot of awareness and pocket prescense dodging tackles and still getting the ball off, but he's not the best QB right now to me.

Mark Prior · 09-21-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon2390

Yes, he is, but people do overrate him, tons. He had the best O-line in football for a while, give me that much time and I bet you I can find those receievers. On a lot of the plays though, he does have a lot of awareness and pocket prescense dodging tackles and still getting the ball off, but he's not the best QB right now to me.

you and SML are both fuucking morons. I'd like to see your choices for best QB, though I suspect it is none other than Peyton "Choke" Manning. Brady is hands down the best QB in the last ten years. He has three rings to his credit. In four years. With parity in the NFl nowadays, that is borderline impossible. While Manning has been loaded with weapons over the last X years (one Hall of Fame WR, anothes Pro Bowl caliber WR, and one of the best backs in the NFL in Edge), Brady has won with far less. Choker has had a great offensive line for years and he still can't get the job done. Meanwhile, Brady gets it done against just about everybody. Last year, he led the NFL in passing yards and was third in TD passes. No one has gotten it done like Brady has and he is the reason that the Pats are always viable contenders.

Mark Prior · 09-21-2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordmaster Link

The question is best athlete. Tom Brady isn't even the best athlete at his position, much less sport.

yeah I bet you like scrub faagots like Michael Vick, get out. Name someone with the credentials of Brady, oh wait you can't because Brady owns everyone.

Swordmaster Link · 09-22-2006, 12:10 AM

Clearly you didn't note the fact that I italicized the word "athlete". I can't argue the fact that Brady is probably the most reliable quarterback in the league...I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try and do that. What I am saying is, you can't sit there and tell me that Brady is more athletic than QBs like Vick or McNabb.

Mark Prior · 09-22-2006, 02:03 AM

uh, do you even know the context in which the topic title is to be taken?

Swordmaster Link · 09-22-2006, 10:55 AM

Why don't we ask Brandon?

09-20-2006, 06:21 AM	#22
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,339.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,200.99 Donate	Actually, in Europe many people care about other events in road cycling (although the Tour de France is most important). There's two other big tours (Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a Espana) numerous smaller tours (e.g. Germany, Switzerland, Poland) and other small multiple stage courses (e.g. Dauphine Libere, Paris-Nice) , one day classics (e.g. Amstel Gold Race, Liege-Bastogne-Liege) and the World Championships which are held this week. Cycling is big in countries like France, Holland, Spain and its huge in Belgium and Italy. As for Armstrong, he focused entirely on the Tour de France, he competed in other courses, but only to train for the Tour. But even then it's impressive that he managed to win 7 times in a row, because there are many other cyclists who focus mainly on the Tour. Allegations against Armstrong come and go. None have ever been proved to be correct, and none of them have come from 2000-2005. It's Landis who still needs to be cleared of his latest allegation before he becomes the true winner of this year's Tour de France.

09-20-2006, 04:07 PM	#23
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,454.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,179.14 Donate	Thing is, when you have a ton of people saying "I saw Armstrong inject" and ex-teammates busted for doping say he was doing it too and you combine all of that with the undisputed fact that cycling is a filthy sport,its hard to say he's the best ever for the exact same reasons why I won't say someone like Barry Bonds is the best ever.

09-20-2006, 05:17 PM	#24
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 12,595 Thanks: 573 Thanked 962 Times in 648 Posts Points: 39,854.95 Bank: 927,566.32 Total Points: 967,421.27 Donate	I have to agree with Koga when it comes down to comparing different athletes from different sports. Every sport has a requires different skill and preparation (both mental and physical). That being said, I highly admire Michael Jordan, because he was a fantastic athlete. However, I can't really compare him to other athletes from different sports...

09-20-2006, 06:21 PM	#25
Mark Prior Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Gender: Posts: 305 Thanks: 21 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts Points: 6,655.56 Bank: 828.59 Total Points: 7,484.15 Donate	I am thinking that someday, Albert Pujols will be the answer to the question this topic asks.

09-20-2006, 08:39 PM	#27
Brandon2390 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Connecticut Posts: 10,439 Thanks: 6 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts Points: 43,653.03 Bank: 1,847.49 Total Points: 45,500.52 Donate	Eh, havent really paid attention. I'm guessing somewhere in Boston, Utah, or LA perhaps?

09-20-2006, 09:10 PM	#28
Crazyswordsman RPG Mod Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Booyaville (yeah!) Gender: Posts: 8,584 Thanks: 633 Thanked 471 Times in 311 Posts Points: 167,318.15 Bank: 77,775.54 Total Points: 245,093.69 Donate	How about I'm originally from BROOKLYN. I'm a Knicks fan. -CSM

09-21-2006, 09:10 AM	#29
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,339.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,200.99 Donate	I haven't heard ex-teammates accuse Armstrong of taking doping. Like I said before, cyling seems more dirty that other sports because the authorities check the athletes so thoroughly and frequently. Most of the cyclists excluded from this year's Tour de France have still not been officially found guilty (Basso, Ulrich, Mancebo and many others. They were only excluded because their names were on a list of athletes who had been in contact with a certain Dr Fuentes, who enhances blood for athletes. And there are a lot of other athletes from a variety of sports on that list, but their names haven't been publicised. And in all fairness, Armstrong is not considered the best cyclist ever: Eddy Merckx is.

09-21-2006, 11:49 AM	#31
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,278 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,454.03 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 375,179.14 Donate	Um, they threw out some of the top riders before the race... I don't think its because its tested more. You don't see nearly as many olympians (who get tested to a harsher standard) go down as cyclists. Granted, Track is just as dirty (no denying that). Thing is, as bad as the NFL and MLB is over here, it isn't nearly as bad as the proportion of cyclists who cheat.

09-21-2006, 01:25 PM	#33
GURU ANT What's this what's this a trick with a twist? Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Shhhh, it's a secret right now Gender: Posts: 13,619 Thanks: 1,146 Thanked 757 Times in 438 Posts Points: 25,862.80 Bank: 1,348,323.25 Total Points: 1,374,186.05 Donate	Let's not take away the fact that he is one of the best of all time in the clutch.

09-21-2006, 06:15 PM	#34
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,339.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,200.99 Donate	They've thrown out some of the top riders (Basso, Ulrich and Mancebo) because they were on Dr Fuentes's list. That doesn't necessarily mean they had their blood enhanced. Even if they made a phone call they are on that list. Vinokourov couldn't compete, because 4 of his team members were on that list, and you need at least 6 of the 9 cyclists at the start of a Tour. Also, it was the sponsors who pulled them out of the race, not the UCI or the organisation of the Tour. It's most likely true that the largest proportion of doping takes place in cylcing. It's also because of the nature of the sport, which is much more endurance-based than speed-based. I also think that it seems larger than it is because of the checks and media attention. And despite being a 'dirty' sport, there are still great achievements like Vinokourov's victory in this year's Vuelta. Should he get accused of doping it would be pretty disastrous, though. That would mean that all three big tours of this year could have an undiserved winner (as did last year's Vuelta).

09-22-2006, 12:10 AM	#38
Swordmaster Link Super Bodyguard & King of the Arcade Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Wherever you want me to be Gender: Posts: 31,149 Thanks: 248 Thanked 787 Times in 557 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 243.65 Bank: 2,792,377.46 Total Points: 2,792,621.11 Donate	Clearly you didn't note the fact that I italicized the word "athlete". I can't argue the fact that Brady is probably the most reliable quarterback in the league...I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to try and do that. What I am saying is, you can't sit there and tell me that Brady is more athletic than QBs like Vick or McNabb.

09-22-2006, 02:03 AM	#39
Mark Prior Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Gender: Posts: 305 Thanks: 21 Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts Points: 6,655.56 Bank: 828.59 Total Points: 7,484.15 Donate	uh, do you even know the context in which the topic title is to be taken?

09-22-2006, 10:55 AM	#40
Swordmaster Link Super Bodyguard & King of the Arcade Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Wherever you want me to be Gender: Posts: 31,149 Thanks: 248 Thanked 787 Times in 557 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 243.65 Bank: 2,792,377.46 Total Points: 2,792,621.11 Donate	Why don't we ask Brandon?