About RPGs.

Ditto McCloaker · 07-31-2003, 11:36 AM

Can there be more to an RPG's appeal than just storyline and characters?

Can you ever speak of gameplay as an RPG's greatest feature, or is it really just about how good the characters and storyline are?

*is determined to one day design the gameplay-focused RPG*

Harvest Moon's Main Man · 07-31-2003, 11:47 AM

imported_AJ Middleton · 07-31-2003, 12:12 PM

An RPG is usually centered around storyline and character development, but gameplay is always a cool bonus.

Now define gameplay.

07-31-2003, 01:47 PM

As long as there isn't a link to -that- article, I'm fine...

07-31-2003, 03:49 PM

I guess I'm weird. I'm more of a story-guy. The game is fun, but I like to feel what the characters feel. I can't have sympathy for those Koopa Troopas that Mario stomps on because they have no character development.
-T2K

07-31-2003, 04:13 PM

very few rpgs have good gameplay. Thats pretty much the main reason i don't finish them.

A Genius · 07-31-2003, 04:38 PM

The three most important things in an RPG (my opinion): 1. Originality
2. Battle System
3. On second thought, originality and the battle system are the important bits. Never mind 3.

-A Genius (My opinion.)

07-31-2003, 05:17 PM

For Square RPGs, the appeal is usually graphics.

For most RPGs, the appeal is actually the battle system. Min/max has almost always been a more interesting task than actual roleplaying or story reading.

07-31-2003, 06:21 PM

Gameplay in Chrono Cross is really good, and its a better version of the Gameplay in CT... so, i dont know, its a good thing to have..

Neko^^

imported_AJ Middleton · 07-31-2003, 10:40 PM

If you consider the battle system as gameplay, it counts. I like realtime battles, like in Zelda and the Secret series, but I like formatted battle systems too. My favorite has to be in Chrono Cross, which is sorta a mix of both.

The only (console) RPG battle system that I don't like is in games like Lufia 1 and Golden Sun, where you HAVE to target the enemy that you want to hit, or else it's a miss if it has already been defeated. That's annoying.

(I specified console, because most PC RPGs have a realtime battle system, so I suppose gameplay matters a lot more.)

07-31-2003, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoltDragoon:
[QB]The only (console) RPG battle system that I don't like is in games like Lufia 1 and Golden Sun, where you HAVE to target the enemy that you want to hit, or else it's a miss if it has already been defeated. That's annoying. QB]

My pet peeve..I have to have a good battle system yes,...but graphics and sound do matter somewhat to me too, I would not play the orignal version of Final Fantasy because it hurt my ears. Story also matters, but a mess of a story is just confusing. Also I have low tolerance for the "classic" go to town, solve their problem, move to next town ala Lufia.
In all, it needs to not harm the eyes and ears, have believable, identifiable characters, unique battle systems are a plus (standing there trading blows is repetitive and boring). The game needs to capture and keep your attention throughout the entire story.

[ July 31, 2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Daos is hungry ]

07-31-2003, 11:45 PM

ATB is probably my least favorite battle system, and the fact most final fantasies use it turn me off from them

08-01-2003, 02:03 AM

I fell asleep one night because the ATB bored me half to death. They cost me the win against Safer Sephiroth....and Omnislash was up too.

Real time battles where you move around and jump and stuff are my favorates. Keeps your head in the game rather than just holding down the X button to auto-attack.

imported_AJ Middleton · 08-01-2003, 10:29 AM

That's why I like CC so much. The ATB/realtime system is perfect. Plus, you're forced to use more strategy.

[ August 01, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: BoltDragoon ]

Ditto McCloaker · 08-01-2003, 04:14 PM

What about the stuff you do OUTSIDE of battles?

How about the figuring out how to get at a hard-to-reach treasure? What about exploring side areas, and finding items in cleverly-hidden things (A fire sword in a stove, for instance).

How about racing the clock, or dodging things as you move? How about when a character gives you a riddle about something you have to figure out in your head, which may ultimately lead you to said side-quest or interesting side area.

I loathe RPGs where most of what you do takes place in Battle Mode, or where I have to spend minutes watching those... what do you call those highly-detailed movie-like sequences in which important things happen that you have no control over?

Sometimes, when I play an RPG, it's like I'm watching a movie that constantly gets stopped and I'm forced to press buttons and watch heroes fight highly-detailed enemies.

Are these points in FAVOR of RPGs, or are they the bad things, to you?

08-01-2003, 06:55 PM

You need a balance. Pretty pictures are easy on the eyes. However thats nothing when gameplay sucks.

Same goes the other way in a sense. Graphics help out and if it's bothersome to watch, gameplay won't be as fun.

There needs to be a degree of difficulty no matter where you go. I liked both FF8 and FFT's use of monsters. They level with your characters making battles easier.

Character customization is something i'd like to see. MMORPGs have that feature, however something more detailed and such in a console RPG would be welcomed. Role-playing as a character you designed sorta makes things more fun rather than using the standard issue.

08-01-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Banky Edwards:
I guess I'm weird. I'm more of a story-guy. The game is fun, but I like to feel what the characters feel.
-T2K

Then how can you stand Shining Force?

What do these Skitty find so facinating? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Go there to find out what facinates them so much!

imported_AJ Middleton · 08-01-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

]How about the figuring out how to get at a hard-to-reach treasure? What about exploring side areas, and finding items in cleverly-hidden things (A fire sword in a stove, for instance).

Necessary!

Quote:

How about racing the clock, or dodging things as you move?

Not a big deal, especially in ATB RPGs. But they are essential to free systems.

Quote:

How about when a character gives you a riddle about something you have to figure out in your head, which may ultimately lead you to said side-quest or interesting side area.

That's what RPGs are about!

Quote:

I loathe RPGs where most of what you do takes place in Battle Mode, or where I have to spend minutes watching those... what do you call those highly-detailed movie-like sequences in which important things happen that you have no control over?

I agree.

Quote:

Sometimes, when I play an RPG, it's like I'm watching a movie that constantly gets stopped and I'm forced to press buttons and watch heroes fight highly-detailed enemies.

See, it depends. The ATB has a loophole, in which strategy isn't needed. We all know spells like Stop, Silence, Doom, and Slow. Does anyone ever USE those? No! They are put there for strategic purposes, but they aren't needed at all. The normal player usually goes all offensive and only stops attacking to heal. For this reason, some battles may feel like pressing buttons. Again, that's why I liked CC's, because you have to stay on your toes as well.

What Makes a Good RPG... Is this a potential editorial idea for PS/NGF? What do you guys think?

08-01-2003, 10:13 PM

agreed, CC's battle system was good. Chrono trigger's was better than normal atb, but was still basically atb.

FFT's battle system is great. It requires a lot more strategy than most rpg's. You have to place your units right, time spells and stuff to hit, there's just a lot involved. The main problem is its pretty easy for the most part.

"I loathe RPGs where most of what you do takes place in Battle Mode, or where I have to spend minutes watching those... what do you call those highly-detailed movie-like sequences in which important things happen that you have no control over?"

I can't stand constant movies (coughcoughFFXcoughcough) but i can stand a lot of fights IF the battle system is good

08-02-2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoltDragoon:
See, it depends. The ATB has a loophole, in which strategy isn't needed. We all know spells like Stop, Silence, Doom, and Slow. Does anyone ever USE those? No! They are put there for strategic purposes, but they aren't needed at all. The normal player usually goes all offensive and only stops attacking to heal.

I'm not sure if it applies to everyone, but I never use those because they never work.

What do these Skitty find so facinating? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Go there to find out what facinates them so much!

07-31-2003, 11:47 AM	#2
Harvest Moon's Main Man Banned for General Health Hijinks Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Arrakis Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No.

07-31-2003, 11:36 AM	#1
Ditto McCloaker Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: SimCity Posts: 3,246 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can there be more to an RPG's appeal than just storyline and characters? Can you ever speak of gameplay as an RPG's greatest feature, or is it really just about how good the characters and storyline are? is determined to one day design the gameplay-focused RPG

07-31-2003, 12:12 PM	#3
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	An RPG is usually centered around storyline and character development, but gameplay is always a cool bonus. Now define gameplay.

07-31-2003, 01:47 PM	#4
supperdish Guest Posts: n/a	As long as there isn't a link to -that- article, I'm fine...

07-31-2003, 03:49 PM	#5
Tonberry2k Guest Posts: n/a	I guess I'm weird. I'm more of a story-guy. The game is fun, but I like to feel what the characters feel. I can't have sympathy for those Koopa Troopas that Mario stomps on because they have no character development. -T2K

07-31-2003, 04:13 PM	#6
[sage] Guest Posts: n/a	very few rpgs have good gameplay. Thats pretty much the main reason i don't finish them.

07-31-2003, 04:38 PM	#7
A Genius Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Place Posts: 2,657 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The three most important things in an RPG (my opinion): 1. Originality 2. Battle System 3. On second thought, originality and the battle system are the important bits. Never mind 3. -A Genius (My opinion.)

07-31-2003, 05:17 PM	#8
Tiberian Knight Guest Posts: n/a	For Square RPGs, the appeal is usually graphics. For most RPGs, the appeal is actually the battle system. Min/max has almost always been a more interesting task than actual roleplaying or story reading.

07-31-2003, 06:21 PM	#9
Nekoscat Guest Posts: n/a	Gameplay in Chrono Cross is really good, and its a better version of the Gameplay in CT... so, i dont know, its a good thing to have.. Neko^^

07-31-2003, 10:40 PM	#10
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you consider the battle system as gameplay, it counts. I like realtime battles, like in Zelda and the Secret series, but I like formatted battle systems too. My favorite has to be in Chrono Cross, which is sorta a mix of both. The only (console) RPG battle system that I don't like is in games like Lufia 1 and Golden Sun, where you HAVE to target the enemy that you want to hit, or else it's a miss if it has already been defeated. That's annoying. (I specified console, because most PC RPGs have a realtime battle system, so I suppose gameplay matters a lot more.)

07-31-2003, 11:45 PM	#12
[sage] Guest Posts: n/a	ATB is probably my least favorite battle system, and the fact most final fantasies use it turn me off from them

08-01-2003, 02:03 AM	#13
Rattan Guest Posts: n/a	I fell asleep one night because the ATB bored me half to death. They cost me the win against Safer Sephiroth....and Omnislash was up too. Real time battles where you move around and jump and stuff are my favorates. Keeps your head in the game rather than just holding down the X button to auto-attack.

08-01-2003, 10:29 AM	#14
imported_AJ Middleton Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's why I like CC so much. The ATB/realtime system is perfect. Plus, you're forced to use more strategy. [ August 01, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: BoltDragoon ]

08-01-2003, 04:14 PM	#15
Ditto McCloaker Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: SimCity Posts: 3,246 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What about the stuff you do OUTSIDE of battles? How about the figuring out how to get at a hard-to-reach treasure? What about exploring side areas, and finding items in cleverly-hidden things (A fire sword in a stove, for instance). How about racing the clock, or dodging things as you move? How about when a character gives you a riddle about something you have to figure out in your head, which may ultimately lead you to said side-quest or interesting side area. I loathe RPGs where most of what you do takes place in Battle Mode, or where I have to spend minutes watching those... what do you call those highly-detailed movie-like sequences in which important things happen that you have no control over? Sometimes, when I play an RPG, it's like I'm watching a movie that constantly gets stopped and I'm forced to press buttons and watch heroes fight highly-detailed enemies. Are these points in FAVOR of RPGs, or are they the bad things, to you?

08-01-2003, 06:55 PM	#16
Rattan Guest Posts: n/a	You need a balance. Pretty pictures are easy on the eyes. However thats nothing when gameplay sucks. Same goes the other way in a sense. Graphics help out and if it's bothersome to watch, gameplay won't be as fun. There needs to be a degree of difficulty no matter where you go. I liked both FF8 and FFT's use of monsters. They level with your characters making battles easier. Character customization is something i'd like to see. MMORPGs have that feature, however something more detailed and such in a console RPG would be welcomed. Role-playing as a character you designed sorta makes things more fun rather than using the standard issue.

08-01-2003, 10:13 PM	#19
[sage] Guest Posts: n/a	agreed, CC's battle system was good. Chrono trigger's was better than normal atb, but was still basically atb. FFT's battle system is great. It requires a lot more strategy than most rpg's. You have to place your units right, time spells and stuff to hit, there's just a lot involved. The main problem is its pretty easy for the most part. "I loathe RPGs where most of what you do takes place in Battle Mode, or where I have to spend minutes watching those... what do you call those highly-detailed movie-like sequences in which important things happen that you have no control over?" I can't stand constant movies (coughcoughFFXcoughcough) but i can stand a lot of fights IF the battle system is good