Is Square actually CAPABLE of making another good game?

02-03-2004, 05:56 PM

Seriously. I mean a really good game. I mean a "Oh crap, this is really damn good" game. They've just been going down hill with all of this FFX-2 crap and this FF:CC crap and this FFXI crap and this Chrono Cross crap and this Final Fantasy IX crap and this Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced crap and this Final Fantasy X crap and this LLLUUUCCCCCCAAA!!! crap and whatever else crap. I mean, sure, some of those games were "good", but I want "Square Good". I want "Crap My Pants Because It's So Amasing" good. I want "OMGF WFT SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP THIS GAME IS AWESOME" good. RPGamer posted an editorial about how Squaresoft is now the new Disney, AKA putting out stupid crap instead of something truely creative. You can find it here. Beware, this guy has a lot of spoilers for various games in the article.

http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2004/q1/020304hk.html

I think the author of the editorial is on the right track, but I think some of his reasonings are a little stupid. I mean, he basically just nit-picks all of his pet-peeves with recent games, which I think is a silly way to argue that Square is doing down hill. I think it's simplier to say that Square simply isn't trying anymore. Their games just don't have that spark. And they seem content to release this silly junk.

Can Final Fantasy XII save them? Do they even HAVE any other game in development right now? I mean, there is nothing from Square that I'm looking forward to, except for maybe FF12. But what else do they have? Um...nothing? Come on, Square. Stop sucking.-jay

Wyborn · 02-03-2004, 06:45 PM

FFIX kicked ass, you heretic.

And....I dunno about the recent FF games, having not owned a PS2, but FFXII looks really, really nice. It seems to promise the sort of revolution (gameplay-wise) that seperated each Final Fantasy from each other so starkly in the first three generations (1-9).

Insofar as Square goes, I'm not actually able to look forward to anything but Crystal Chronicles (which looks awesome to me and my little brother), but FFXII and Kingdom Hearts II look DAMN fine.

Hmmm....this gives me an idea.

02-03-2004, 06:54 PM

Kingdom Hearts and FFTA were awesome.

imported_mango · 02-03-2004, 09:27 PM

Yeah, most of the currect Square games have been crap. I thought Kingdom Hearts was the most crapilicious, though. It was way too much of an action adventure game than an RPG

02-03-2004, 09:37 PM

I can't decide whether to give you a bag of Jolly Ranchers for what you said about Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2, and Final Fantasy XI or to Burn you at the stake with Mango for what he said about Kigndom Hearts and what you said about Final Fantasy 9 and Final fantasy Tactics Advance.

Final Fantasy XII and Kingdom Hearts actually look pretty good. Chain of Memories, meeh, it looks good but I hope the Card-based-combat isn't as annoying as Junctioning or the Sphere Grid.

02-03-2004, 10:14 PM

I halfway agree with Jay. Though the games he and mango listed were definetly NOT crapilicious, we definetly need another groundbreaking RPG. We need a game that will blow our shorts off. We need a game that we'll be talking about years from now. We need another Final Fantasy 6. We need another Chrono Trigger. Us RPG geeks are dying here... GIVE US A GOOD GAME.

02-03-2004, 10:38 PM

No, I agree with you all that most of the games I listed were "good". But I don't think any of them where "Talking About How Awesome They Are Ten Years From Now" good, like Chrono Trigger and FF3.-jay

02-03-2004, 10:47 PM

FFXI has actually been doing well. They be cashing in on the online market.

FFX: Wasn't too bad. It just didn't have enough good elements.

FFX-2: Why hath you forsaken us! This piece of **** has been set upon us like a plagued body thrown by an invading army sieging our city. What have we done to ask for this to brought down upon us...long sotry short: IT SUCKS! Yet fanboys bought it so now Square will probably release another ****-tastic sequal to an otherwise good game.

I think it should be noted that when they don't have regular members of their staff working on the game, they release a very awesome game. Observation: Employed for life is not a good policy at the moment for Square. People like something new once in awhile. But the problem is they still have on board the same guys from 20+ years ago. And some of these guys just aren't changing how they do things.

There is hope for FFXII. They have a different staff working on the game and that gives hope for a very fun game.

02-03-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Richie The Talekeeper:
I halfway agree with Jay. Though the games he and mango listed were definetly NOT crapilicious, we definetly need another groundbreaking RPG. We need a game that will blow our shorts off. We need a game that we'll be talking about years from now. We need another Final Fantasy 6. We need another Chrono Trigger. Us RPG geeks are dying here... GIVE US A GOOD GAME.

Agreed. While Final Fantasy 9 is the best Square-Enix 3D RPG (It could have been FF8 if not for that annoying Junctioning), it certainly pales in comparison to Chrono Trigger. Like Rattan said, Final Fantasy XII has a chance, it might be the next Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 6. If they port Seiken Dentsu 3 (They can call it Sword of Mana 2 or Secret of Mana 2), they might have a chance of satisfying us (Not Jay) for a while, but we need something new that's as Good as Chrono Trigger and not bad like Chrono Cross.

02-04-2004, 08:44 AM

Thats the other problem. People keep comparing it to previous games to the point that they point out so many problems that the other game didn't have they decide the game is the suck. You folks at times sound like old men talking about the good old days.

"In my day, we didn't have fancey FMVs...we had in game events where the characters did stuff and it was amazing!"

02-04-2004, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SuperPenguin:
Kingdom Hearts and FFTA were awesome.

02-04-2004, 10:02 AM

Quote:

But the problem is they still have on board the same guys from 20+ years ago. And some of these guys just aren't changing how they do things

Anyone else agree they need a new ****ing character designer? I'm tired of the ****ing brunette who looks exactly the same as the others in her role.

FF7: Yuffie, Aeris, Tifa
FF8: Selphie, Rinoa, Quistis
FF9: Eiko, Garnet, Freya
FFX: Rikku, Yuna, Lulu

The female characters were perky, serious, and light-hearted yet a little serious. The only change has been that the serious girl has gotten more serious.

Seems after FF7 they just stopped being creative. The main females were generally Serious, perky, and a little both/quiet. It's getting annoying in that you can't really like the character when you've already played on just like it last time.

An RPG needs the right balance. story: Characters, plot, flow, character personalities, side plot, etc.. Technical: Weapon system, magic system, advancement system(lvling), item, quests... And Cosmetic: Music, graphics, speed, and other. Each game has had a problem holding it back in one of the aspects.

[ February 04, 2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Rattan ]

imported_mango · 02-04-2004, 04:05 PM

Ok, I'll take my stand on all the recent Square games and tell you what I think. And yes, you can not read this and say you did.

FFX - I really liked this game, although a lot of people didn't. There wasn't that much to put down about this game, but the only thing that bothered me was the sphere grid system. I would rather gave experience points than the sphere grid system. Overall, this was a good game.

FFX-2 - Um.... no. This game was basically just a bunch of sidequests with little to no story. At all. The game was fun, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was a good game.

FFXI - Never played it, but I am going to say it is crap because any MMORPG that you pay monthly for is crap.

FFTA - This game was okay. I just downloaded the ROM (arrest me) and played it for a little. Never finished it, but all in all, it was an okay game.

Kingdom Hearts - Okay, there is no doubt in my mind that this game was crap. The Disney and Square mix just didn't work for me. At all. And I'm a big fan of turn based strategy games, and I pretty much hate Action Adventure games. I personally didn't see many RPG elements in this game. They should have just called it an Action Adventure game.

FFIX - It was pretty good, but it wasn't the best. It had a great soundtrack that I bought though.

Final Fantasy The Spirits Within - Square, don't make movies. Ever. Again.

Goldeneye for N64 - This was the best game ever. Oh, wait...

Dee Emm · 02-04-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mango:
Final Fantasy The Spirits Within - Square, don't make movies. Ever. Again.

Too late. FFVII: Advent Children's being released later this year, I believe.

02-04-2004, 07:17 PM

Well, in the character designers' defense, Yuna didn't look like the previous brunettes.

the FFXII hero, though... *shudders*

02-04-2004, 07:23 PM

Make Yuna's hair black and she looks like the rest. there are slight differenses. But its basically the same style being used over and over.

[ February 04, 2004, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Rattan ]

Dee Emm · 02-04-2004, 07:28 PM

Yuna = Rinoa with a dye job.

imported_mango · 02-04-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord Bill Braska *DM*:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mango:
Final Fantasy The Spirits Within - Square, don't make movies. Ever. Again.

Too late. FFVII: Advent Children's being released later this year, I believe. </font>[/quote]Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Well, it doesn't look that bad, but theres a good chance it will be.

02-04-2004, 08:48 PM

^There's a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999% chance it'll stink.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rattan:
Thats the other problem. People keep comparing it to previous games to the point that they point out so many problems that the other game didn't have they decide the game is the suck. You folks at times sound like old men talking about the good old days.

There was a moron on Gamefaqs who reviewed Chrono Trigger and did the opposite. He compared it to the PS2 RPGs.

Wyborn · 02-04-2004, 09:19 PM

FFIX was actually another example where all the characters looked different, or were itnended to.

Garnet was supposed to be a blonde. God bless Amano.

Anyway, yeah: all of the character designs in FFIX were radically different from each other. In many cases, they were radically different from the final versions (compare Amano's sketch of Vivi to what he ended up looking like...or Steiner, for that matter)

[ February 04, 2004, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Wyborn ]

02-03-2004, 05:56 PM	#1
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a	Seriously. I mean a really good game. I mean a "Oh crap, this is really damn good" game. They've just been going down hill with all of this FFX-2 crap and this FF:CC crap and this FFXI crap and this Chrono Cross crap and this Final Fantasy IX crap and this Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced crap and this Final Fantasy X crap and this LLLUUUCCCCCCAAA!!! crap and whatever else crap. I mean, sure, some of those games were "good", but I want "Square Good". I want "Crap My Pants Because It's So Amasing" good. I want "OMGF WFT SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP THIS GAME IS AWESOME" good. RPGamer posted an editorial about how Squaresoft is now the new Disney, AKA putting out stupid crap instead of something truely creative. You can find it here. Beware, this guy has a lot of spoilers for various games in the article. http://www.rpgamer.com/editor/2004/q1/020304hk.html I think the author of the editorial is on the right track, but I think some of his reasonings are a little stupid. I mean, he basically just nit-picks all of his pet-peeves with recent games, which I think is a silly way to argue that Square is doing down hill. I think it's simplier to say that Square simply isn't trying anymore. Their games just don't have that spark. And they seem content to release this silly junk. Can Final Fantasy XII save them? Do they even HAVE any other game in development right now? I mean, there is nothing from Square that I'm looking forward to, except for maybe FF12. But what else do they have? Um...nothing? Come on, Square. Stop sucking.-jay

02-03-2004, 06:45 PM	#2
Wyborn Zelda Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,388 Thanks: 87 Thanked 469 Times in 281 Posts	FFIX kicked ass, you heretic. And....I dunno about the recent FF games, having not owned a PS2, but FFXII looks really, really nice. It seems to promise the sort of revolution (gameplay-wise) that seperated each Final Fantasy from each other so starkly in the first three generations (1-9). Insofar as Square goes, I'm not actually able to look forward to anything but Crystal Chronicles (which looks awesome to me and my little brother), but FFXII and Kingdom Hearts II look DAMN fine. Hmmm....this gives me an idea.

02-03-2004, 06:54 PM	#3
PenguinMan26 Guest Posts: n/a	Kingdom Hearts and FFTA were awesome.

02-03-2004, 09:27 PM	#4
imported_mango Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Fo shizzle Posts: 1,851 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah, most of the currect Square games have been crap. I thought Kingdom Hearts was the most crapilicious, though. It was way too much of an action adventure game than an RPG

02-03-2004, 09:37 PM	#5
Sim Kid Guest Posts: n/a	I can't decide whether to give you a bag of Jolly Ranchers for what you said about Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2, and Final Fantasy XI or to Burn you at the stake with Mango for what he said about Kigndom Hearts and what you said about Final Fantasy 9 and Final fantasy Tactics Advance. Final Fantasy XII and Kingdom Hearts actually look pretty good. Chain of Memories, meeh, it looks good but I hope the Card-based-combat isn't as annoying as Junctioning or the Sphere Grid.

02-03-2004, 10:14 PM	#6
CaptainJimRaynor Guest Posts: n/a	I halfway agree with Jay. Though the games he and mango listed were definetly NOT crapilicious, we definetly need another groundbreaking RPG. We need a game that will blow our shorts off. We need a game that we'll be talking about years from now. We need another Final Fantasy 6. We need another Chrono Trigger. Us RPG geeks are dying here... GIVE US A GOOD GAME.

02-03-2004, 10:38 PM	#7
Perrin Aybara Guest Posts: n/a	No, I agree with you all that most of the games I listed were "good". But I don't think any of them where "Talking About How Awesome They Are Ten Years From Now" good, like Chrono Trigger and FF3.-jay

02-03-2004, 10:47 PM	#8
Rattan Guest Posts: n/a	FFXI has actually been doing well. They be cashing in on the online market. FFX: Wasn't too bad. It just didn't have enough good elements. FFX-2: Why hath you forsaken us! This piece of ** has been set upon us like a plagued body thrown by an invading army sieging our city. What have we done to ask for this to brought down upon us...long sotry short: IT SUCKS! Yet fanboys bought it so now Square will probably release another **-tastic sequal to an otherwise good game. I think it should be noted that when they don't have regular members of their staff working on the game, they release a very awesome game. Observation: Employed for life is not a good policy at the moment for Square. People like something new once in awhile. But the problem is they still have on board the same guys from 20+ years ago. And some of these guys just aren't changing how they do things. There is hope for FFXII. They have a different staff working on the game and that gives hope for a very fun game.

02-04-2004, 08:44 AM	#10
Rattan Guest Posts: n/a	Thats the other problem. People keep comparing it to previous games to the point that they point out so many problems that the other game didn't have they decide the game is the suck. You folks at times sound like old men talking about the good old days. "In my day, we didn't have fancey FMVs...we had in game events where the characters did stuff and it was amazing!"

02-04-2004, 04:05 PM	#13
imported_mango Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Fo shizzle Posts: 1,851 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, I'll take my stand on all the recent Square games and tell you what I think. And yes, you can not read this and say you did. FFX - I really liked this game, although a lot of people didn't. There wasn't that much to put down about this game, but the only thing that bothered me was the sphere grid system. I would rather gave experience points than the sphere grid system. Overall, this was a good game. FFX-2 - Um.... no. This game was basically just a bunch of sidequests with little to no story. At all. The game was fun, but I wouldn't necessarily say it was a good game. FFXI - Never played it, but I am going to say it is crap because any MMORPG that you pay monthly for is crap. FFTA - This game was okay. I just downloaded the ROM (arrest me) and played it for a little. Never finished it, but all in all, it was an okay game. Kingdom Hearts - Okay, there is no doubt in my mind that this game was crap. The Disney and Square mix just didn't work for me. At all. And I'm a big fan of turn based strategy games, and I pretty much hate Action Adventure games. I personally didn't see many RPG elements in this game. They should have just called it an Action Adventure game. FFIX - It was pretty good, but it wasn't the best. It had a great soundtrack that I bought though. Final Fantasy The Spirits Within - Square, don't make movies. Ever. Again. Goldeneye for N64 - This was the best game ever. Oh, wait...

02-04-2004, 07:17 PM	#15
Super Shy Guy Guest Posts: n/a	Well, in the character designers' defense, Yuna didn't look like the previous brunettes. the FFXII hero, though... shudders

02-04-2004, 07:23 PM	#16
Rattan Guest Posts: n/a	Make Yuna's hair black and she looks like the rest. there are slight differenses. But its basically the same style being used over and over. [ February 04, 2004, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Rattan ]

02-04-2004, 07:28 PM	#17
Dee Emm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Hsawaknow Posts: 5,679 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yuna = Rinoa with a dye job.

02-04-2004, 09:19 PM	#20
Wyborn Zelda Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,388 Thanks: 87 Thanked 469 Times in 281 Posts	FFIX was actually another example where all the characters looked different, or were itnended to. Garnet was supposed to be a blonde. God bless Amano. Anyway, yeah: all of the character designs in FFIX were radically different from each other. In many cases, they were radically different from the final versions (compare Amano's sketch of Vivi to what he ended up looking like...or Steiner, for that matter) [ February 04, 2004, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Wyborn ]