I guess I'm done

[Metal Man]

I've tried, Kyle has pretty much given any suggestion of that the middle finger.

[Sean P Kelly]

I try not to complain too much about the ads, since I do get a cut. I'm sure Kyle uses the revenue for something.

[Metal Man]

Eh. I consider the ads to be stealing from the subsection editors, and from me. That, and they're butt-ugly. And none of the fans like them. And other Mario sites have only a fraction of the amount SMBHQ has. And Kyle has several lucrative blog things for his income anyway. And I, who only has money once or twice a year, can pay (most likely) the bandwidth for a site as large as SMBHQ and the domain name without resorting to a single ad.

There just isn't any excuse for them.

[Gabriel]

I suppose it's a matter of waiting until Kyle has given enough control to you guys that you can get rid of the ads. Then we'll see who's flipping who off!

...That reminds me...does Kyle visit the forums often?

[Sean P Kelly]

Originally Posted by Metal Man

Eh. I consider the ads to be stealing from the subsection editors, and from me. That, and they're butt-ugly. And none of the fans like them. And other Mario sites have only a fraction of the amount SMBHQ has. And Kyle has several lucrative blog things for his income anyway. And I, who only has money once or twice a year, can pay (most likely) the bandwidth for a site as large as SMBHQ and the domain name without resorting to a single ad.

There just isn't any excuse for them.

I'm sure there's a reason Kyle has the ads, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Remember that the bandwidth for the site and the domain is owned by Shane, not Kyle, and I have no idea what sort of deal they have.

Also, I think it's obvious that I'm not as dedicated to the site as I was a decade ago. I wasn't joking when I said I'd retire from the site sooner rather than later. Currently the only thing that keeps me involved with the site is my half of the ad revenue. If the ads go away, it's likely that I will be going away with them.

Right now I'm committed to stay with SMBHQ for at least another year, as I finish school and begin my career. After that, it really depends on how much time I have.

[Metal Man]

Well, actually, you just said why he has the ads now.

Without the ads, you are gone, therefore, my attacks on the ads have been misplaced.

I thank you for the honesty, anyway.

Of course, some of the ads pay for hosting, but, with things as they are, that can't be very much money.

I just wanted some transparency, so we'd know why viagra and liposuction are featured prominently on SMBHQ.

Now we know--so I will no longer attack the ads, as, without them, we do not have you, Sean. (Whom is the only one maintaining the front page--also, I like the new PHP based review layout)

And I also apologize for not figuring this out earlier and unnecessarily attacking the ads and/or Sean when the answer was staring me in the face.

Indeed, I had parts of the answer before, but back when I just wanted to shoot first, ask questions later. That was dumb. Sorry, Sean.

[Rainbow Dash]

jay come back

[Perrin Aybara]

Kyle needs his beer money, ya know.

-jay

[MeowMan]

thats probably it

[KyleOrl]

Lotsa people mentioning me here, so I guess I'll come out of my usual pattern of hiding/neglecting the site and chime in.

Originally Posted by Perrin Aybara

Keeping my name on to give me credit for everything that I've done is appreciated and the best way to go I think. I mainly just didn't want to give people the impression that I still did work for the site.

This is probably the best way to credit me as well, at this point. While I still give Sean input when he requests it and routinely handle business stuff for the site (see discussion of ads, below) I can't remember the last time I did a real update or even seriously considered doing the same. My career as a freelancer, author and then Staff Writer for Crispy Gamer has taken precedence, and it's not fair to give the impression that I still actively do work for the site. Co-Founder/Owner/Editor Emeritus might be the best title at this point.

Originally Posted by Metal Man

Eh. I consider the ads to be stealing from the subsection editors, and from me. That, and they're butt-ugly. And none of the fans like them. And other Mario sites have only a fraction of the amount SMBHQ has. And Kyle has several lucrative blog things for his income anyway. And I, who only has money once or twice a year, can pay (most likely) the bandwidth for a site as large as SMBHQ and the domain name without resorting to a single ad.

There just isn't any excuse for them.

OK then, on to the money stuff. First off, the ads don't actually pay for the hosting/domain registration of the site directly. That's paid for by Shane, apparently in perpetuity, since I haven't been able to contact him for years (even when I need to for administrative stuff) and SMBHQ has stayed up that whole time. Shane does make money off the ads on the forums and on other non-SMBHQ parts of VGF.com, so I guess that makes it worthwhile for him.

So why are there ads, then? Sean hinted at one part: It pays his salary. Sean and I currently have a 50/50 split on the ad revenue, and the 50% that goes to Sean compensates for his time spent updating the site (I won't get into specific numbers -- it's not anybody's business -- but it's not gold-plated caviar money. It's not even live-above-the-poverty-line money, on its own, actually).

As for my 50%, I consider it a return on an investment at this point. For about five years (from 1997-2001) I put a lot of time and effort to creating and updating and turning SMBHQ into what it is. Most of that effort was undertaken for little or no pay at the time, and I was happy to do it because of my love for Mario and the community around him and the site. But that's not to say I never planned to make money off the site, and now that I'm able to, I'm not going to apologize for it. Many business owners and entrepreneurs put money/effort into unprofitable projects in the hopes it will pay off in the future, and that's the way I look at my relationship to SMBHQ at this point.

Does this make the site a little uglier than it would be, ad free? Yes. But really, ads are an integral part of the Internet now. If you can't be bothered to just move your eyes past them quickly, there are ad-blocking add-ons for most major browsers, and I can't stop you from using them.

Is this "stealing" from the subsection editors, as Metal Man alleges? As far as I can remember, no subsection editor has quit over the lack of pay for their work at SMBHQ. If they threatened to do that, I would probably take it under a case by case basis, based on how much work they were doing on the site and how much revenue I felt could be spared for that level of work, much like any business owner would evaluate pay for any employee. In any case, it's not really an issue to be argued out in public.

In short:

Originally Posted by Perrin Aybara

Kyle needs his beer money, ya know.

-jay

Indeed!

Originally Posted by Metal Man

I just wanted some transparency, so we'd know why viagra and liposuction are featured prominently on SMBHQ.

"Featured prominently?" You see ONE link to Liposuction if you scroll ALL THE WAY DOWN to the bottom of the front page, and why the heck are you even looking down there, anyway? If Viagra ads are appearing, it's through one of the ad networks and they are appearing because they get results (I.E., people click on them more often than other ads, so they show up more often). Welcome to the Internet.

Anyway, I hope that has helped re: transparency.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Rodriguez

I suppose it's a matter of waiting until Kyle has given enough control to you guys that you can get rid of the ads. Then we'll see who's flipping who off!

That's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Rodriguez

...That reminds me...does Kyle visit the forums often?

Just often enough, apparently.

[Rainbow Dash]

get out

[Metal Man]

Originally Posted by KyleOrl

Is this "stealing" from the subsection editors, as Metal Man alleges? As far as I can remember, no subsection editor has quit over the lack of pay for their work at SMBHQ. If they threatened to do that, I would probably take it under a case by case basis, based on how much work they were doing on the site and how much revenue I felt could be spared for that level of work, much like any business owner would evaluate pay for any employee. In any case, it's not really an issue to be argued out in public.

Well, this is where your lack of appearing has sort of bitten you in the foot.

SSQ left over the ads and SSS has also left, although over SMBHQ's low activity level rather than ads.

In any case, the problem is no longer relevant, since that now leaves just me and Gage and Sean; Sean's being paid, Gage is content with whatever he's doing (I dunno) and being able to update NC is a reward in itself which requires no money.

Originally Posted by KyleOrl

"Featured prominently?" You see ONE link to Liposuction if you scroll ALL THE WAY DOWN to the bottom of the front page, and why the heck are you even looking down there, anyway? If Viagra ads are appearing, it's through one of the ad networks and they are appearing because they get results (I.E., people click on them more often than other ads, so they show up more often). Welcome to the Internet.

Actually I double-checked and most of the ads I objected to (intellitxt, hideously huge Google ads) have left, although many fans I have spoken to seem to find the inaccuracy of Google's matching distracting. But there's nothing we can do about that, can we?

In short, the passage of time has eroded away most of the relevance of the old boring complaints I threw around, as apparently, they actually did work and did cause things like intellitxt to die a horrible death.

That said, they did us a service in getting you to pay attention for once, as the reason I kept mentioning them was that, for years, I didn't get an answer on them. So even when they eventually resolved themselves, I still wanted an answer, and here we are in 2010.

But now I have an answer, and the two issues are dead. So, to move on to something else...

...What do you plan to do when/if Sean leaves, Kyle?

[Valigarmander]

A WILD KYLE APPEARS

[Perrin Aybara]

Yo KO, how's it go?-jay

[Metal Man]

Although I take one thing back--intellitxt ads are still fouling up the site with obnoxious green links.

But I guess if money is that important, to heck with what viewers think.

Of course, you can get money AND viewers, with these simple steps:

1. Your old content from 1997-2001 was fine when it was made, but in the year 2010, you're beginning to sound like ye olde English man, speaking about games that were made before the current likely generation of people reading the site were born as if they're coming soon/brand new. It should be put together in a unified archive so it's not lost and the effort isn't wasted, but also so people can differentiate old from new without trial and error. The archive can also turn the old timey nature of the old site pieces from a negative to a positive by commenting how they are 'nostalgic' and such.
2. Intellitxt may make more money in the short run, but in the long run, it makes your site have much more in common with Googlebomb/spam sites. Yes, welcome to the internet--the type of internet ad scheme usually associated with shady file sharing sites and worse. This keeps more interesting people away. Guess what?
A. If you remove them, people may want to view the site more.
B. Then if you ensure the proper SEO is done, you get many more visitors.
C. Throw in the consolidation of 'old' content and make new content more like that PHP stuff Sean has programmed, aaaand...
3. You can focus on money while also making the site a nice place to visit.

But it's your site, man. No sweat here, I just don't want SMBHQ to die. I'm sure you don't either, as that'd kind of curtail the amount of money you'd get.

[Gabriel]

^I fail to see where there is a profit in that. Of course, that would be my own goal, but considering my age (too young), and my concept of the value of money (next to none), I might not have the right idea going.

As for the "speaking as though the game is brand new" thing, while I haven't done any field tests, that sounds ideal to me in a way, or rather speaking in a universal way that doesn't chalk a game up to "old relic". Confusion as to the release date of games could be easily resolves by slapping on a "Release date: X" on the page (how easy that is to due, however, I am unsure).

Really, there's a whole slew of things that could be done to improve SMBHQ, NC, VGF...these are the kinds of things I think about.

[Metal Man]

More people visiting SMBHQ = more ad impressions = more money from Google.

On the other hand, less people = less money.

What you do not understand, Gage, is how the ads work.

[t3hDarkness]

Hold the Nerdrage man, nobody pays attention to ads anyway.

[Metal Man]

Ah, I see now. Only nerds are enraged at sudden font changes. You've opened my eyes, Tehdarkness.

I mean, changing fonts are so very cool and I don't see why I'm mad anyway I mean this is just fine and am just hallucinating this being a problem and I am sorry for ever complaining in the first place.

But if I may speak about what I am seeing perhaps you can see why I find intellitxt to be dumb.
Ads that turn random words into links that are really distracting when you try to read the site and just make you want to go somewhere else.

[Sean P Kelly]

Well, I know for a fact that the words the intellitxt ads link to are NOT random. I think it only links pre-defined words like Super Mario and Nintendo