I guess I'm done

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Originally Posted by Metal Man

Ads that turn random words into links that are really distracting when you try to read the site and just make you want to go somewhere else.

If nothing else (regular ads/banners/whathaveyous don't get in my way), you're totally right about this one. Unless otherwise absolutely necessary to be reading their site, I leave pages that have randomly linking text in the main article. I can take ads being plastered around the body of text, but crapping all through it? I'll find somewhere else with the same info, thanks anyway. *shrug*

[CaptHayfever]

Hee, hee.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Metal Man]

Originally Posted by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds

If nothing else (regular ads/banners/whathaveyous don't get in my way), you're totally right about this one. Unless otherwise absolutely necessary to be reading their site, I leave pages that have randomly linking text in the main article. I can take ads being plastered around the body of text, but crapping all through it? I'll find somewhere else with the same info, thanks anyway. *shrug*

Yeah, that's where my dislike of the SMBHQ ads started.

I had no problem with the ads originally. Then, this:

Originally Posted by Kyle

8/24/06 Hey all. Kyle Orland, the prodigal Webmaster, here with an update that will probably annoy a lot of visitors. As you may notice, we've recently signed up with IntelliTXT to provide contextual advertising links inside the text of most all of the pages on SMBHQ. You will notice these as green, double-underlined links that flash a small advertisement when you hover over them. I know they're annoying, but every click helps keep us going at SMBHQ Central, so thanks for your support.

Kyle himself admitted they will probably annoy a lot of visitors. And you can guess what my reaction was (my site consisting of hundreds of pages of text, which now had an entire green glowing field of intellitxt links in them)

Originally Posted by Kyle

8/26/06 We're sorry to report that Super Smash Quest has decided to move off of SMBHQ to its own hosting at MetalMan88.com. After over four years as part of SMBHQ, MetalMan has decided it was time for SSQ to move on and come into its own. MetalMan will continue to write for the Super Smash Stadium occasionally. We wish him and SSQ all the best.

Additionally, Kyle seems to have forgotten the reaction his original ads got from Pat, who was at the time, more or less representing SSS:

Originally Posted by Sean Kelly, 8/11/04 3:23 PM

Hi guys.

Kyle has set up a new ad code that you should ad to you pages.

Add the following code to the BOTTOM of your pages ASAP:
<!--#include virtual="/ads3.htm"-->

Also I created a new copyright code for implementation on the index.html (or similar) file on your pages. Please add this as well. (BTW it should go BEFORE the ad code)
<!--#include virtual="/copyright.html"-->

Finally if you don't have it already, please make sure that the google ad code is at the top of your pages, INCLUDING splash pages.
<!--#include virtual="/ads2.htm"-->

Please make sure that all of these codes are added to your pages ASAP

If you have any questions, feel free to ask

Sean Kelly

P.S. Please tell me when the code is added, so I can go check

This was responded to with

Originally Posted by Pat VanDusen, 8/11/2004 8:31 PM

Ok, TWO ad page codes and a COPYRIGHT code? Just forget that alot of us use different copyrights; this whole idea is bullfeces.


"I haven't lost my temper in 40 years, but pilgrim, you caused a lot of trouble this morning that might have got somebody killed and somebody ought to belt you in the mouth. But I won't. I won't. The hell I won't." ~John Wayne (McClintock)

And he was promptly ignored.

Of course, unlike Pat in the year 2004, I have no problem with banner ads. But intellitxt is just dumb. Random links Precision-guided links that appear on the most likely to be used phrases on a Mario site in text drive away visitors, and if you follow my train of thought, this means less money for Sean and Kyle.

So, in fact, why am I saying this? Go ahead and keep it, by all means. It's your money.

And this by no means completely chronicles the other thing that led to SMBHQ becoming rather deadish: the lack of reporting of subsection updates.

See here, Jay reporting subsection updates. This is a generally active time.

Then... the age of intellitxt begins..

Then... BAM! Good-bye major updates.

Then it becomes about as dead as it is today.

While there's no one reason for SMBHQ's fall into semi-inactivity, having been observing this thing since 1998, I'd think some of what I say has to be true; my eyes and old emails and old SMBHQ updates can't all be deceiving me.

But with that, I've said all I've wanted to say on the matter--nothing new left to speak of. I bet none of this will be resolved, intellitxt ads will remain, and eventually Sean will leave, and possibly be replaced by someone else being paid like him.

On that point, you need not rebut my arguments, for I already know what you're going to say.

"I want my money." "I only work for money." "SMBHQ is the place where my old updates make me money."

I'm just thinking, you could stand to make some more money, that's all.

But, if you don't get it, you don't get it. Can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink.

[pdusen]

Yes, it's me, back from the grave, so to speak.

Quick disclaimer: SSS is no longer part of SMBHQ, but I am no longer on the SSS staff, so my opinion doesn't necessarily represent that of SSS or any of its staff members. My opinion MIGHT represent that of the Sprite Section, but it's still 2005 there, so we can all forgive it.

Originally Posted by KyleOrl

As for my 50%, I consider it a return on an investment at this point. For about five years (from 1997-2001) I put a lot of time and effort to creating and updating and turning SMBHQ into what it is. Most of that effort was undertaken for little or no pay at the time, and I was happy to do it because of my love for Mario and the community around him and the site. But that's not to say I never planned to make money off the site, and now that I'm able to, I'm not going to apologize for it. Many business owners and entrepreneurs put money/effort into unprofitable projects in the hopes it will pay off in the future, and that's the way I look at my relationship to SMBHQ at this point.

Does this make the site a little uglier than it would be, ad free? Yes. But really, ads are an integral part of the Internet now. If you can't be bothered to just move your eyes past them quickly, there are ad-blocking add-ons for most major browsers, and I can't stop you from using them.

Is this "stealing" from the subsection editors, as Metal Man alleges? As far as I can remember, no subsection editor has quit over the lack of pay for their work at SMBHQ. If they threatened to do that, I would probably take it under a case by case basis, based on how much work they were doing on the site and how much revenue I felt could be spared for that level of work, much like any business owner would evaluate pay for any employee. In any case, it's not really an issue to be argued out in public.

Holy crap, do you actually believe this nonsense?

Kyle, let me explain something to you. Back in the day, SMBHQ was great, sure. You did good work and everyone appreciates that. But nothing you did ever came close to the accomplishments of some of your "subsection editors". By far the biggest parts of SMBHQ in your time were NC, which you had no involvement with, and SSS, which you had only marginally started and then handed off. Both of them had, and for a long time continued to have, huge audiences independently of anything going on in your domain. So don't go acting like all of the dusty crap sitting on SMBHQ's front page is some big accomplishment of yours; it's mostly cruft, and the most popular parts of your website had nothing to do with you.

And even before SSS, long before anyone left here even remembers, all of the best parts of your website were things done by other people. SMBHQ used to have a ton more in the way of fan contributions and original entertainment; strangely, none of that good stuff is even on the website anymore. What happened to it, I wonder?

And after SSS? There were folks like Metal and Sean Kelly doing all of the good work around here. You were pretty much gone.

Your only legacy here is slowly letting your website die, first by smothering and ripping off your subsection authors (which may be why the turnover was so damned high), then by smearing disgusting ads and nonsense all over the front page (Believe it or not, there is such a thing as tastefully done ads). You've effectively been raping SMBHQ for the last 8 years. Good job, kemo sabe.

EDIT: Almost forgot... Jay, I know we've had our differences, but I'd like for you to know that I never had anything but admiration for you. In my opinion, you and NC were always the best SMBHQ had to offer. Your loss is a sore blow to the web.

[Gabriel]

Hmm, things are getting aggressive around here...allow me, the wannabe comedian, to interject.

I guess I'll begin with the subject at hand. People like Metal Man seem especially bothered by the ads on the site, in particular those ones that insert themselves into certain Mario-themed words. Now I agree that ads should be as out-of-the-way as possible, if they are at all necessary. Obnoxious ads like those Intellitxt are only a minor bother to me, but a bother nonetheless. At the level it's at right now, it's not enough to scare me away from the site, but I'm not everybody. Those ads mean different things to different people: To Metal Man, they're mostly a waste of space, and he'd like to see them entirely gone, if they weren't the only thing keeping Sean here. To Kyle, they're a way to make a quick buck out of an otherwise fruitless endeavor (this is just how I see it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, guys).

As Metal Man stated, I don't understand ads. So I took a visit to HowStuffWorks to find out. What I learned is that advertisers pay the webmasters when a banner is clicked on, or when a banner is seen, or some other similar method. The method in which Kyle is paid as well as how much money he gets could be helpful in determining a solution to all this bickering.

Also, welcome to VGF, pdusen! Enjoy your stay.

[Metal Man]

Sort of exaggerating my position there, Gabriel--if anything I just want the Intellitxt gone and replaced with trying to get more people to see the existing ads. Thus making the intellitxt useless and earning more money.

[Sean P Kelly]

Originally Posted by Metal Man

And this by no means completely chronicles the other thing that led to SMBHQ becoming rather deadish: the lack of reporting of subsection updates.

See here, Jay reporting subsection updates. This is a generally active time.

Then... the age of intellitxt begins..

Then... BAM! Good-bye major updates.

Then it becomes about as dead as it is today.

While there's no one reason for SMBHQ's fall into semi-inactivity, having been observing this thing since 1998, I'd think some of what I say has to be true; my eyes and old emails and old SMBHQ updates can't all be deceiving me.

You sound too much like a conspiracy theorist at the best of times.

For starters, December 2005 was NOT an active time. Actually, this is around the time I am beginning to have less time for the site (I started University September 2005) and Jay was on his way out.

There were many different phases of SMBHQ:

• The Beginning Phase (1997 - 2001): Kyle was webmaster from the start of the site in August 1997 until he stepped down in October 2001. At the time Kyle stepped down, the updates were FAR less frequent than they are now (i.e. once every three months).
• The Jay Phase (2001 - 2004): Jay saved the site from permanent inactivity and took over the webmaster duties. His updates generally consisted of reporting subsection updates and not much else. This phase is pretty much the peak of the site.
• The Jay and Sean Phase (2004 - 2006): As a staff member, I always helped Jay behind the scenes and I was officially made co-webmaster in 2004.
• The Problem Phase (2006 - 2007): Jay steps down as a full-time webmaster and I am on my own (and Kyle coincidently begins the Intellitxt). School is really taking a toll on the updates and Kyle begins to notice. The phase ends when I step down and am replaced by MetalMan.
• The Sean and Metal Phase (2007): Because the ad revenue was my only source of income, I promised myself to become more committed to the site and I returned the next day to be a co-webmaster with Metalman. You pretty much know how that turned out, so I won't go any further.
• The Weekly Phase (2007 - 2009): I had a renewed commitment to the site and tried to make sure to update the site once a week. I manage to keep it up for about two years.
• The Current Phase (2009 - Present): There are many reasons for why the updates have gone back to being bi-weekly or less, however it essentially boils down to the fact that I am now in my late 20s and life is beginning to take over big time.

As for the whole subsection thing during my time as webmaster, with the exception of SSS, there was no section that even came close to updating regularly (that includes, up until recently, NC). If you look at all the subsections run by an editor, there are some that have haven't been updated in 2-3 years (I could always vacate the section and look for a new editor, but no one ever applies). I used to regularly check for section updates to report, but I eventually stopped when I frequently saw that there were none.

[pdusen]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Rodriguez

Also, welcome to VGF, pdusen! Enjoy your stay.

Thank you kindly, but I doubt I will post much here. I mostly came to throw in my two cents about Kyle and SMBHQ's history.

[Metal Man]

Look, Sean, there's no point in arguing with me, we both agree about Kyle and the money. It's six one way half-a-dozen another, and I can just as easily use your timeline in place of mine. (In that, while we have slightly different opinions about how SMBHQ got to how it is today, we have no real argument as to what's up now.) We should use our words here for more productive things.

After all, I'm sure you'd like to make more money--all the better if it also made SMBHQ better, right?

[Gabriel]

^^Hrmn. I see you failed to recognize me sarcasm. I expected you to either ignore me or attack me.

As I said, you should correct me where I'm wrong. I'm making assumptions along with what I know. Also, like Metal Man said, we should not focus on the past, and what led us to now, but instead on what you can do to improve our current situation.

Right here I would suggest Sean get some sort of real job, but since I don't know at all what his skills are, or his priorities, I can't make any useful comments here.

As for Kyle, he doesn't seem to be doing anything for the site other than selling adspace (again, correct me if I'm wrong), I'd suggest he hand off control of the site to somebody who'll be better off for the good of the site, or whatever the site is trying to accomplish.

Metal Man seems to be busy enough just trying to keep NC active. I thing you should find some people who would be able to replace/assist Sean.

One more time, feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, fact-wise.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

In addition to my previous post, I have to tell you that these "intellitxt" things make a site seem untrustworthy. Seriously. Ads shouldn't be invasive on your main content. And not seem like they'll give my computer a pile of viruses if I go near them The execution of intellitxt does make me feel like they're going to infect my computer. Why? Because it behaves too similarly to adware.

[Perrin Aybara]

I agree with everyone who has said that the ads are pretty lame. Especially the intellitxt ones. I ultimately agree with Kyle though that it's his site, his baby, so he can do what he wants with it.

Thanks Pat. I don't even remember any of our differences. I only remember the good times. So you're cool in my book.

-jay

[Sean P Kelly]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Rodriguez

Right here I would suggest Sean get some sort of real job, but since I don't know at all what his skills are, or his priorities, I can't make any useful comments here.

My best contributions to site came during a 2 year period between 2003 and 2005.

You know why? I was failing miserably at my post college job search and I spent the better part of two years sitting at home and twiddling my thumbs.

My lack of job search success is a big sore spot for me and damn you for opening up those wounds.

EDIT: Maybe this a bit too angry of a response, but truly you really shouldn't make judgments about the personal life of a guy you only know through a forum.

[Metal Man]

Eh, it's not just you, Sean. Gabriel also annoys Pat and me.

And I don't have a real job either. Bleh.

In my case, not so much due to him making personal judgments on me, but rather trying to second-guess my confusing-at-times modus operandi. Just muddles things more than they need to be, especially when I've already said it all.

Pat on the other hand didn't appreciate it when Gabriel assumed he was some sort of mindless flaming machine, since I know Pat, and he, like me, has moved a long way from the roots of yelling at people for no reason.

In any case, what has been said has been said, and it's up to Kyle if he makes any changes at all, but I appreciate the support from SD and Pat, as it has been lonely business trying to explain that, whether or not they're kept, the Intellitxt ads may be counter-productive.

In any case, whatever happens from here on out, happens. I'm just gonna be updating NC; if Kyle really doesn't care, then, what can I say? He made the site, it's his to stick ads on. I just was hoping I might sway him to make his site closer to the one I used to remember being 'The cool place to see Mario stuff' with many subsections and only banner ads. But as time goes on, I see that was only possible with Jay, who is gone now; and while I could try to emulate Jay, I don't have that kind of time either. So I'll just move on to my other projects, while continuing to do my SMBHQ business.

Which will include the occasional game review and perhaps, if you will allow it, Mailbag answering. Since you finally made it so Game reviews aren't crushed, Sean.

[pdusen]

Originally Posted by Metal Man

Pat on the other hand didn't appreciate it when Gabriel assumed he was some sort of mindless flaming machine, since I know Pat, and he, like me, has moved a long way from the roots of yelling at people for no reason.

Also, his socks don't match. That always gets me.

[Gabriel]

Sorry about hurting your feelings Sean, but I seem to be a professional at it. Oftentimes I seem to hurt somebody when I'm trying to help. With that in mind, be wary of this next sentence: You shouldn't let what other people say get to you, especially if they have no idea what they're talking about. And I should learn to watch what I say, especially when I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Talking about the ad situation seems to be getting on people's nerves, so I think I'll go find a better waste of my time.