(Small) Complaint about Super Mario Bros. Wii

[Speed]

Needs more Boo as playable character.

[PK FIRE!]

Now that's how you break a platformer!

- You stupid dog.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Originally Posted by Metal Mario

They weren't called Toads then, though. The first appearance of a character called Toad was SMB 2.

No, they weren't (there, arguably, wasn't Toad back then). Point being, they used the same sprite, yet were all considered different persons. There weren't any different coloured Toads, or Mushroom People, back then. There wasn't a specific way to say, "THAT'S the REAL Toad!" as he would've been indistinguishable from the other known Mushroom People. See what I mean?

And after all that, the colours are on their hat and shirt. The "real" Toad might change what colour hat he wears sometimes. I mean, in the opening scene of NSMBW, there are two red Toads at the party (they fire the new items out of the cannon). Is one of those the "real" Toad, and one a filthy fraud? Were all his clothes in the wash, so he borrowed some of the "real" Toad's clothes for the party? XD

Finally, the ultimate reason they used the Toads, and gave them different colours:

• They would be at Peach's birthday party, as her loyal subjects
• They would want to SAVE her when she's kidnapped
• In a four player game, it can be hard enough to figure out which sprite is yours- they made each character a completely different colour so it would be easier to tell who you are on screen

Wario and Waluigi wouldn't make sense in the story they put in the game. What would they be doing at Peach's birthday party? They wouldn't be there. They simply wouldn't. And they certainly wouldn't give a crap about saving her from Bowser Jr, either.

Didn't have time to mention this earlier;

Which is why they called the game Mario Bros.

Well, SMB2 was Super Mario Bros. 2, and you can play as Mario, Luigi, Toad or Princess Toadstool. I wouldn't imagine they were "bros" to Mario, despite the name of the game.




But really. You're all upset that the yellow and blue Toads are "generic", or some other rubbish excuse. It's not like Mario or Luigi have any character or personality in the game. Putting in Sprite A instead of Sprite B isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to the gameplay at all (unless we're still talking colours, and I already explained why you need different coloured sprites in a multiplayer game like that). There's reasonable explanations why Nintendo chose Toads over other possibilities. You don't get anything different from playing as any particular character. So are you really all looking so hard for something to dislike? Do you all hate having fun, too?

[the Octopus]

Originally Posted by Metal Mario

^^^You forgot that



led to



which still thrives as

Well, no I didn't. It wasn't my intention to reference every Mario series ever made. And you've missed the premise - DKC has practically nothing to do with DK, or especially the bongo games. Those are all parts of various series in a franchise that occasionally crosses over with Mario. DK got sequels in DKJr, DK3, DK1994, and since then they've reopened it with Mario vs Donkey Kong. DKC is a seperate series that translated into the unimpressive DK64 last anyone noticed, and inspired DKR which became another game in a would-be series that never received its next installment. The bongo/rhythm games are yet another separate series in the franchise, which in recent times have been mashed together with racing and other themes to become something entirely different.

And as far as I can tell about all of the griping about the Toads goes, apparently the only reason why Luigi is so exceptional to the "generic palette swap" is because he was given a title. I can understand the fondness for the older cartoon and comics, but neither was actually created by Nintendo, and have unfortunately been ignored.

I have to say I don't see any particular reason to take affront to Nintendo not catering to your personal tastes, the Toads are more interesting to me in NSMB than Mario or Luigi manage to be, as NPCs and even as PCs. I found it particularily entertaining to watch them go leaping after the Princess as though they were equals to the famed Mario bros.




And that jab about the "Bros." in the title isn't especially defensible. It neglects to reference Luigi directly, and I could just as easily mention Super Smash Bros. You're going to tell me that Samus is related to Kirby, now?

[JaredThaJa888]

It would be better if they'd at least given the Toads names.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Richard and Nikolas. There you go. They have names now.

[the Octopus]

They're all named Toad. Seriously, it's hilarious that you would be so superficial.

[Robotazy]

But how could you pick them out of a group?

Ok, Toads 1, 2, and 3 you take the front line. Oh, wait did I say "3"? I meant "57".

Also, Luigi has a personality. He never really gained popularity until at least the SNES era.

[Valigarmander]

But how old are they? Where were they born? What's their favorite colors?

[Metal Mario]

For the record, I'm not upset about two Mushroom People being playable in the game. I'm just trying to set you people straight about who's Toad and who isn't.

Originally Posted by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds

No, they weren't (there, arguably, wasn't Toad back then). Point being, they used the same sprite, yet were all considered different persons. There weren't any different coloured Toads, or Mushroom People, back then. There wasn't a specific way to say, "THAT'S the REAL Toad!" as he would've been indistinguishable from the other known Mushroom People. See what I mean?

You're right, there was no "Toad" in Super Mario Bros. The character called Toad didn't appear until SMB 2, which is what I already said.

And after all that, the colours are on their hat and shirt. The "real" Toad might change what colour hat he wears sometimes. I mean, in the opening scene of NSMBW, there are two red Toads at the party (they fire the new items out of the cannon). Is one of those the "real" Toad, and one a filthy fraud? Were all his clothes in the wash, so he borrowed some of the "real" Toad's clothes for the party? XD

In Super Mario RPG, there are a ton of Mushroom People with red spots and blue vests, but only one of them is identified specifically as Toad. This shows that there can be many Mushroom People who look identical, even though only one of them is Toad. (Check out Super Mario 64 and Luigi's Mansion for more examples of red-spotted, blue-vested Mushroom People who aren't Toad.)

Additionally, I've always thought of the spotted mushroom caps as being biological. I've never seen any official material from Nintendo themselves that represents the mushroom caps as articles of clothing.

SMB2 was Super Mario Bros. 2, and you can play as Mario, Luigi, Toad or Princess Toadstool. I wouldn't imagine they were "bros" to Mario, despite the name of the game.

SMB 2 was a direct sequel to SMB, which was a sequel to Mario Bros. (the word "Super" stands in for a sequel number in this case, just as it would many times during the Super NES era with Super Metroid, Super Bomberman, etc.), which was called Mario Bros. because Mario had a brother in that game (as opposed to a palette swap that appeared out of thin air when he picked up the Four Sword).

Originally Posted by The Bureau

And that jab about the "Bros." in the title isn't especially defensible. It neglects to reference Luigi directly, and I could just as easily mention Super Smash Bros. You're going to tell me that Samus is related to Kirby, now?

Super Smash Bros. is a parody of/reference to the title Super Mario Bros., which was a sequel to Mario Bros, which was called Mario Bros. because Mario had a brother in the game (as opposed to a palette swap that appeared out of thin air when he picked up the Four Sword).

[Luigiman7]

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

What's their favorite colors?

Yellow and blue.

[Robotazy]

I see that it is more probable for both to exist. Toad is most certainly mention in SMB2, the Mario Party series in general, and as the main character in Wario's Woods.

Also, I can't believe we're going into an argument about Luigi. He was a pallette swap. He isn't anymore.

[Antisocial]

I thought this was a "small" complaint.

It would also be really funny to see these two generic Toads gain status.

[CaptHayfever]

Originally Posted by The Bureau

They're all named Toad. Seriously, it's hilarious that you would be so superficial.

Sounds like a good Marklar to me. How about you, Marklar?

And remember, "I'm-a Marklar, number one!"

[the Octopus]

I'm cool with that, Marklar.


Bee tee dubs, how is a generic palette swap better just because someone gave it a name. I mean, if that title basically translates to "the other mario who is identical to the first except he wears green clothes instead" it doesn't somehow make him not a palette swap.



The title Mario Bros. only applies to mean that there is a correlation between the two, and that they exist simulaneously. If you'll notice, there's nothing about the screenshots that states an individual name for Luigi, and we can therefore assume, based on the title that they are both Marios at this point. One is 1 and the other is 2. Luigi isn't granted a name or a specific identity until SMB, when his name appears onscreen and in print. It's only on the side of the cabinet that he is given a title, as an afterthought, in the instance of this first game. At that point, we had no background information for Luigi. He is identity-less. Mario is familiar, but he has only appeared in one or two games up to that point, with an entirely different identity.

And the Toad argument is moot, Nintendo can't make up their minds if they want one Toad or several Toads. You can chalk it up to confusing use of the term in translation. It's entirely likely that they are called Toads and possibly also Mushroom People in Japan, and that the terms are applied in such a way that is not simple to translate. Much of translation is dependent on context of use. If its context of use is appropriate in both single situations or plurals, as Nintendo of Japan has obviously used the term over time, then we would be correct for assuming that the term Toad applies to all individuals in the Mushroom Kingdom unless stated otherwise, and that the initial design for Toad in SMB2 was in fact a member of or relation to those who were rescued in the first SMB. Its singular use would have confused English-speakers, especially as a single Toad character has been depicted by the original translation of SMB2. Referential products would then be created, and Nintendo would use this as a springboard for future translations, before Nintendo attempted to better unify their names and themes.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Originally Posted by Metal Mario

For the record, I'm not upset about two Mushroom People being playable in the game. I'm just trying to set you people straight about who's Toad and who isn't.

You can't tell. Not unless the game specifically states it, since the other standard Mushroom People all look exactly alike. XD

So, no, you're not trying to tell me anything. We already agree. It's those other jerks, who hate Toads and having fun. Yeah, we should toss 'em all out the window. That'll fix 'em. Then we'll have all the Mario to ourselves. YEAH.

[X-3]

Don't do it, Metal Mario! She's trying to lure you to the 'shady, but perhaps not completely evil' side!

[Metal Mario]

Originally Posted by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds

You can't tell. Not unless the game specifically states it, since the other standard Mushroom People all look exactly alike. XD

Neither of the playable Mushroom People have red spots and a blue vest, so neither one of them is Toad.

As for all the other Mushroom People in games like SMRPG and SM 64, portrayed identically with red spots and blue vests, I always assume them to be generics unless they're specifically identified as "Toad" (as opposed to "a Toad").


This guy is Toad, because the Toad has been playable in Mario sports titles ever since Super Mario Kart.


This guy might be Toad, but only if he's designated as such. Otherwise he's probably just another generic Mushroom Person.


This guy isn't Toad. He's just one of many generic Mushroom People you meet in the original SMB.

[Dark Seraphim]

^
This is your brain.

This is your brain on Toad.

Any questions?

[Metal Mario]

Originally Posted by Dark Seraphim

^
This is your brain.

This is your brain on Toad.

Any questions?

Click to view video.