Anyone notice the decline of quality of flying items in Mario?

Dark Seraphim · 11-19-2009, 11:03 AM

Now flying items have been available in the Maro Franchise since, first I can remember, Mario Bros. 3 with the Raccoon Leaf, and although many spin-offs have had them, I've noticed as far as the main franchise goes, MB3, SMB, M64, and SMBW that the items seems to, in each incarnation, take a decline in use and quality. Maybe this is just personal opinion, but let's compare those four games and their flying items in succession:

Raccoon Leaf: Featured in Mario Bros. 3, the Raccoon Leaf gave the user a raccoon tail that not only gave the user unlimited diagonal flight, but also give the user the ability to spin and use the tail to hit anything horizontal to the user. All the user needed was a running start, and unlike future incarnations, the flight control was very simple and required virtually no skill to use as long as the user didn't lose momentum. The item also has two upgrades, the Power Wing, which gives the user eternal momentum for one level, so even if there isn't running room you can still fly with ease, and the Tanuki Suit, a full body version of the Raccoon Tail/Ears that also lets the user crouch to enter a defensive/unkillable mode for a few seconds. This item was very easy to use, versitile, and powerful, and IMO the stronges flight item in the series.

Feather Cape: After the Raccoon Leaf, the Feather Cape was the next flight item, introduced this time on the SNES in Super Mario Bros. It was very similiar to the Raccoon Tail, and really in more comparable than weaker, although I still personally think the Raccoon Leaf is stronger. Like the Raccoon Leaf, Mario could spin and attack foes horizontal to him, and use it to slow his momentum when dropping. He could also use it to fly, however unlike the Raccoon Leaf elevation was a lot more difficult and it required quite more skill to use correctly, although it did provide a powerful slam attack in exchange for ease of use. Honestly they are both really good, I just think the Raccoon Leaf was better for creativity (raccoon tail vs just a cape) and ease of use.

Flight Cap: First flight weapon of the 3-D Mario engine, this one was a sharp decline from the Raccoon Leaf and Cape. First of all, take-off was a lot more complicated, it wasn't really enough to just have momentum, you needed that and usually a triple jump to get off the ground. Elevation was also a lot more tricky, and wasn't as natural as with the other items. In addition, the item was the first of the timed flight items, giving you only a sparse time limit to get done whatever you needed to get done, making any use of it having to be hurried otherwise you'd run out of time. The difficulty of this item seemed to be why I personally don't like it. Mario Galaxy did seem to improve on the cocnept, but in the end the two items were so similiar I didn't bother giving the Galaxy flight item its own description.

Propeller Suit: In the most recent Mario incarnation, Super Mario Bros. Wii, we're introduced to a new flight item with whole new mechanics in comparison to the previous items, the Propeller Suit. Personally, although I find the item useful in the context of the game, I think its the weirdest and most useless in comparison to the other flight items in the Mario genre. FIrst of all, it looks silly, which is saying a lot when Mario's sported wings on his cap and raccoon ears, but its a completely useless bright orange track suit, with a large helmet with a large propeller on the top. Even use is the use animation, Mario spins up, then is kicking around strangely as he dangles from his neck it seems, looks uncomfortable. IN addition to that, of all the flight items this one offers the least amount of actual flight, the Raccoon offered unlimited flight, the Cape unlimited flight with careful skill, the Cap with somewhat limited flight but ability to remain in the air and elevate, but the Propeller Suit only shoots you straight up and then drifts you down. Worse, the sensitive Wii controls can sometimes shoot you up when you didn't even want to, cauing you to be put into a difficult or deadly situation just because the controller registered a shake. I mean it is a useful item, and good for platforming, but in comparison to the Raccoon and Cape it seems like a sharp decline and quality.

This is just my opinion though.

**Valigarmander** · 11-19-2009, 11:20 AM

There was also the Bee Suit and the Flying Star (I forget what it was called) in Super Mario Galaxy. The Bee Suit let you fly a little and climb up honeycomb walls, but you'd lose the power if you touched water. The Flying Star was pretty awesome, but you only got to use it twice (once for Purple Coins, the other for fun).

**Cravdraa** · 11-19-2009, 12:59 PM

Don't forget the boo suit, which allowed for unlimited flight (as long as you stayed out of the light.)

Then there's the often forgotten Bunny suit, but I'm not sure that counts since it only let mario jump higher and hover or slow his descent.

Personally, I think the cape was a lot stronger than the racoon tail. You could fly through entire stages with it. You couldn't do that in smb3 unless you used a P-wing, which was more of a special case that let you skip levels.

Metal Mario · 11-19-2009, 01:30 PM

To this day, there are some levels in Super Mario World that I still just fly straight through with the "para-sailing" technique.

JaredThaJa888 · 11-19-2009, 03:23 PM

I like the Raccoon suit best to, for thing it typifies the ridiculousness of Mario, cause Raccoon's can't play, and their no associated with Leafs. Only the Bunny suit inherited this quality, but wasn't really flying as someone said.

Also the reasons you mentioned are good too, but mostly I'm very nostalgic when it comes to video games. And the Totonki suit and P Wing upgrades of it where cool rare bonuses.

Luigiman7 · 11-19-2009, 04:28 PM

Really, Propeller Suit is my favorite so far. I didn't like the Flight Cap, though. It was crap.

Dark Seraphim · 11-19-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xX~Luigi_Man~Xx

I didn't like the Flight Cap, though. It was crap.

Yeah I didn't like the Flight Cap as well.

Quote:

Really, Propeller Suit is my favorite so far.

Yeah, the propeller suit is useful, I still like the Raccoon Leaf more . . . but doesn't it make Mario look . . . really, really silly? A bright orange track suit and a 'special bus' helmet? Why does he even need the track suit anyway?

**Valigarmander** · 11-19-2009, 04:48 PM

The Winged Cap took a lot of skill to master, and even then it didn't let you fly as much as it just let you fall with style.

The Cape also takes a while to get the hang of, but is potentially one of Mario's most powerful flight powerups. Not only could you spin to attack enemies on the ground and fly through the air, but you could also slam back into the earth and destroy every enemy on the screen. BOOM.

Metal Mario · 11-19-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaredThaJa888

I like the Raccoon suit best to, for thing it typifies the ridiculousness of Mario, cause Raccoon's can't fly, and their no associated with Leafs.

The raccoon concept in SMB 3 is based on the magical raccoon in Japanese mythology, which can fly, change its shape, and is somehow (I believe) associated with a leaf.

Bomby · 11-19-2009, 10:12 PM

What about the Bunny Ears from SML 2: 6 Golden Coins...

...

... well, I guess those were more for floating...

Antisocial · 11-19-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Mario

The raccoon concept in SMB 3 is based on the magical raccoon in Japanese mythology, which can fly, change its shape, and is somehow (I believe) associated with a leaf.

The tanuki, you mean. This explanation makes it pretty strange that SMB3 would feature two power-ups based on the same concept (i.e. The Super Leaf and the Tanooki Suit).

I'm also still trying to wrap my brain around how a raccoon tail got associated with the power of flight.

Luigiman7 · 11-22-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Seraphim

Yeah, the propeller suit is useful, I still like the Raccoon Leaf more . . . but doesn't it make Mario look . . . really, really silly? A bright orange track suit and a 'special bus' helmet? Why does he even need the track suit anyway?

I like it not because it's stylish, because it's useful. You fall down a hole and whooosh, you come back up. Saved me from death a bunch of times. Can any of the other items do that? I don't think so.

PK FIRE! · 11-22-2009, 07:14 PM

I recall hearing once that the Tanuki required use of a leaf in it's transformaation not sure if that's true though it would explaine the leaf connection.

- You stupid dog.

**Valigarmander** · 11-22-2009, 07:26 PM

Tanuki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

A popular tale known as Bunbuku chagama is about a tanuki who fooled a monk by transforming into a tea-kettle. Another is about a tanuki who tricked a hunter by disguising his arms as tree boughs, until he spread both arms at the same time and fell off the tree. Tanuki are said to cheat merchants with leaves they have magically disguised as paper money. Some stories describe tanuki as using leaves as part of their own shape-shifting magic.

Tanuki's have been associated with leaves because it's what they use to transform. One of the most famous transformations a tanuki can make is into stone or a statue (hence, the Tanooki Suit).

Also, you can see the familiar leaf on the tanuki-inspired Tanoomba enemies from the M&L games.

For more fun: TMK | Mario in Japan | Super Mario Bros. 3

Metal Mario · 11-22-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

A popular tale known as Bunbuku chagama is about a tanuki who fooled a monk by transforming into a tea-kettle.

That might also explain why Mario seems to transform into a statue of a monk when he uses the Tanooki Suit.

**Valigarmander** · 11-22-2009, 08:02 PM

Funny story: when I was a kid, me and my younger sister and brother called the Tanooki Suit the "Teddy Bear Costume", because it looked sort of like a teddy bear from the item select.

JaredThaJa888 · 11-22-2009, 08:58 PM

I was replaying SM64 some just now, and I hate the Winged Cap.

CuccoLady · 11-22-2009, 10:48 PM

I love the Winged Cap and the Flying Star because they are the only flying upgrades that give the player a sense of actually flying. I mean, I don't really care if the interface is crap, I just want to fly. I would just spam Galaxy's flying star about five times at the observatory before actually going and getting a star just because it felt so dang COOL. Same with the Winged Cap. *shrug*

JaredThaJa888 · 11-22-2009, 11:53 PM

I don't see the point of flying if it's so damn hard to control where I go, even the Cape was easier to control.

Dark Seraphim · 11-22-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaredThaJa888

I don't see the point of flying if it's so damn hard to control where I go, even the Cape was easier to control.

The Raccoon Tail was the easiest in my opinion, all you had to do was keep wagging your tail to keep afloat, you didn't have to worry about pulling back or anything at just the right time.

11-19-2009, 11:03 AM	#1
Dark Seraphim Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Gender: Posts: 431 Thanks: 4 Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts	Anyone notice the decline of quality of flying items in Mario? Now flying items have been available in the Maro Franchise since, first I can remember, Mario Bros. 3 with the Raccoon Leaf, and although many spin-offs have had them, I've noticed as far as the main franchise goes, MB3, SMB, M64, and SMBW that the items seems to, in each incarnation, take a decline in use and quality. Maybe this is just personal opinion, but let's compare those four games and their flying items in succession: Raccoon Leaf: Featured in Mario Bros. 3, the Raccoon Leaf gave the user a raccoon tail that not only gave the user unlimited diagonal flight, but also give the user the ability to spin and use the tail to hit anything horizontal to the user. All the user needed was a running start, and unlike future incarnations, the flight control was very simple and required virtually no skill to use as long as the user didn't lose momentum. The item also has two upgrades, the Power Wing, which gives the user eternal momentum for one level, so even if there isn't running room you can still fly with ease, and the Tanuki Suit, a full body version of the Raccoon Tail/Ears that also lets the user crouch to enter a defensive/unkillable mode for a few seconds. This item was very easy to use, versitile, and powerful, and IMO the stronges flight item in the series. Feather Cape: After the Raccoon Leaf, the Feather Cape was the next flight item, introduced this time on the SNES in Super Mario Bros. It was very similiar to the Raccoon Tail, and really in more comparable than weaker, although I still personally think the Raccoon Leaf is stronger. Like the Raccoon Leaf, Mario could spin and attack foes horizontal to him, and use it to slow his momentum when dropping. He could also use it to fly, however unlike the Raccoon Leaf elevation was a lot more difficult and it required quite more skill to use correctly, although it did provide a powerful slam attack in exchange for ease of use. Honestly they are both really good, I just think the Raccoon Leaf was better for creativity (raccoon tail vs just a cape) and ease of use. Flight Cap: First flight weapon of the 3-D Mario engine, this one was a sharp decline from the Raccoon Leaf and Cape. First of all, take-off was a lot more complicated, it wasn't really enough to just have momentum, you needed that and usually a triple jump to get off the ground. Elevation was also a lot more tricky, and wasn't as natural as with the other items. In addition, the item was the first of the timed flight items, giving you only a sparse time limit to get done whatever you needed to get done, making any use of it having to be hurried otherwise you'd run out of time. The difficulty of this item seemed to be why I personally don't like it. Mario Galaxy did seem to improve on the cocnept, but in the end the two items were so similiar I didn't bother giving the Galaxy flight item its own description. Propeller Suit: In the most recent Mario incarnation, Super Mario Bros. Wii, we're introduced to a new flight item with whole new mechanics in comparison to the previous items, the Propeller Suit. Personally, although I find the item useful in the context of the game, I think its the weirdest and most useless in comparison to the other flight items in the Mario genre. FIrst of all, it looks silly, which is saying a lot when Mario's sported wings on his cap and raccoon ears, but its a completely useless bright orange track suit, with a large helmet with a large propeller on the top. Even use is the use animation, Mario spins up, then is kicking around strangely as he dangles from his neck it seems, looks uncomfortable. IN addition to that, of all the flight items this one offers the least amount of actual flight, the Raccoon offered unlimited flight, the Cape unlimited flight with careful skill, the Cap with somewhat limited flight but ability to remain in the air and elevate, but the Propeller Suit only shoots you straight up and then drifts you down. Worse, the sensitive Wii controls can sometimes shoot you up when you didn't even want to, cauing you to be put into a difficult or deadly situation just because the controller registered a shake. I mean it is a useful item, and good for platforming, but in comparison to the Raccoon and Cape it seems like a sharp decline and quality. This is just my opinion though.

11-19-2009, 04:28 PM	#6
Luigiman7 ヽ(◔ ◡ ◔)ノ.･ﾟ*｡･+☆ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: ~)´◡｀(~ Gender: Posts: 17,605 Thanks: 1,134 Thanked 1,012 Times in 713 Posts Blog Entries: 8	Really, Propeller Suit is my favorite so far. I didn't like the Flight Cap, though. It was crap. __________________ ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ＷＯＮ’Ｔ　ＹＯＵ　ＢＥＣＯＭＥ　Ａ　ＭＡＧＩＣＡＬ　ＧＩＲＬ？

11-19-2009, 11:20 AM	#2
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	There was also the Bee Suit and the Flying Star (I forget what it was called) in Super Mario Galaxy. The Bee Suit let you fly a little and climb up honeycomb walls, but you'd lose the power if you touched water. The Flying Star was pretty awesome, but you only got to use it twice (once for Purple Coins, the other for fun).

11-19-2009, 12:59 PM	#3
Cravdraa VGF RPG Mod Join Date: May 2001 Location: It's Round on the sides and high in the middle. Gender: Posts: 8,470 Thanks: 171 Thanked 662 Times in 404 Posts	Don't forget the boo suit, which allowed for unlimited flight (as long as you stayed out of the light.) Then there's the often forgotten Bunny suit, but I'm not sure that counts since it only let mario jump higher and hover or slow his descent. Personally, I think the cape was a lot stronger than the racoon tail. You could fly through entire stages with it. You couldn't do that in smb3 unless you used a P-wing, which was more of a special case that let you skip levels.

11-19-2009, 01:30 PM	#4
Metal Mario Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Gender: Posts: 16,435 Thanks: 72 Thanked 190 Times in 127 Posts	To this day, there are some levels in Super Mario World that I still just fly straight through with the "para-sailing" technique.

11-19-2009, 03:23 PM	#5
JaredThaJa888 Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Racine Wisconsin Gender: Posts: 676 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts	I like the Raccoon suit best to, for thing it typifies the ridiculousness of Mario, cause Raccoon's can't play, and their no associated with Leafs. Only the Bunny suit inherited this quality, but wasn't really flying as someone said. Also the reasons you mentioned are good too, but mostly I'm very nostalgic when it comes to video games. And the Totonki suit and P Wing upgrades of it where cool rare bonuses.

11-19-2009, 04:48 PM	#8
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	The Winged Cap took a lot of skill to master, and even then it didn't let you fly as much as it just let you fall with style. The Cape also takes a while to get the hang of, but is potentially one of Mario's most powerful flight powerups. Not only could you spin to attack enemies on the ground and fly through the air, but you could also slam back into the earth and destroy every enemy on the screen. *BOOM*.

11-19-2009, 10:12 PM	#10
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	What about the Bunny Ears from SML 2: 6 Golden Coins... ... ... well, I guess those were more for floating...

11-22-2009, 07:14 PM	#13
PK FIRE! Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 9,544 Thanks: 175 Thanked 150 Times in 120 Posts	I recall hearing once that the Tanuki required use of a leaf in it's transformaation not sure if that's true though it would explaine the leaf connection. - You stupid dog.

11-22-2009, 08:02 PM	#16
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Funny story: when I was a kid, me and my younger sister and brother called the Tanooki Suit the "Teddy Bear Costume", because it looked sort of like a teddy bear from the item select.

11-22-2009, 08:58 PM	#17
JaredThaJa888 Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Racine Wisconsin Gender: Posts: 676 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts	I was replaying SM64 some just now, and I hate the Winged Cap.

11-22-2009, 10:48 PM	#18
CuccoLady Anime and Cartoons Mod Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: THIS LOCATION REMINDS ME OF A PUZZLE, LUKE Gender: Posts: 9,077 Thanks: 2,825 Thanked 1,222 Times in 822 Posts	I love the Winged Cap and the Flying Star because they are the only flying upgrades that give the player a sense of actually flying. I mean, I don't really care if the interface is crap, I just want to fly. I would just spam Galaxy's flying star about five times at the observatory before actually going and getting a star just because it felt so dang COOL. Same with the Winged Cap. shrug

11-22-2009, 11:53 PM	#19
JaredThaJa888 Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Racine Wisconsin Gender: Posts: 676 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts	I don't see the point of flying if it's so damn hard to control where I go, even the Cape was easier to control.