10 years since the original American release

[ZeldaGirl]

Like SML said - what differentiates SSB from other fighting games is its unpredictability. That's why there are random items, stages that move, unexpected twists - you say one little trip can cost you the game? ANYTHING in SSBB can cost you the game - if you're playing on a stage that moves or evolves, it can cost you the game. Items can cost you the game. It's all a deliberate part of the game.

But random consequences shouldn't be involved in a game of skill.

Skill comes in various forms. Would you say that Michael Jordan is a skilled basketball player? Yes. Do random chance and consequences sometimes come into play in the event he partakes? Yes. Random chance is a part of MANY activities. Stop trying to pretend like it isn't.

[Rainbow Dash]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

Ever since SSBM Chunky.

tourney tard found

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by ZeldaGirl

Like SML said - what differentiates SSB from other fighting games is its unpredictability. That's why there are random items, stages that move, unexpected twists - you say one little trip can cost you the game? ANYTHING in SSBB can cost you the game - if you're playing on a stage that moves or evolves, it can cost you the game. Items can cost you the game. It's all a deliberate part of the game.



Skill comes in various forms. Would you say that Michael Jordan is a skilled basketball player? Yes. Do random chance and consequences sometimes come into play in the event he partakes? Yes. Random chance is a part of MANY activities. Stop trying to pretend like it isn't.

Just how random does the game have to be before it is just Mario Party: Fighting Edition?

Is Randy Couture a skilled fighter? Yes. But random chance has nothing to do with anything in the octagon. If he wins it is all due to skill, every bit of the fight. As for basketball, I don't know, I'm not so familiar with its mechanics, but I doubt anything in the sport involves luck. The only sports that involve luck that come to mind are ones dealing with coin-flipping as in football, or maybe environmental changes like wind speed in golf or something.

^ I've never had the privilege to play in a tourny, but I go by the same rules I'm sure. Love it.

[DJ Blue J]

I actually prefer no items, but I really don't mind them at all. I don't really call myself a tourney tard.

And you can't really deny that there's skill involved in SSB, guys. I mean, there's a certain level of skill in any video game ever.

[ZeldaGirl]

^There's also a certain amount of random chance in any video game. That's my point.

As for basketball, I don't know, I'm not so familiar with its mechanics, but I doubt anything in the sport involves luck.

...

[Swordmaster Link]

Of course there's skill in the SSB games, but the games aren't about skill, like other, more technical fighting games are. Anyone who has played several different kinds of fighting games will no doubt tell you there is a spectrum of skill. What I'm saying is, SSB benefits from the fact that it's more about the twists and turns that set it apart.

[Valigarmander]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

Is Randy Couture a skilled fighter? Yes. But random chance has nothing to do with anything in the octagon. If he wins it is all due to skill, every bit of the fight. As for basketball, I don't know, I'm not so familiar with its mechanics, but I doubt anything in the sport involves luck. The only sports that involve luck that come to mind are ones dealing with coin-flipping as in football, or maybe environmental changes like wind speed in golf or something.

...Do you know what luck is?

[CaptHayfever]

^^Coping is a skill, just a different one than other fighters are based on.

IRHP, if your arms can reach behind you, you can grab something that's behind you. Besides now I have to point out that some characters' freefall actually inverts or spins them, so it would even be more plausible for them to grab the edge "behind" them. (Luigi, Lucas, Sonic, & Samus immediately spring to mind.)

It's also important to remember the difference between luck & chaos. Luck is unpredictability due to random chance. Chaos is unpredictability due to unknown, but non-random influences (for example, other peoples' thoughts). Three- & four-player matches are rife with chaos. And that is why I love them so.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[DJ Blue J]

Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it, SML. But I still wouldn't knock the skill that really is involved in it.

[Robotazy]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

ZG, Tripping is a random consequence for no reason. One fall could cost you the game, allowing a turn-around. Skill should be based on ability. Obviously your argument revolves around your opinion that dealing with Tripping makes the game more challenging, which is fine, it being your opinion and all. I can't tell you the you are wrong; infact, you are right in a sense. But random consequences shouldn't be involved in a game of skill. I would never play Chess if all of a sudden, a Referee stole one of my Pawns for no reason.

Again, I've never lost because of tripping.

Actually, I think I tripped over someone's attack once >_> Can't say if it's true.

Ever since SSBM, Chunky.

Ever since Tourneytards ruined the game for everyone, IRHP.

Metal Man, your list is pretty accurate and I agree with almost all of it. Shiek was ruined by being dumbed down. And it certainly has a kind of soulless feel.

...not really. At least not to me...

Tazy, I feel the difference in gameplay speed. Characters fall so much slower, and a lot of downward attacks are now on a fixed trajectory, eliminating targeting. Shiek's downward kick is absolutely ruined.

No it's not, I always hit with Shiek. All the time. If Anything Brawl's Shiek is much better than Melee's Shiek could ever hope to be.

Besides, It's not like, you know, these attack force you to the ground or anything. Totally.

Haha, ZG, prep your argument for Tripping all you want, because even you would need to admit it needs to be OPTIONAL. >=P

Actually, they need tripping to happen more often. And it needs to be a stat. "Trip Resistance" they'd call it. How much or how less likely you are to trip would depend on the bar. "Shiek sure is fast, but boy can she trip up alot"

I despise the tripping and backward-grabbing all characters have. I mean, come on, if you aren't facing the ledge you shouldn't get back up!

You can grab a ledge from behind you. Therefore it is realistic and makes more sense not doing that.

^ Taking away whatever options you decide on is fine, which is why they're optional. You weren't taking anything away, you were playing by preference.

If you want to sound like a complete ass to someone who admitted that it was childish, then yeah.

Know what I notice? Double-standards. Everyone hates people who turn everything off and play Final Destination one-on-one. But what about people who keep everything on AND turn them up to appear all the time, never playing less than a four player free-for-all, at the most convoluted levels available? That's the exact opposite in extremes but it's fine because, for some reason it is deemed fun, right?

Sure, because they don't throw fits, and demand you play a certain character, stage, or without items.

Brawl is still better than Melee.

[Metal Man]

Personally I want an option to make the other guy lose while the stage explodes violently, because conditions which make me win are all that matters. </Average Argument you might See>

See, the misguided thing about anti-Trip is that only lousy players are thrown by it. Me? With ROB, tripping is an asset. His down-A causes people to trip. When he trips, he often does so out of the range of an attack, and if I react quickly enough, it throws off the opponent.

My issue is that its KSS-cribbed story mode and robotic match mode removed the sort of crazy fun. Yes, yes, OMG TWO WEIRD CHARACTERS FROM DIFF SERIES CAN FIGHT, we're over that now.

What we all crave is actual depth in this pool, like something to keep the metagame from becoming Meta Knight's exclusive world and a functional online/online-analogue. I can unlock everything but if no one will play me due to my ROB destroying them endlessly and playing becomes a chore because I'm too good but not good enough, then why play? MMX4 or even MMX5 will welcome my constant struggle to improve with secret items and tricky bosses. SSB:B just gets me a lot of people who can't win at online and no way to properly duel them in person, followed by the possibility that a guy who can spam Meta Knight's one move can basically become invincible and destroy me no matter what offline.

[CaptHayfever]

^I also like that tripping allows me to use get-up attacks, which grant a couple frames of invincibility, without having to get hit first.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Originally Posted by CaptHayfever

^^Coping is a skill, just a different one than other fighters are based on.

IRHP, if your arms can reach behind you, you can grab something that's behind you. Besides now I have to point out that some characters' freefall actually inverts or spins them, so it would even be more plausible for them to grab the edge "behind" them. (Luigi, Lucas, Sonic, & Samus immediately spring to mind.)

It's also important to remember the difference between luck & chaos. Luck is unpredictability due to random chance. Chaos is unpredictability due to unknown, but non-random influences (for example, other peoples' thoughts). Three- & four-player matches are rife with chaos. And that is why I love them so.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

If my arms can reach behind my body I can grab and teleport backward, grabbing onto an edge...? Maybe if the game had people grab from behind and the grip would give out easier or something I could accept such an inclusion in the game.

A question: How do "tourney tards" ruin anything for anyone? They can play however they want with people who think alike. Just like "party tards" can turn the items up to max appearance and scream "LAWL GETZ TEH SPECIAL BALLz!11!+".

Hey, all of those Tripping arguments are great guys, but the undeniable fact is it can cost you the game. Imagine tripping while Super Sonic is on your ass. Yeah, skill or not, that one second is all it takes to be destroyed. That's my argument because it actually happend. Humph.

Or it may have been me tripping next to a bomb, I can't remember, but it was awful and cost me the game. -_-

[Luigiman7]

^ Unless you're really really good at dodging, you will get hit by Super Sonic if he's just flying after you, back and forth.

And besides, it happened once. I never had a problem with tripping. I found it funny and it made the game a bit more realistic. I mean, how could they not stumble all over the place, what with all the crap flying around. And it's not like it happens frequently.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^ If you are worried about realism, find a new game. =|

[DJ Blue J]

^ If you are worried about a true fighter, find a new game. =|

[Panfan]

ML, every game you beat me I tripped. It's the game that did it. Melee ftw

[ZeldaGirl]

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

^ If you are worried about realism, find a new game. =|

****, man, YOU'RE the one who's arguing that it's 'not realistic' for people to grab the ledge behind them! You think that they shouldn't do it because that ability isn't realistic, yet you're against tripping for the same reason! My god, man.

[CaptHayfever]

I tripped next to a bomb once. Instead of panicking, I rolled away from it, because I remembered that rolling has existed since the first game. It did not cost me the game.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Valigarmander]

Damn it, IRHP.

Stop hijacking my threads.