Cookie-Cutter Video Games

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

They tried something new with Galaxy. I'll give you Zelda, but they're still fun.

And no new characters? Pikmin begs to differ.

Not really. The only thing new about Galaxy to M64 is they wrapped landscape around balls.

Pikmin is so beyond niche' that it doesn't count. Plus it isn't exactly characters that can carry a franchise. And again, that was SEVEN years ago. You can create a ton of new characters, but it doesn't really matter if nobody cares.

[Maynard James Keenan]

Fire Emblem is new to countries that aren't Japan.

[Chunky Kong12345]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Pikmin is so beyond niche' that it doesn't count. Plus it isn't exactly characters that can carry a franchise. And again, that was SEVEN years ago. You can create a ton of new characters, but it doesn't really matter if nobody cares.

Pikmin is hardly niche. Unless your definition of "not niche" involves a game being multi-platform.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

Pikmin is hardly niche. Unless your definition of "not niche" involves a game being multi-platform.

You're kidding, right? A franchise where two installments (I actually cover the industry and I didn't even know they have a Pikmin 2) sell 2.6 million worldwide COMBINED (shipped figures, not actual sell-through) isn't niche compared to everything else Nintendo makes? Seriously? Good and innovative doesn't equal mainstream/not niche. I'd say Ogre Battle 64 was the best game on the system, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that's actually heard of it, let alone played it considering it didn't even sell 500K worldwide.

If I ask a random person to name 5 Nintendo franchises, Pikmin won't come up. I'm not even sure it would come up if I asked for 10 NIntendo franchises. That is, unless some old person/uninformed parent mixes it with Pokemon (ie: Pikimon, Pokemin), which still doesn't count.

[Chunky Kong12345]

So do you just hate Nintendo or all of the industry in general, then?

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

So do you just hate Nintendo or all of the industry in general, then?

Hate's the wrong word. Even though Mario Galaxy is a basic upgrade to M64, I enjoyed it and think its worth the scores and praise. I'd put it in my top 5 from last year. Zelda:TP OTOH is noticably dated and I felt it was insanely overrated. Actually, most of Nintendo's Wii lineup is terrible IMO. The installments are either mediocre, steps backwards, or shoddy. You have a few exceptions, but I really haven't enjoyed much on the system outside of Galaxy (I haven't played Metroid, but that's perpetually on my "backlog" while it gathers dust on my shelf). But ya know, they're selling a bunch of crap games and making money off of "non-traditional gamer" types. If I had shares of Nintendo, I'd be happy as hell. But critically, its the equivalent of a movie studio saying it made a ton of money with a bunch of crap movies.

In terms of hardware design, my only quirk with it is the lack of space.

Most of the industry in general though. Dislike MS's strategy shift for the 360 (hardware design was awful and feels like it was done by marketing instead of R&D). At this point, I wonder why they charge for XBL since their main competition (Sony) gives it for free AND the only benefit for a Gold XBL subscription is that I get to play online. If they gave me more free crap (like pics/themes/etc), I could see the price being worth it. As of now, its rapidly becoming an annoyance even at $50/year. I think Sony's just borked the entire brand at this point with the PS3. THere's like 3 games on the entire system that I want to play, and BluRay to me isn't a selling point because its ultimately not the future (digital distribution is). I think both XBL: Arcade and the PSN downloads have been wasted at this point (though Geometry Wars 2 hit, so that'll distract me).

In terms of games, my problems stem from the overall lack of originality. If I play a JRPG right now, its basically the same formula as it was 10 years ago. Shooters are essentially the same. And there's too much of a "me too!" attitude with the projects that get approved and dated. Sick of sequels/franchises/remakes. PC games are worse, since nobody's ever bothered to make a simple-to-read-and-understand system specs. And MMOs are just a terrible idea since WoW is the exception ($$$) to the rule (epic fail). Also, I think there's a major problem with the industry shaking out to only have essentially four third party publishers (Ubi, Actiblizzard, EA, 2K), and it'll probably be only 3 by this time next year since 2K is likely on the block.

Though I think its amusing that me dismissing a niche, easily forgotten game when asking for game-carrying franchises as "hating."

[Chunky Kong12345]

Well, how exactly would you make a JRPG more original? It's not like you can deviate too much from the genre. (Although the Tales series has it's original things, such as the battle system)

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

Well, how exactly would you make a JRPG more original? It's not like you can deviate too much from the genre. (Although the Tales series has it's original things, such as the battle system)

Plot devices and better writing. Most JRPGs are essentiall "by the numbers" and you really see the same stupid characters and themes. Generic plot twists in a JRPG: Someone important dies, half the time its a love interest, the other half its a sacrifice. Not that either are a bad thing, but half the time it feels forced. I'm tired of kids under 20 in JRPGs being able to best a general in combat. Give me some reason as to why my 14 year old caster does more damage and has better knowledge of magic than the 60 year old wizard boss. Brooding main character? Overdone to the extreme. Saint/Virgin Mary like female character? Obnoxious and in every freakin game. Happy endings? Sick of them. Not that they're always a bad thing, but I'd like to see a game where I'm either not some white knight or ultimately fail. Epically. I'd also like to see unpredictable plot twists. Here's a hint: don't put freakin spoilers in the instruction book. If someone in my party stabs me in the back, I don't want to see it coming. I don't want to see deaths coming. I'd like some sort of surprise.

Not to mention they need to get rid of party limits. Like now. And this branches into other RPGs (like KotOR). If I have like 8 people in my group and we're essentially against the world, why can I only have like 3 of them in combat? That's stupid.

Hell, change the settings sometimes too. Xenogears/Xenosaga and Star Ocean are good because they shift out of the played out high fantasy setting for sci-fi. Hell, put something in the modern age. Do something different. Fantasy if done well is excellent (Currently enjoying Lost Odyssey, which sort of feels like its set in a not-retarded/serious Full Metal Alchemist type world), but generic fantasy is just painful to play through.

[Crazyswordsman]

The Answer: Go play Earthbound. -CSM

[LinkManDX]

Originally Posted by Crazyswordsman

The Answer: Go play Earthbound. -CSM

I have, and it's my favorite game because of the originality of it's setting/plotline/overall feel.

And yes Lurch, it was set in modern times.

The problem is that it came out in 1995. We're in 2008 now. Nothing seems to be original on the lines of that game.

[Lurch1982]

Earthbound's good the first playthrough (which I did when I bought it in like 1995). Not really going out of my way to play it again. It was good, but I'm not sure I'd put it in the top 5 SNES RPGs. I liked the sarcasm, but I think its one of those titles that has been glorified by a bunch of people who were either 3 or ignored it when it came out.

As per being an "answer" to anything outside of setting, it certainly isn't.

[Chunky Kong12345]

Well, it's not really a fantasy setting, either.

[Lurch1982]

Don't get me wrong, EB was certainly a good changeup to standard JRPGs at the time. But it's also 13 years old and hasn't been rereleased in the US. Kind of a relic in time at this point.

[PSYCHOKID909]

I'm always at a loss as to why LoZ and LttP don't seem to get thier due for shaping the franchies while OoT is considered to be the damn holy grail of all Zelda-dom.

That rant aside what would it take for the industy to take risks with new titles as opposed to just updating a laundery list of well admired franchies. Most likly it would take a very active protest from us the consumers to make this cahnge happen, that is something I don't see as while there are a number of vocal critics to how formulaic any number of franchies' have become we're the minority now. With the flood of new commers who are focused on easyer to produce casule games like the mini game collections and rythem games like Rock band we'll most likely becomen an even smaller minority.

- You stupid dog!

[STOP LOOKING AT ME]

Stop buying sequels.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Tazy_10

Stop buying sequels.

Not really an easy task.

NPD top 10 for 2007:

1) Halo 3 (360, Microsoft) - 4.82 million
2) Wii Play with Wii Remote (Wii, Nintendo) - 4.12 million
3) Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (360, Activision) - 3.04 million
4) Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (PS2, Activision) - 2.72 million
5) Super Mario Galaxy (Wii, Nintendo) - 2.52 million
6) Pokémon Diamond (DS, Nintendo) - 2.48 million
7) Madden NFL 08 (PS2, Electronic Arts) - 1.9 million
8) Guitar Hero II (PS2, Activision) - 1.89 million
9) Assassin's Creed (360, Ubisoft) - 1.87 million
10) Mario Party 8 (Wii, Nintendo) - 1.82 million

All but Assassin's Creed and Wii Play (seriously, does anyone play this or are they just buying it because its 10 bucks more than a standard wiimote) are sequels. And not just sequels, but at least the 3rd in the product line. There's really no reason as to why a big publisher should greenlight an original product when sequels sell like crazy.

[GURU ANT]

Originally Posted by PSYCHOKID909

I'm always at a loss as to why LoZ and LttP don't seem to get thier due for shaping the franchies while OoT is considered to be the damn holy grail of all Zelda-dom.

Because OoT brought in a LOT of new Zelda fans, and those that were around my age hardly remembered LttP or anything before it. Mainly because at the height of LttP we were extremely young, and the only way most of us new about it was due to older family members (At least that was my case). OoT as stated introduced so many new fans, and made the series transition to 3D, much like Super Mario 64 did for that franchise.

That rant aside what would it take for the industy to take risks with new titles as opposed to just updating a laundery list of well admired franchies. Most likly it would take a very active protest from us the consumers to make this cahnge happen, that is something I don't see as while there are a number of vocal critics to how formulaic any number of franchies' have become we're the minority now. With the flood of new commers who are focused on easyer to produce casule games like the mini game collections and rythem games like Rock band we'll most likely becomen an even smaller minority.

People create waht sells, that goes for games, music, movies, etc.

Gaming companies are a business, and businesses are focused on money, why would a business stop creating what sells? If Nintendo were to quit making Mario games, do you know how far they'd fall? If there never was a Halo 3, 5x more fans would be protesting to get Halo 3 made than there are fans trying to get a SMRPG2 made. People would wonder why there was no Mario Party 8 (believe it or not), to go and create something new when the demand for a sequel for certain games is so high is grounds for a potential business suicide.

So really, think about it, business = money, sure there's a high-risk, high-reward factor, but at the same time, why risk losing millions of money on something you're not sure about (fanbase wise) when you can make millions of money on sometihng you KNOW is going to sell.

Originally Posted by LinkManDX... FACE

5. Madden.

The creation of Madden itself is awesome, and if you just want to play a football simulation game, trust me, you're not really caring about its quirks.

I have learned though: buy Madden once every two years if you have a Nintendo system, because apparently sports fans don't exist in that department.

I've seen demos of 09 for Wii, looks awesome.

[REALITY = LIBERAL BIAS]

the only one that makes any sense on the OPs list is jrpgs. well, number 4 too, but thats not an actual genre or gameplay specification, and its mostly jrpgs that do that. its like listing jrpg twice.

EDIT: well, sports sims too, but we don't make up new rules every game in real life do we