Cookie-Cutter Video Games

[LinkManDX]

I'm not lying when I can summarize nearly all of recent games like this:

1. Unreal clones (Fast-paced FPS's with ailens n' ****)
2. Stealth Games a la MGS
3. JRPGs (Don't lie to me, they're all exactly the same)
4. You play a loner rogue who reluctantly helps society and ends up saving the world.
5. Terrible sports games.

I would say WWII shooters, but that phase seems to have passed in favor of futuristic Unreal clones.

Naturally all of these catagories had their manifesto which they based it off of, which are:

1. UT
2. MGS
3. FF
4. This one's a bit more vague, as it translates from Hollywood mainstays.
5. Madden.

This is why I don't play as many games as I used to: I've played them all before.

[ZeldaGirl]

I think that a good majority of products/items/things that can tell a story usually are formulaic and have consistencies that make them similar - but you're discounting things like plot, characterization and character development, etc. that make each stand out to be unique. If you want to include sports games, then there's gameplay; you cannot deny it's evolved and changed to make playing those games a completely new experience.

With your post, why not just include ALL video games - they all derive from one another in some way. You're completely taking things like plot and characterization and throwing them out the window. It's like saying "The Dark Knight" is the same as "Batman and Robin" - they both follow the SAME "cookie cutter formula" (there's a good guy, there's a villain, the good guy has to try and stop the villain), but anyone with half a brain will tell you that they are two VASTLY DIFFERENT movies.

How about games like Mario and Zelda? You strip them down, and it is a hero rescuing a princess from a brute. EVERY GAME. So, do you chose to not play those games? Why not include those on your list too, hm?

What about "fighting games"? Fighting games, you have characters that fight one another. Does that mean SF is the same as Soul Caliber? SSB?

All games, heck, all stories have a "formula" (making them "cookie cutter" as you say). But that doesn't mean that they are the SAME.

[I am nobody]

So if I make a bad cricket game I'm stealing the Madden formula?

[DarkZero]

I agree with the sports game statement, in a way. The "Name Here: Pro ____" games seem similar to me, but that's not the case with all games. You can't compare Dave Mirra 2 with Mat Hoffman. If you've ever played the games, you'd know my point.

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[Yeah I'd have to agree with what's already been said here. There is always going to be an "OG" of the genre if you will like a MGS, but that doesn't necessarily mean other series in the same genre follow the same formula or are executed in the same manner. Splinter Cell isn't the same as MGS. As for sports, maybe you don't like sports games or something, because Madden is a great franchise and would hardly sum up the rest of the genre. I'm not sure what you're on about, to be honest. ~SML]

[Kargath]

If you take away all the differences, things tend to be the same.

[DELICIOUS POISON]

Originality is lacking, but developers are afraid to try new things.

And I was joking in the other topic when I said "Unreal clone". They're all Quake clones, and Quake was a Doom clone, and Doom was a Wolfenstein clone, and Wolfenstein was a Catacombs clone. The only FPS I've seen that was a far enough departure to be considered different enough to step outside of the recycling was Tribes, and they've made that more and more like other FPS as it's gone along.

[DarkZero]

This is why I'm a Nintendo fan.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by DarkZero

This is why I'm a Nintendo fan.

Because they haven't departed from the same formula or characters for 20 years?

Originally Posted by GRENTLEMEN

Originality is lacking, but developers are afraid to try new things.

And I was joking in the other topic when I said "Unreal clone". They're all Quake clones, and Quake was a Doom clone, and Doom was a Wolfenstein clone, and Wolfenstein was a Catacombs clone. The only FPS I've seen that was a far enough departure to be considered different enough to step outside of the recycling was Tribes, and they've made that more and more like other FPS as it's gone along.

Part is the rising development costs, part is the publishing being done by a small handful of companies unwilling to take risks.

Its pretty hard to really make a non-clone FPS when you get down to the core. You're either in some future war or some past war shooting everything that moves. You have better execution in some, and better gameplay options in some (Deus Ex, Thief, etc), but it's pretty easy to just say "Just another HL/Quake/Unreal clone" or "Just another Tribes Clone" for multiplayer.

[Chunky Kong12345]

Because they manage to at least TRY to make things original?

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

Because they manage to at least TRY to make things original?

How? Mario Galaxy isn't too different from Mario 64, Zelda hasn't changed since TOoT. Mario Kart is just a small tweak on the same game from 15 years ago. Considering they haven' made a "new" game-carrying character in about a decade, I'm not seeing the originality.

[LinkManDX]

Originally Posted by GRENTLEMEN

Originality is lacking, but developers are afraid to try new things.

And I was joking in the other topic when I said "Unreal clone". They're all Quake clones, and Quake was a Doom clone, and Doom was a Wolfenstein clone, and Wolfenstein was a Catacombs clone. The only FPS I've seen that was a far enough departure to be considered different enough to step outside of the recycling was Tribes, and they've made that more and more like other FPS as it's gone along.

Notice how I said recent games. Although Unreal did borrow from Quake and down the line, recent games have been basing their stuff on UT mostly.

And yes, plot development is important, but I'm talking about the run-of-the-mill games.

Plot doesn't necessarily equate to a good game either, nor does lack of one kill it. For example, UT99 gave you this plot: You've been selected to fight in a tournament now go blow everybody up. It was still a good game.

I do realize that games are starting to become a storytelling genre, and nobody can discount games that do this well, but there are still a crapton of games that suck at this, and that's what I'm complaining about.

This is why I'm a Nintendo fan.

Adding gimmicks =/= originality.

[ZeldaGirl]

I understand your point, but I think some of the examples you used were stupid.

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[If you don't play as many games as you used to, how do you know that they're clones? ~SML]

[STOP LOOKING AT ME]

Meh. If a game is fun, and doesn't trip all over itself it's good regardless of being a clone.

As long as it's not too much of a clone.

[Bomby]

I have no problem with the overall lack of a change in the game play of Zelda. One doesn't criticize the Madden games for this problem, so why pick on Zelda?

[ZeldaGirl]

^That was the whole point of my post above - he picked Madden, and I said why not Zelda? I was trying to point out the inconsistency in his argument.

...unless that was aimed more at Lurch or something.

[Bomby]

I only read a few posts before posting. Ignorance on my part.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Bomby

I have no problem with the overall lack of a change in the game play of Zelda. One doesn't criticize the Madden games for this problem, so why pick on Zelda?

Apples and oranges. Hard to compare an annual sports title to a series that gets one or two installments every 6 years.

Though I would ask why does Zelda/Mario get a pass while other series that use the same gameplay format don't?

Although Madden is constantly criticized for making minimal mistakes or introducing new elements that can break the game. Gamers that don't touch sports games especially criticize them for being roster updates.

[LinkManDX]

Originally Posted by ZeldaGirl

[If you don't play as many games as you used to, how do you know that they're clones? ~SML]

Reviews, playing them at friends houses, etc.

When I said play I meant play them fully and buy them.

[DarkZero]

[Chunky Kong12345]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

How? Mario Galaxy isn't too different from Mario 64, Zelda hasn't changed since TOoT. Mario Kart is just a small tweak on the same game from 15 years ago. Considering they haven' made a "new" game-carrying character in about a decade, I'm not seeing the originality.

They tried something new with Galaxy. I'll give you Zelda, but they're still fun.

And no new characters? Pikmin begs to differ.