"The Exception that Proves the Rule"

Bomby · 07-22-2010, 11:35 AM

This is such an idiotic concept. The exception does not prove that there is a rule, it proves that the rule is not at all a rule but a general trend.

Robotazy · 07-22-2010, 12:44 PM

I just thought about the exception being the rule too much and now my brain hurts.

Rainbow Dash · 07-22-2010, 12:49 PM

the exception to the rule is the exception to the rule of rules with exceptions being trends

Metal Man · 07-22-2010, 03:03 PM

Generally I rule that the exception to the rule has to be some sort of grandfather claused in thing and otherwise it's not going to be allowed.

Even the grandfather clause, however, isn't allowed if it winds up being like the racist stuff that caused the creation of the term 'grandfather clause.'

On the other hand, things like being able to not wear helmets in Hockey games are weird.

Pixelated Penguin · 07-22-2010, 07:55 PM

I've heard this in so many debates. It's a great way to dispel evidence against your argument, and sounds good, but means absolutely nothing.

***Cosmonautical*** · 07-22-2010, 11:41 PM

Yeah, the only thing exceptions mean is that sometimes something is not true. If it's sometimes not true, it can be an exception to a concept, but that concept is then obviously ill-defined. The exception should be examined to find why it is an exception, with the definition of the concept redefined more accurately as a result. People tend to form flawed arguments because of this - with one side picking on the exception and the other being adamant that their concept does not need clearer definition. Worse yet, the exception isn't always a grand flaw that unravels the illusion of a rule - sometimes it's just a minor thing that goes unaccounted.

Hence why it can be so irritating to argue with people who pick on insignificant details, as they are obviously trying to destroy your credibility instead of taking on the argument itself.

Rainbow Dash · 07-22-2010, 11:44 PM

good luck trying to figure that out in math/the english language AI

***Cosmonautical*** · 07-22-2010, 11:50 PM

If you're saying you've got a problem with my language, I'm not surprised. It shows a lack of trying, IMO, if you're just giving up on understanding my use of it.

**Valigarmander** · 07-23-2010, 06:58 AM

stop showing off ai

***Cosmonautical*** · 07-23-2010, 08:02 AM

Rainbow Dash · 07-23-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCON PAUNCH

If you're saying you've got a problem with my language, I'm not surprised. It shows a lack of trying, IMO, if you're just giving up on understanding my use of it.

no i'm saying good luck quantifying new rules/concepts out of math and the english language for the parts of those fields that have rules with exceptions

LinkManDX · 07-23-2010, 01:32 PM

The phrase is (supposed to be) used to signify that a rule is discovered when something deviates from it and subsequently is noticed as a deviation.

It's still really stupid though.

***Cosmonautical*** · 07-23-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunky Kong12345

no i'm saying good luck quantifying new rules/concepts out of math and the english language for the parts of those fields that have rules with exceptions

Ah, I see what you're getting at.

heh · 07-24-2010, 08:14 AM

this can sometimes make "sense" but it never proves the "rule", it just maybe strenghens the trend.

the worst part is when i am arguing with someone, i give a counterexample, and they say this without actually knowing what it means and why it doesn't apply, and think its just something they can say to disprove all arguements.

Vapor · 07-24-2010, 10:18 AM

I... don't really understand what you're talking about. can you example me up?

***CaptHayfever*** · 07-24-2010, 01:29 PM

Math rules are never accepted until the exceptions have been addressed, usually either through adding a condition to the premise which excludes the exception, or changing the rule to an existential claim rather than a universal claim. Otherwise, the exception actually disproves the rule.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

07-22-2010, 11:35 AM	#1
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	"The Exception that Proves the Rule" This is such an idiotic concept. The exception does not prove that there is a rule, it proves that the rule is not at all a rule but a general trend.

07-23-2010, 08:02 AM	#10
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	wat

07-22-2010, 12:44 PM	#2
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	I just thought about the exception being the rule too much and now my brain hurts.

07-22-2010, 12:49 PM	#3
Rainbow Dash been dreamin', i've been waitin' Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: a bomb-ass cloud house bachelorette pad Gender: Posts: 24,402 Thanks: 173 Thanked 1,179 Times in 716 Posts	the exception to the rule is the exception to the rule of rules with exceptions being trends

07-22-2010, 03:03 PM	#4
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Generally I rule that the exception to the rule has to be some sort of grandfather claused in thing and otherwise it's not going to be allowed. Even the grandfather clause, however, isn't allowed if it winds up being like the racist stuff that caused the creation of the term 'grandfather clause.' On the other hand, things like being able to not wear helmets in Hockey games are weird.

07-22-2010, 07:55 PM	#5
Pixelated Penguin Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Philadelphia, PA Gender: Posts: 199 Thanks: 26 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I've heard this in so many debates. It's a great way to dispel evidence against your argument, and sounds good, but means absolutely nothing.

07-22-2010, 11:41 PM	#6
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Yeah, the only thing exceptions mean is that sometimes something is not true. If it's sometimes not true, it can be an exception to a concept, but that concept is then obviously ill-defined. The exception should be examined to find why it is an exception, with the definition of the concept redefined more accurately as a result. People tend to form flawed arguments because of this - with one side picking on the exception and the other being adamant that their concept does not need clearer definition. Worse yet, the exception isn't always a grand flaw that unravels the illusion of a rule - sometimes it's just a minor thing that goes unaccounted. Hence why it can be so irritating to argue with people who pick on insignificant details, as they are obviously trying to destroy your credibility instead of taking on the argument itself.

07-22-2010, 11:44 PM	#7
Rainbow Dash been dreamin', i've been waitin' Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: a bomb-ass cloud house bachelorette pad Gender: Posts: 24,402 Thanks: 173 Thanked 1,179 Times in 716 Posts	good luck trying to figure that out in math/the english language AI

07-22-2010, 11:50 PM	#8
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	If you're saying you've got a problem with my language, I'm not surprised. It shows a lack of trying, IMO, if you're just giving up on understanding my use of it.

07-23-2010, 06:58 AM	#9
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	stop showing off ai

07-23-2010, 01:32 PM	#12
LinkManDX Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Because political usernames ftw Gender: Posts: 3,582 Thanks: 297 Thanked 266 Times in 156 Posts	The phrase is (supposed to be) used to signify that a rule is discovered when something deviates from it and subsequently is noticed as a deviation. It's still really stupid though.

07-24-2010, 08:14 AM	#14
heh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: lo-ca-tion; Noun- 1. a place or situation occupied: That house is in a fine location Gender: Posts: 9,849 Thanks: 710 Thanked 955 Times in 628 Posts	this can sometimes make "sense" but it never proves the "rule", it just maybe strenghens the trend. the worst part is when i am arguing with someone, i give a counterexample, and they say this without actually knowing what it means and why it doesn't apply, and think its just something they can say to disprove all arguements.

07-24-2010, 10:18 AM	#15
Vapor Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: WHERE IT'S AT Gender: Posts: 5,211 Thanks: 314 Thanked 413 Times in 249 Posts	I... don't really understand what you're talking about. can you example me up?

07-24-2010, 01:29 PM	#16
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	Math rules are never accepted until the exceptions have been addressed, usually either through adding a condition to the premise which excludes the exception, or changing the rule to an existential claim rather than a universal claim. Otherwise, the exception actually disproves the rule. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"