Pirates who try to justify themselves.

Sonic 5 · 08-20-2010, 01:25 AM

I wouldn't care that you're stealing something if you would just admit that you are, in fact, stealing something.

***CaptHayfever*** · 08-20-2010, 02:08 AM

Pirates were among the world's first European-based societies to allow full rights to non-whites & were unique in being democratic seafarers.
...Or were you talking about internet people?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

***Cosmonautical*** · 08-20-2010, 02:24 AM

Internet piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.

Robotazy · 08-20-2010, 02:29 AM

I'M NOT STEALING.

I'M ONLY BORROWING (without giving it back, like a neighbor)

***Cosmonautical*** · 08-20-2010, 03:02 AM

Actually, you're only making a lossy copy of the original media at no cost to the original publisher.

Vgfian · 08-20-2010, 05:59 AM

I don't see too much wrong with burning a copy of a film you bought, just so long as you don't sell them. Otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with you, it's stealing.
My uncle (I'm still not incredibly comfortable calling him this even tho he's been married to my aunt for almost 10 years..) Has burned hundreds of films while renting them. Every time I look at their collection, I can't help but feel dirty.

He's also a wife beater, and gets too drunk alot, so MOVIE PIRATEZ IZ WIFE BEATARZ AND DRUNKZ.

Actually though, I've downloaded an anime series before, and considered burning it, but only because I plan on purchasing it. And I would NEVER make copies to sell online or off.

But yes, I might consider it equal to stealing. It depends though, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Do you mean just downloading the film/whatever, or downloading it, making copies, and selling them? (From what I know the latter is usually considered actual pirating, but their are probably mixed opinions on that.)

***Cosmonautical*** · 08-20-2010, 06:26 AM

Well, the problem is the paid distribution of copies of an article you do not own the rights to sell as a reproduction. Making a copy of a file isn't a crime, and this is only an issue of Capitalism protecting Capitalism. Because many of us are skilled, it is easy for us to reproduce a copy of an original product. If I see a pattern carved into a door, I could just as easily create my own version of that pattern on my door. The copyrights owner does not own the right to carving patterns, even that pattern, in a door. The copyrights owner instead owns the right to reproduce that pattern for resale.

Despite what courts may say, there is no way to prove that allowing consumers their own private recreations of audio patterns causes loss to rights holders as it instead is a reasonable competition to their monetary gain. If they're suffering just because audio is too easy to reproduce, it is counter-competitive to attempt to suppress a fringe industry and flourishing privatization, IMO.

**Valigarmander** · 08-20-2010, 07:01 AM

YOU'RE PISSING US OFF AI

***Booyakasha*** · 08-20-2010, 07:41 AM

I'm the kind of guy who's really open-handed with his swag. I don't draw a moral distinction between letting a friend borrow a book or movie and cutting someone a copy of a CD. Especially if the CD is really hard to find---I'm not going to keep the awesomeness of Calypso Christmas to myself, and if the copyright holders can't cope with that, well, maybe they should make the CD more readily available to the public.

Oh, and 'yarrrrr'.

(EDIT---I just realised, the CDs I seem to copy most for people are by Capn Dan and the Scuvy Crew (pirate hip-hop) and Alestorm (pirate metal). That's kind of funny if you think about it.)

Panfan · 08-20-2010, 09:40 AM

yar har deedly dee
being a pirate is alright with me
do what you want cuz a pirate is free
YOU ARE A PIRATE

Metal Man · 08-20-2010, 03:38 PM

Yarrrr.

I don't care for pirating anything, but when the copyright holders be makin' it too hard to get things, well, whataya gonna do? Live your entire life without seein' something because the people who made it went out of business?

***Ace Mercury*** · 08-20-2010, 06:50 PM

Company's PR firms call copyright infringement "stealing"; you can make the argument that infringement is dampening creativity, etc., but you don't need to conflate the two things. It's not stealing if the original guy still owns the thing you "stole". I believe we agree that stealing is wrong (taking other people's physical property without their permission), but I think that the discussion on copyright infringement is still up in the air.

Related:
https://twitter.com/Mark_S_J/status/17712835866

Quote:

"If copyright infringement is theft, photographing someone is kidnapping?"

Also, related:

Click to view video.

Sim Kid · 08-20-2010, 06:56 PM

I find some interesting reactions to video game developers complaining about losing sales to piracy:

If it was a well-received game critically that sold well:
Pirates: "You're complaining at US?!? Look how well your game sold? Why should you let THAT bother you?"

If it was a poorly-received game:
Pirates: YOU DON'T DESERVE OUR MONEY FOR THIS!!!

If it was a well-received game that didn't sell that well:
Pirates: *are mysteriously nowhere to be found*

As for the "Internet scanlation piracy" that manga-artists/publishing companies have complained of:

Well gee, you think it's hurting your profits? Well have you ever realized that maybe, some of these mangas whose profits you're "losing" are not available in our country? And even if they are, are probably ungodly rare in bookstores and probably expensive on eBay like Akira or Nausicaä? (Nausicaä is probably printed with paper made from albino redwood trees given how rare it is out here. :| ) If I could actually go out to the bookstore and buy a copy of an Akira book as easily as I could a Naruto collection, I'd certainly do it. Or if there were bigger collections of those longer mangas like Ranma 1/2 or One Piece, it makes it a lot easier to go on archive binge. And yeah, I also know sometimes the scanlations are often done by people who aren't native english speakers, or weren't really proof-read. (I saw a scanlation for Love Hina where the grammar was about as funny as the manga itself. XD There was a part where Keitaro apparently had a temperature of 39.7 degrees Fahrenheit.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man

I don't care for pirating anything, but when the copyright holders be makin' it too hard to get things, well, whataya gonna do? Live your entire life without seein' something because the people who made it went out of business?

Or, like I mentioned, unavailable because there were no official publications around there. Like I said, I'd be willing to pay for the Tales of Innocence Manga in a collection if it was actually published outside of Japan.

**LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT** · 08-20-2010, 09:57 PM

Pffft. If I couldn't pirate it, i wouldn't buy it anyway, thus, no loss to anyone.

Luigiman7 · 08-20-2010, 11:09 PM

i pirate stuff all the time

deal with it

Rainbow Dash · 08-20-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luigimango

deal with it

***Cosmonautical*** · 08-21-2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sim Kid

If it was a well-received game critically that sold well:
Pirates: "You're complaining at US?!? Look how well your game sold? Why should you let THAT bother you?"

Well, that argument's a case-by-case thing. PC games do have a smaller market. But when a big dev like Blizzard tries to justify cutting home-multiplayer from a sequel to the third best-selling PC game of all time, that's just wrong. Financially, speaking, the issue actually stems from 3rd party ladder competition. The fans did it better, and the fans did it free. It would make more sense not to try to build a business model around stopping that, and the build a business model instead around supporting that. Look how well it's worked for id Software over the years.

People still pay money for what would be a dead franchise, like the first Doom, to play on fan-provided servers. Just ask Loot - he could've easily grabbed a torrent, but he bought the Steam version instead. He didn't have to do that. Hell, he doesn't even get better support because of it.

But the point is that, if a game like StarCraft sells over 11 million copies, making it the best selling core-game on the PC of all time, and Blizzard's already abandoned it claiming they can't afford to compete with independent servers, what do you think will happen if the fans can't support StarCraft 2 in a decade? There aren't gonna still be sales of it.

Fighting fan support is killing PC games.

Jere · 08-21-2010, 02:52 AM

I would not call piracing stealing there is a a big difference after all.

Stealing - Taking something without paying
Piracy - Making a copy of something that you don't own.

I think i have a working policy when it comes to piracy and that's that if i really like the game/movie/album i download i buy them when i get the chance, though i have some exceptions:

1. the game/movie/album in my oppinion was crap
2. It's not officialy realeased in Europe.
3. they are older than 10 years

And i really think that there are more than me that thinks like this, therefore i don't think that: 1 illegally copied product = 1 unselled product, to some extent i can say that it's true, the crap i have avoided buying while doing above mentioned.

So in short I own all the music I have on my harddrive, all the games I play I have a legal copy of, That car is not downloaded from a questionable site and i don't even have a movie on my computer anymore.

Kil'jaeden · 08-21-2010, 03:09 AM

Okay, it's stealing, morally wrong, and I'm going to hell for it. But I'll enjoy doing it anyway.

Jere · 08-21-2010, 04:58 AM

Hey if it feels good ,why not doing it?

08-20-2010, 01:25 AM	#1
Sonic 5 Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bamamama Gender: Posts: 2,159 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	Pirates who try to justify themselves. I wouldn't care that you're stealing something if you would just admit that you are, in fact, stealing something.

08-20-2010, 06:26 AM	#7
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Well, the problem is the paid distribution of copies of an article you do not own the rights to sell as a reproduction. Making a copy of a file isn't a crime, and this is only an issue of Capitalism protecting Capitalism. Because many of us are skilled, it is easy for us to reproduce a copy of an original product. If I see a pattern carved into a door, I could just as easily create my own version of that pattern on my door. The copyrights owner does not own the right to carving patterns, even that pattern, in a door. The copyrights owner instead owns the right to reproduce that pattern for resale. Despite what courts may say, there is no way to prove that allowing consumers their own private recreations of audio patterns causes loss to rights holders as it instead is a reasonable competition to their monetary gain. If they're suffering just because audio is too easy to reproduce, it is counter-competitive to attempt to suppress a fringe industry and flourishing privatization, IMO. Last edited by Cosmonautical; 08-20-2010 at 06:36 AM.

08-20-2010, 07:41 AM	#9
*Booyakasha* SuperMod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 9,945 Thanks: 157 Thanked 1,481 Times in 763 Posts	I'm the kind of guy who's really open-handed with his swag. I don't draw a moral distinction between letting a friend borrow a book or movie and cutting someone a copy of a CD. Especially if the CD is really hard to find---I'm not going to keep the awesomeness of Calypso Christmas to myself, and if the copyright holders can't cope with that, well, maybe they should make the CD more readily available to the public. Oh, and 'yarrrrr'. (EDIT---I just realised, the CDs I seem to copy most for people are by Capn Dan and the Scuvy Crew (pirate hip-hop) and Alestorm (pirate metal). That's kind of funny if you think about it.) Last edited by Booyakasha; 08-20-2010 at 07:49 AM.

08-20-2010, 11:09 PM	#15
Luigiman7 ヽ(◔ ◡ ◔)ノ.･ﾟ*｡･+☆ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: ~)´◡｀(~ Gender: Posts: 17,605 Thanks: 1,134 Thanked 1,012 Times in 713 Posts Blog Entries: 8	i pirate stuff all the time deal with it __________________ ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ＷＯＮ’Ｔ　ＹＯＵ　ＢＥＣＯＭＥ　Ａ　ＭＡＧＩＣＡＬ　ＧＩＲＬ？

08-20-2010, 02:08 AM	#2
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	Pirates were among the world's first European-based societies to allow full rights to non-whites & were unique in being democratic seafarers. ...Or were you talking about internet people? And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

08-20-2010, 02:24 AM	#3
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Internet piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.

08-20-2010, 02:29 AM	#4
Robotazy PRESS ANY KEY TO PANIC! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: A Tiny Shed Gender: Posts: 16,483 Thanks: 529 Thanked 1,254 Times in 897 Posts Blog Entries: 46	I'M NOT STEALING. I'M ONLY BORROWING (without giving it back, like a neighbor)

08-20-2010, 03:02 AM	#5
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Actually, you're only making a lossy copy of the original media at no cost to the original publisher.

08-20-2010, 05:59 AM	#6
Vgfian Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Listening to Seeking 7 Seven and giving out free hugs. :) Gender: Posts: 6,862 Thanks: 2,433 Thanked 398 Times in 311 Posts	I don't see too much wrong with burning a copy of a film you bought, just so long as you don't sell them. Otherwise, yeah, I'd agree with you, it's stealing. My uncle (I'm still not incredibly comfortable calling him this even tho he's been married to my aunt for almost 10 years..) Has burned hundreds of films while renting them. Every time I look at their collection, I can't help but feel dirty. He's also a wife beater, and gets too drunk alot, so MOVIE PIRATEZ IZ WIFE BEATARZ AND DRUNKZ. Actually though, I've downloaded an anime series before, and considered burning it, but only because I plan on purchasing it. And I would NEVER make copies to sell online or off. But yes, I might consider it equal to stealing. It depends though, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Do you mean just downloading the film/whatever, or downloading it, making copies, and selling them? (From what I know the latter is usually considered actual pirating, but their are probably mixed opinions on that.)

08-20-2010, 07:01 AM	#8
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	YOU'RE PISSING US OFF AI

08-20-2010, 09:40 AM	#10
Panfan AND HE PRAYS Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grayskull Gender: Posts: 18,806 Thanks: 1,405 Thanked 2,251 Times in 1,339 Posts Blog Entries: 15	yar har deedly dee being a pirate is alright with me do what you want cuz a pirate is free YOU ARE A PIRATE

08-20-2010, 03:38 PM	#11
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Yarrrr. I don't care for pirating anything, but when the copyright holders be makin' it too hard to get things, well, whataya gonna do? Live your entire life without seein' something because the people who made it went out of business?

08-20-2010, 09:57 PM	#14
LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT Videos Mod Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In my pants Gender: Posts: 4,613 Thanks: 2,502 Thanked 767 Times in 422 Posts	Pffft. If I couldn't pirate it, i wouldn't buy it anyway, thus, no loss to anyone.

08-21-2010, 02:52 AM	#18
Jere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sutme Gender: Posts: 3,650 Thanks: 404 Thanked 331 Times in 256 Posts Blog Entries: 3	I would not call piracing stealing there is a a big difference after all. Stealing - Taking something without paying Piracy - Making a copy of something that you don't own. I think i have a working policy when it comes to piracy and that's that if i really like the game/movie/album i download i buy them when i get the chance, though i have some exceptions: 1. the game/movie/album in my oppinion was crap 2. It's not officialy realeased in Europe. 3. they are older than 10 years And i really think that there are more than me that thinks like this, therefore i don't think that: 1 illegally copied product = 1 unselled product, to some extent i can say that it's true, the crap i have avoided buying while doing above mentioned. So in short I own all the music I have on my harddrive, all the games I play I have a legal copy of, That car is not downloaded from a questionable site and i don't even have a movie on my computer anymore.

08-21-2010, 03:09 AM	#19
Kil'jaeden Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: in your mind Gender: Posts: 2,134 Thanks: 21 Thanked 146 Times in 99 Posts	Okay, it's stealing, morally wrong, and I'm going to hell for it. But I'll enjoy doing it anyway.

08-21-2010, 04:58 AM	#20
Jere Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sutme Gender: Posts: 3,650 Thanks: 404 Thanked 331 Times in 256 Posts Blog Entries: 3	Hey if it feels good ,why not doing it?