Organ transplants

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 09-13-2010, 07:07 AM

I don't support organ transplants. I would refuse to have one myself. I am not going to be a donor.

I have family who have received transplants and gone on to live many more years, but that doesn't give me a positive perspective on it.

So I'm venting, because I disapprove of the concept of "presumed consent", and I disapprove even more of people acting like it's selfish. I would not take a donated organ. It's not automatically some kind of double-standard that I refuse to donate. I don't adhere to the social fear of death. I don't agree that we should go to enormous lengths to perpetuate a person's life.

Dylan · 09-13-2010, 11:17 AM

Disagree on every point. Sorry dude, but it's too easy to say you're not being selfish until you face death yourself.

Rainbow Dash · 09-13-2010, 11:28 AM

Expand on "presumed consent". Organ donations from the dead only happen if they are officially an organ donor. Unless you're talking about the dead person giving consent after they are dead or something, in which case come on.

***CaptHayfever*** · 09-13-2010, 12:27 PM

Is "presumed consent" an Aussie thing? 'Cause that would be illegal stateside.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Metal Man · 09-13-2010, 01:01 PM

Stealin' organs? Yeah, that'd be bad. As for that extending life thing, my position is somewhere opposite--I believe that if technology allows it, immortality should be allowed, assuming something is done to ensure this does not totally crash the planet with too many people.

"Presumed consent" on the other hand, sounds pretty stupid to me, so I'd agree there's stuff wrong with that.

Speed · 09-13-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

Disagree on every point. Sorry dude, but it's too easy to say you're not being selfish until you face death yourself.

Vgfian · 09-13-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan

Disagree on every point. Sorry, dudette, but it's too easy to say you're not being selfish until you face death yourself.

As far as presumed consent is concerned, if they're alive and healthy/in a coma, then sure I don't like what I think it is; however, if they are just dead and their organs are preserved/donated to science then fine, at least just so long as they signed up to be a donor/have a spouse/parent/guardian/closest living relative sign for their organs to be donated after death, then whatever.
Also as long as the receiver of the organ is fine with it, but I'm guessing in most cases they wwould be.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 09-13-2010, 11:29 PM

Australia has a very low rate of organ donation, so they government has been discussing the possibility of legislation that gives "presumed consent"; if a person hasn't specifically stated they are NOT donating, the organs will be used after death. It's obscene. If they want to increase the rate of donors, they need to simplify the process to becoming one and make a campaign to have the paperwork available in many locations (doctor's office, for instance).

Fact is, Dyl, I'm going to die, regardless. I've lost people who would have lived longer if they had received a transplant. I've seen family who have lived longer because they did. I can still say with absolute conviction that I do not support it for myself. You can't tell me I'd change my mind later, just like you can't tell me that my aunt will change her mind about her Do Not Resuscitate order. Some people accept that death isn't the worst thing that can happen, and isn't something you necessarily avoid at all costs. I don't have the same common mindset. I support euthanasia. I don't have a disgusted aversion to suicide (where people vilify the person who killed themselves and, again, act like they are so selfish).

And, you know, man, there's seriously no way you could know what I have or haven't faced for myself. Maybe your perspective is way off.

Dylan · 09-14-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds

Fact is, Dyl, I'm going to die, regardless. I've lost people who would have lived longer if they had received a transplant. I've seen family who have lived longer because they did. I can still say with absolute conviction that I do not support it for myself. You can't tell me I'd change my mind later, just like you can't tell me that my aunt will change her mind about her Do Not Resuscitate order. Some people accept that death isn't the worst thing that can happen, and isn't something you necessarily avoid at all costs. I don't have the same common mindset. I support euthanasia. I don't have a disgusted aversion to suicide (where people vilify the person who killed themselves and, again, act like they are so selfish).

And, you know, man, there's seriously no way you could know what I have or haven't faced for myself. Maybe your perspective is way off.

Yeah, maybe it is, but I can't oppose something that has potential to improve someone's quality of life. Not all organ transplants are to make terminally ill people less terminally ill.

ZeldaGirl · 09-14-2010, 12:32 AM

I think that, based on the laws you are talking about SD, I kind of agree where you are coming from. However, I see no reason why two consenting people (one donor, one receiver) shouldn't be able to have the procedure.

Like you said, you aren't afraid of death...but some people are. Some people aren't afraid, but still enjoy life too much to let go without some fight. It it came down to receiving the operation and an organ from someone so I could be with my friends and family longer, I would do it - maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't care.

And I agree with your other points - I support euthanasia, and to some extent suicide. What people do with their own bodies should be their decision*.

*That comes with the caveat of being a psychology student - sometimes, people who are suicidal don't actually want to die, but don't have the resources to help themselves - in which case, there should be intervention and help offered. If it's a recurring pattern, though, and the person again and again refuses help...

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 09-14-2010, 12:43 AM

True enough, Dyl.

When you get people ranting about how "you could save somebody's life!", I'm not going to be more interested in doing something I already do not support. Everyone could do something to save someone else. Everyone could help improve another person's quality of life. Quit one of your hobbies, stop doing just one thing you enjoy, or stop eating any junkfood, and donate all that spare money to the homeless. There you have it, instant chance to improve another person's quality of life. Do we all do that? No. We are all inherently selfish. So either we're in it together, because we all have reasons for what we selfishly do (case in point, the argument of "if you needed a donor organ, you would accept" because people don't want to die and that is selfish), or everyone can stop complaining that not donating organs is extra-super-selfish, because my choices are just as legitimate as anyone else's.

Life just isn't ideal, you know? Where most people can accept minor differences, they have some serious hang-ups over things they think are some kind of human necessity. No one sees a big enough picture, and their first reaction is to try and guilt you into doing what they want. Hell, even trying to make someone feel bad about not donating is a form of selfishness: they've decided that it's so important, they will try their utmost to make you conform to their belief, first response to condemn your choice. Huh.

Oh, don't worry, ZG, if other people want to go ahead with it, that's absolutely fine by me. I don't have to be a proponent of something to let other people do it if they want. And everything else you said is super spot-on.

ZeldaGirl · 09-14-2010, 12:50 AM

Awesomesauce.

Dylan · 09-14-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds

True enough, Dyl.

When you get people ranting about how "you could save somebody's life!", I'm not going to be more interested in doing something I already do not support. Everyone could do something to save someone else. Everyone could help improve another person's quality of life. Quit one of your hobbies, stop doing just one thing you enjoy, or stop eating any junkfood, and donate all that spare money to the homeless. There you have it, instant chance to improve another person's quality of life. Do we all do that? No. We are all inherently selfish. So either we're in it together, because we all have reasons for what we selfishly do (case in point, the argument of "if you needed a donor organ, you would accept" because people don't want to die and that is selfish), or everyone can stop complaining that not donating organs is extra-super-selfish, because my choices are just as legitimate as anyone else's.

Life just isn't ideal, you know? Where most people can accept minor differences, they have some serious hang-ups over things they think are some kind of human necessity. No one sees a big enough picture, and their first reaction is to try and guilt you into doing what they want. Hell, even trying to make someone feel bad about not donating is a form of selfishness: they've decided that it's so important, they will try their utmost to make you conform to their belief, first response to condemn your choice. Huh.

Oh, don't worry, ZG, if other people want to go ahead with it, that's absolutely fine by me. I don't have to be a proponent of something to let other people do it if they want. And everything else you said is super spot-on.

Well sure, you could change someone's quality of life in some other ways, but just because you can do it one way doesn't mean you shouldn't do it any other way.

And people shouldn't be harping on you about you're opinion. If you don't agree with organ donation, whatever, that's your choice. They may not agree with it -- hell, I may not agree with it -- but it's not up to them, or me.

As for me, why should I care what's done with my organs after I die? It's not like I'll be using them.

Bomby · 09-14-2010, 01:15 AM

I'd gladly be an organ donor - if I had any organs that were in good enough shape to be donated*. -_-

*=Lack of donatable organs is massively exaggerated. My heart is perfect, according to a cardiologist I was sent to.

I must say, though, this is one of the first time I've ever heard this kind of stance on organ donation.

***Cosmonautical*** · 09-14-2010, 01:15 AM

I, on the other hand, promote the collection of unnecessary organs.

Anyone got a spare kidney?

Bomby · 09-14-2010, 01:18 AM

I'd give you my left kidney but I must warn you that it's a lazy pothead of a kidney.

Dylan · 09-14-2010, 01:26 AM

APPENDIX FOR SALE! APPENDIX FOR SALE!

heh · 09-14-2010, 01:35 AM

i don't really see a problem with organ donation, but in some cases the prolonging of life can be SLIGHTLY RIDICULOUS

(people in vegative states do not care if they die, they cannot tell they are alive, stop wasting their family's money)

Bomby · 09-14-2010, 01:40 AM

inb4organdonor

Also.

***CaptHayfever*** · 09-14-2010, 01:55 AM

^When I saw that was a YouTube link, I thought for sure it would go to this.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

09-13-2010, 07:07 AM	#1
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	Organ transplants I don't support organ transplants. I would refuse to have one myself. I am not going to be a donor. I have family who have received transplants and gone on to live many more years, but that doesn't give me a positive perspective on it. So I'm venting, because I disapprove of the concept of "presumed consent", and I disapprove even more of people acting like it's selfish. I would not take a donated organ. It's not automatically some kind of double-standard that I refuse to donate. I don't adhere to the social fear of death. I don't agree that we should go to enormous lengths to perpetuate a person's life.

09-13-2010, 11:29 PM	#8
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	Australia has a very low rate of organ donation, so they government has been discussing the possibility of legislation that gives "presumed consent"; if a person hasn't specifically stated they are NOT donating, the organs will be used after death. It's obscene. If they want to increase the rate of donors, they need to simplify the process to becoming one and make a campaign to have the paperwork available in many locations (doctor's office, for instance). Fact is, Dyl, I'm going to die, regardless. I've lost people who would have lived longer if they had received a transplant. I've seen family who have lived longer because they did. I can still say with absolute conviction that I do not support it for myself. You can't tell me I'd change my mind later, just like you can't tell me that my aunt will change her mind about her Do Not Resuscitate order. Some people accept that death isn't the worst thing that can happen, and isn't something you necessarily avoid at all costs. I don't have the same common mindset. I support euthanasia. I don't have a disgusted aversion to suicide (where people vilify the person who killed themselves and, again, act like they are so selfish). And, you know, man, there's seriously no way you could know what I have or haven't faced for myself. Maybe your perspective is way off. Last edited by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds; 09-13-2010 at 11:36 PM.

09-13-2010, 11:17 AM	#2
Dylan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Teenage Wasteland Gender: Posts: 7,790 Thanks: 1,632 Thanked 1,816 Times in 773 Posts	Disagree on every point. Sorry dude, but it's too easy to say you're not being selfish until you face death yourself.

09-13-2010, 11:28 AM	#3
Rainbow Dash been dreamin', i've been waitin' Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: a bomb-ass cloud house bachelorette pad Gender: Posts: 24,402 Thanks: 173 Thanked 1,179 Times in 716 Posts	Expand on "presumed consent". Organ donations from the dead only happen if they are officially an organ donor. Unless you're talking about the dead person giving consent after they are dead or something, in which case come on.

09-13-2010, 12:27 PM	#4
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	Is "presumed consent" an Aussie thing? 'Cause that would be illegal stateside. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

09-13-2010, 01:01 PM	#5
Metal Man Fairy-Slaying Maniac Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: 1592 Miles Away From Here Gender: Posts: 18,062 Thanks: 148 Thanked 683 Times in 482 Posts	Stealin' organs? Yeah, that'd be bad. As for that extending life thing, my position is somewhere opposite--I believe that if technology allows it, immortality should be allowed, assuming something is done to ensure this does not totally crash the planet with too many people. "Presumed consent" on the other hand, sounds pretty stupid to me, so I'd agree there's stuff wrong with that.

09-14-2010, 12:32 AM	#10
ZeldaGirl Awesome member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 15,896 Thanks: 1,130 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,046 Posts	I think that, based on the laws you are talking about SD, I kind of agree where you are coming from. However, I see no reason why two consenting people (one donor, one receiver) shouldn't be able to have the procedure. Like you said, you aren't afraid of death...but some people are. Some people aren't afraid, but still enjoy life too much to let go without some fight. It it came down to receiving the operation and an organ from someone so I could be with my friends and family longer, I would do it - maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't care. And I agree with your other points - I support euthanasia, and to some extent suicide. What people do with their own bodies should be their decision. That comes with the caveat of being a psychology student - sometimes, people who are suicidal don't actually want to die, but don't have the resources to help themselves - in which case, there should be intervention and help offered. If it's a recurring pattern, though, and the person again and again refuses help...

09-14-2010, 12:43 AM	#11
*Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds* Admin "mine.. not yours. NO. MINE." Epic Ladynerd Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Forteresse de Valois Gender: Posts: 28,504 Thanks: 1,658 Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,042 Posts	True enough, Dyl. When you get people ranting about how "you could save somebody's life!", I'm not going to be more interested in doing something I already do not support. Everyone could do something to save someone else. Everyone could help improve another person's quality of life. Quit one of your hobbies, stop doing just one thing you enjoy, or stop eating any junkfood, and donate all that spare money to the homeless. There you have it, instant chance to improve another person's quality of life. Do we all do that? No. We are all inherently selfish. So either we're in it together, because we all have reasons for what we selfishly do (case in point, the argument of "if you needed a donor organ, you would accept" because people don't want to die and that is selfish), or everyone can stop complaining that not donating organs is extra-super-selfish, because my choices are just as legitimate as anyone else's. Life just isn't ideal, you know? Where most people can accept minor differences, they have some serious hang-ups over things they think are some kind of human necessity. No one sees a big enough picture, and their first reaction is to try and guilt you into doing what they want. Hell, even trying to make someone feel bad about not donating is a form of selfishness: they've decided that it's so important, they will try their utmost to make you conform to their belief, first response to condemn your choice. Huh. Oh, don't worry, ZG, if other people want to go ahead with it, that's absolutely fine by me. I don't have to be a proponent of something to let other people do it if they want. And everything else you said is super spot-on.

09-14-2010, 12:50 AM	#12
ZeldaGirl Awesome member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 15,896 Thanks: 1,130 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,046 Posts	Awesomesauce.

09-14-2010, 01:15 AM	#14
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	I'd gladly be an organ donor - if I had any organs that were in good enough shape to be donated. -_- =Lack of donatable organs is massively exaggerated. My heart is perfect, according to a cardiologist I was sent to. I must say, though, this is one of the first time I've ever heard this kind of stance on organ donation.

09-14-2010, 01:15 AM	#15
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,102 Thanks: 2,157 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	I, on the other hand, promote the collection of unnecessary organs. Anyone got a spare kidney?

09-14-2010, 01:18 AM	#16
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	I'd give you my left kidney but I must warn you that it's a lazy pothead of a kidney.

09-14-2010, 01:26 AM	#17
Dylan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Teenage Wasteland Gender: Posts: 7,790 Thanks: 1,632 Thanked 1,816 Times in 773 Posts	APPENDIX FOR SALE! APPENDIX FOR SALE!

09-14-2010, 01:35 AM	#18
heh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: lo-ca-tion; Noun- 1. a place or situation occupied: That house is in a fine location Gender: Posts: 9,849 Thanks: 710 Thanked 955 Times in 628 Posts	i don't really see a problem with organ donation, but in some cases the prolonging of life can be SLIGHTLY RIDICULOUS (people in vegative states do not care if they die, they cannot tell they are alive, stop wasting their family's money)

09-14-2010, 01:40 AM	#19
Bomby You just freaking blew Joe Biden's mind! Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: WHAT?house Gender: Posts: 19,491 Thanks: 513 Thanked 1,449 Times in 849 Posts Blog Entries: 5	inb4organdonor Also.

09-14-2010, 01:55 AM	#20
*CaptHayfever* Smash SuperMod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 27,661 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 2,486 Times in 1,513 Posts	^When I saw that was a YouTube link, I thought for sure it would go to this. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"