Microsoft and Sony fight over the Wii - Page 2 - VGF

Cold Fire the Ranger · 05-17-2006, 12:44 PM

So, let me try to say this in English, or whatever language you speak, hehehe: Sony and Microsoft don't really think that the Wii will be much of a good console to buy, so they say that it is second rate and that Nintendo will have to work harder to get people to buy it???

AAAK!!!! I'm too confused!!! Can someone please explain it to me CLEARLY what the deal is if I got this all wrong, or at least partially wrong?!

Serial Miller · 05-17-2006, 01:06 PM

Come up with all the excuses you can, sure. And the DS has a control pad, shoulder buttons, and 4 face buttons, Koga. The touch screen doesn't have to be some sort of analog or whatever. It's cool, though. You guys can go on not liking anything. I understand, I mean - I never liked the PS2 or Gamecube or Xbox too much. Now it's my turn to enjoy something.

Mario Mimic:
Sony and Microsoft don't consider the Wii (or Revolution or Armageddon or whatever you want to call it) to be a direct competitor. They're classing it outside of the traditional videogaming world, and saying everyone will want one of these intriguing new contraptions. It will have different games, and different controls. That's the idea. Of course not everyone that's a "hardcore gamer" will like it. The Wii market supposedly will be like a Venn diagram of the Sony/Microsoft market.

**Booyakasha** · 05-17-2006, 01:13 PM

^^Not quite. Look at it this way--Sony and Microsoft are the big fish in the pond these days, and they recognize that fact. If Sony wants to convince PS3 owners not to pick up an XBox360 as their second console, they can either go negative on the XBox360 or they can go positive on the Wii. You see? Hurt your big enemy by helping your small enemy. Microsoft apparently came to the same conclusion. Machiavellian.

Codiekitty · 05-17-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cravdraa

First, no offence, but you sound like you got most of your opinions form that site you linked the Legend of me to in the shout box the other day. Which would be fine, except not only is that site known to knock pretty much everything, but they're also known to be bitter, cynical, jackasses too.

95% of what I'm pulling from is my own experiences, both with the games and what I've seen discussed around message boards. Or did I just imagine everyone ranting and raving about how awesome Canvas Curse and Katamari Damacy were? I even distinctly remember Curt practically ordering Koga to go play KCC.

I just happened to agree with a lot of what that site said (although I did think a few things were farfetched, like the "all the good NES games have already been ported to the GBA" thing). And the only thing I took from that site was "gamers play for hours while non-gamers don't", but after I read that I thought it was true. I once played Super Mario RPG from a savepoint halfway through Jonathan Jones' ship to beating the game, without turning off the system. And I think I wrapped up the final three dungeons plus the Wind Fish egg of Link's Awakening in almost one sitting (I did turn it off after the fire dungeon, but it was ten minutes later when I turned it back on). And my brother also plays games for crazy long times in one sitting. The longest my mother plays Tetris is maybe 15 minutes.

Quote:

Second, I've played plenty of DS games that I loved and I also love Animal Crossing which was far from gimmicky. Quite the opposite, it did what it was supposed to do and it did it extremely well. You have very different tastes from me, almost opposite really, but don't insult a whole new genre just because you don't enjoy it. I've never really liked Lemmings, Blaster Master, or Castlevania but you don't see me running around saying they suck, or calling them gimmicks.

I'm not holding a grudge against you not liking Lemmings or Blaster Master (although I can't help but wonder why you included Castlevania since it's not exactly a series I hold dear to my cold dead heart), but here's how I differentiate "gimmickry" from "new gameplay style"; does it do anything intelligent with what it's introducing?

I'll use Bionic Commando for an example. Rather than jumping, you have to use a grappling hook to move from platform to platform. The arcade game sucks and blows very very hard. It has absolutely no structure, and all of its challenge coms from enemies who are much more nimble than you raining on you. Appearantly you were supposed to be impressed by "Ooh, what a creative way to get from platform to platform!". It was a gimmick.

The NES game did something with that grappling hook. Challenging platforming, intelligence with the enemy mechanics, and even a few puzzles (in the later levels, it's not always clear what you have to grapple to). It took that grappling and made a game out of it. And the GB Classic game took it even further with even more intense level designs and a worthy final boss.

I happen to feel Animal Crossing didn't do anything with what it was introducing, hence why I call it a gimmick instead of just plain crap. Despite moving into a town full of animals which you were supposed to interact with in all sorts of fun and exciting ways, all you do is run errands. Granted, A Wonderful Life has taught me I'm probably destined to never like this genre.

And then there's "hating a game because it's empty/halfassed" versus "hating a game because I don't like its style", but I'm really starting to lose interest in this post.

Quote:

Finally, you haven't tried the Wii controler. You haven't. You don't know how it handles. You don't know how sensitive it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacilityPro of Flying Omelette's

Sensitivity is a stupid issue.

The thing with sensitivity is is varies according to how far you are from the screen. If you were pretty close, a 15 degree movement might not be much. If you were across the room, it would appear much more sensitive.

Thus, the controls could vary depending on where you were located in the room. It would be like trying to play a mouse + keyboard FPS with the mouse sensitivity varying from day to day. Might not be a big issue if you play games in the same spot every time, but it IS an issue.

Quote:

You don't know how light it is (I'd imagine very. The thing is tiny.) you don't know how well it fits the shape of your hand. And neither do I.

I can compare it with what I have. I actually have one of those Mega Man X GCN controllers that was released with X Collection. It's smaller than a standard GCN controller (if a GCN-Wii controller comparison picture I saw was to scale, it's as long as a Wii controller), and consequently serves as a decoration because the thing's so small I can't hold it.

Quote:

Nintendo isn't trying to make a gimmick controller. They're trying to re-invent the controller as we know it. The idea behind this motion sensitivity is that it's going to work so well that people will actually prefer it to a regular controller.

And while reinventing the wheel, are they keeping in mind what the past has taught them? A past where bizzare controllers were never successful? Like ROB, the UForce, the Power Glove, and the Rock and Roller? And even light guns that were lucky to get half a dozen games that used them?

Quote:

So is it going to work? I have no idea. I'll admit it sounds farfetched. I haven't tested it out yet, either. But from what I've seen, I am intrigued. I think it's awefully close-minded to pass judgement on something before even giving it a chance.

I've given plenty of chances to "new and wacky and innovative" games. I gave touch-to-play games a chance, I gave a bongo game a chance, I gave a tilt game a chance, I've given two life simulators a chance, I gave a ball clumping game a chance. I hated them all. Why should I be open to this? If I kept getting bitten by a dog every time I tried to pet one, no matter the breed, I don't think I'd be very open to dogs.

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

The Famous Mr. Horsehead · 05-17-2006, 04:47 PM

I miss good debates like this.

Kirb-e · 05-17-2006, 06:04 PM

You know, I've realized something upon reading each and everybody's posts in an attempt at forming a rebutal. We as hardcore gamers, are terribly selfish.

We criticize Nintendo for making a controller that resembles a TV remote. We also criticize them for making future games that are "gimmicky" and/or will suck because of it. We praticially criticize them for any move that's different and within 10 seconds immeditately decide the fate of the company. I don't however, believe we reserve the right to criticize it's gameplay mechanics and such before we sit down and get a chance to play it The Wii and the DS, although similar are very different. Comparing apples to oranges is not a good way to gain an accurate assessment.

Ninty knows what they're doing. They reinvented the video game biz two decades ago and it seems like they're wanting to go for seconds. I also believe I heard someone a page ago mention something about alienating the hardcore audience to get to the non-gamer audience. This is simply not true. What Nintendo is trying to do is implement an attempt of both strategies. That is, trying to satisfy the hardcore audience while attempt to reach out to those who have never played.

Look at Super Mario Galaxy. Here's a game we can all expect to buy. But here's where Nintendo's little trojan horse is deployed. Say a parent buys his or her kid a Wii system and in short months, buys SMG. Lets say by chance that the parent walks in and sees his or her kid having a blast with the game and immediately is intrigued by the system's simplicty at controlling Mario. Say what you want about this example, but somewhere its going to happen. Like I said earlier, Ninty knows what their doing. They're reaching out for the non-gamers (Say, Wii Sports for an example) while satisfying the hardcore as well. (Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, a perfect example!)

Falco53 · 05-17-2006, 09:03 PM

^ Amen, brutha'.

I don't necessarily think Nintendo will be reaching the casual gamer, though. The casual gamer is going for the system with the "cool" image, at least in America. That's how it worked with N64 vs. Playstation (and really, how many memorable/bar-raising games did the PSX have?), and that's how it worked for PS2 vs. GCN vs. Xbox. This kinda' gamer is going to buy the game where you can, in the words of Jenna Jameson, "have sex with hookers."

On another unrelated note: PS3 = teh suxxorz

And the hard-core gamers I know are planning on buying the Wii.

And I am dead (i.e. in college), I just come back every now and then for kicks and giggles.

Cravdraa · 05-17-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodieKitty

I've given plenty of chances to "new and wacky and innovative" games. I gave touch-to-play games a chance, I gave a bongo game a chance, I gave a tilt game a chance, I've given two life simulators a chance, I gave a ball clumping game a chance. I hated them all. Why should I be open to this? If I kept getting bitten by a dog every time I tried to pet one, no matter the breed, I don't think I'd be very open to dogs.

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

But this isn't a dog at all. It's something different entirely. It's a cat. Why do you hate cats, CK? What's your problem?!

**Booyakasha** · 05-17-2006, 10:10 PM

^^Dude, are you for real? I mean, I know this is the Nintendo forum and all, but saying the PSX didn't have a lot of bar-raising/hair-raising/whatevernot titles seems rather...disingenuous, to say the least.

Koga · 05-18-2006, 03:00 AM

I tried to post yesterday, but I had some computer problems, so I will also be replying to some posts from a while ago.

AI, they're not excuses they're perfectly valid reasons for not wanting a DS or Wii. Controls are the thing that kept me from getting into PC gaming. I don't care that the system has other buttons as well: because of the touch screen/ motion sensitivity, developers think they have to incorporate it somehow. There are racing games on the DS where there's a steering wheel on the touch screen which you operate with the stylus, which I think is ridiculous. In certain games you don't control the character, but the environment (Yoshi Touch & Go, Kirby CC), something which doesn't appeal to me at all.

Games like Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 look like games I'd want to play with a normal controller (although the former doesn't look that great from the footage I've seen so far), but I wouldn't like to play them with a remote controller. It doesn't matter that I haven't played it before, holding a remote in front of you, perfectly level for most of the time < holding a controller in your lap.

Also no one answered my question yet: If you could choose before the controller was revealed, what kind of controller it would be who would've chosen a motion sensitive remote controller? I think many people here will buy a Wii despitethe controller not because of it.

Kirb-e, I'm not talking about the fate of the company, but I'm stating my won reasons for not buying a Wii, which I think are shared by many people. I really think it's wishful thinking to have a game machine that appeals to both fanatic gamers and people who never play. Like Codie already pointed out, hardcore gamers play for hours on end, and it doesn't look to be comfortable to play for that long.

The Super Mario Galaxy may happen, but I doubt it would happen very often. Super Mario Bros. for the NES was easy to understand and simple to control. In fact, my parents even tried it... for 15 minutes and they have never played a video game again.

I think because they try to appeal to both they fail to really appeal to either.

**NintendoNut** · 05-18-2006, 07:24 AM

I'm getting the Wii based on the fact that I've never been disappointed with any of their consoles in the past (you can tell I didn't own a Virtual Boy). I trust their track record. I will get the Wii not because of or despite the controller. I believe that the controller is not going to appeal to the casual gamer, but it will to fans like me because we all know that Nintendo aren't gonna muck this up.

Like Falco said, people are going for the more cool image, which is why they will buy the Xbox 360 or PS3 grill. They will see the Wiimote and think omg not kool.

I'm a very open guy, I like to try new things. I like CK have tried just about every game variety there is on all sorts of controllers etc but it doesn't bother me, I loved the games. It comes down to whether you're adaptable to change, Nintendo want to attract those people towards the Wii and frankly when it comes down to things like that, the weirder, the better.

BTW, welcome back Falco, good to see you again.

Koga · 05-18-2006, 08:48 AM

I think it's weird that Nintendo fans accept anything from Nintendo. Sure they may still make good games, but I think they could've been better. Who wouldn't rather have seen Super Mario Sunshine without Fludd? Who would't have rather seen Zelda for the GameCube with OoT-esque graphics ( of course we're getting one now). Who wouldn't rather have a traditional controller than a motion sensitive remote?

I think VGCats hit the nail on the head with this comic:

Kirb-e · 05-18-2006, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Kirb-e, I'm not talking about the fate of the company, but I'm stating my won reasons for not buying a Wii, which I think are shared by many people. I really think it's wishful thinking to have a game machine that appeals to both fanatic gamers and people who never play. Like Codie already pointed out, hardcore gamers play for hours on end, and it doesn't look to be comfortable to play for that long.

Ah, I understand. But when I mentioned the fate of the company, I was talking about the opinions of many Nintendo fans when the controller was first revealed. I'm sorry I didn't point that out because it made it seem like I was talking specifically to you.

However, it is a remote control after all. It seems pretty light to me, but then again I haven't had a chance to play with it.

Now, to answer your question (which I meant to do in the last post but completely forgot to do)

Quote:

Finally, here's a question to you all: if you could choose, would you rather have a traditional controller or the remote control for the Wii? (I know some games can be played with GCN controllers or the controller shell, but because of the remote most developers are going to use it for the sake of using it)

Well it absoulutely depends on how developers use this new controller. Like you said, if they make games for the sake of using the pointer, then that nullifies the existence of the Wii. But lets say that developers do make good use of the controller and games like Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 were released. I would use the Wii-mote in an instant, as long as there are good games that bring new ways to play that are exciting and not pointless (and by pointless, I mean tapping the screen to zoom in on a map on a DS game for example) Then sure! Did I answer your question or was that a little broad?

Codiekitty · 05-18-2006, 10:13 AM

^ Dude, he's asking you to pretend the motion sensor controller doesn't exist, and if you would actually want one.

Perhaps I am being selfish with my games. It's because bringing non-gamers into the market by catering to them means more and more games made to cater to the standards of those who don't have any.

Look at cartoons. What happened to Freakazoid? SWAT Kats? Samurai Pizza Cats? They didn't die because they sucked. They all died because kids started expecting Ed, Edd, and Eddy and Rugrats out of cartoons. I can even point you in the direction of what happened to the Simpsons.

And music. No longer do we live in a time of people trying to make music, like Queen (and I'll even add David Bowie. Though I'm not a fan of his, I don't hate him. I do respect him, and it's obvious he's trying). Now we live in a time where every kid on campus listens to that rap song where the most dominant noise is not the generic singing, but the high pitched "EEEEE-EEEE-EEEEE-EEEEEE EEEEIIIIIII EEEEEEEEEEE" that repeated over and over for the entire "song" (does anyone else know what I'm talking about? I'd be shocked if nobody else did, because I swear everybody in high school was playing it all the time). And then there was my roomate from last semester who played music where the all bass and no brains background music sounded the same in every song and the lyrics include a woman singing about all the men she's knocked boots with (I really, really wish I was joking about this), songs where every line ended with some guy yelling "Dammit man!" or "Niggah!", or doing dope. Why does this garbage even exist?

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO WATCH THESE CARTOONS AND LISTEN TO THIS MUSIC HAVE NO STANDARDS. THEY'VE GROWN UP THINKING THESE ARE WHAT CARTOONS AND MUSIC ARE. AND THE CREATORS CONTINUE TO MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE EASY TO MAKE AND THEY SELL.

And guess where video games are going to end up because they're being sold out to the lowest common denominator.

By the way, people went to the PSX because that's where the third parties went after they got tired of Nintendo's abuse, not because it was "cool".

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

**Booyakasha** · 05-18-2006, 10:41 AM

^You know, I sat at my computer for a good half-hour last night trying to come up with an articulate response to the damned 'selfish' thing. I'm glad I gave up--I couldn't have put it half as well with a gun to my head. Spot on, CK.

Koga · 05-18-2006, 11:26 AM

Codie's right. The point of my question was to imagine the controller wasn't revealed yet. Would you still want one then?

Kirb-e · 05-18-2006, 11:56 AM

^ Ah alright, I understand. Completley misread that statement. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

If the motion sensor didn't exsist, then what would be the point of Nintendo radically changing the design of the system and the controller in the first place? Nevermind me buying the system or not--I'm a hardcore gamer and the answer is fairly obvious. I understand where you're getting at but the question seems quite irrelevant. If Nintedo opted to keep a traditional controller and tried to fight power with power,chances our they'd have a repeat of this generation only this time there might not be a Nintendo.

Does that help or did I still misunderstand?

Codiekitty · 05-18-2006, 12:03 PM

Ugh, try this:

While playing Super Mario Sunshine on launch day, did you ever stop to think "You know, I think it'd be pretty damn swell if this game were controlled by shaking a stick around."

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

**Deku Trii** · 05-18-2006, 12:09 PM

Meh, I still thoroughly enjoy a lot of what Nintendo's been putting out lately. In Advanced Wars DS and Animal Crossing, the touch screen was plain convenient. The dual screen is well used in a number of games too. I don't see how a 5th chapter of Pheonix Wright, sub par or not, can take away from the first 4 chapters.
The Wii remote has me skeptical, but the people who've used it seem to like it so I'll try it before I make any judgements like I did with the DS. SSBB alone is nearly enough incentive for me to pick up a Wii.
But oh well. I guess that, despite having been a gamer for about 16 years now, the fact that our opinions differ means that I don't know what games are.

Codiekitty · 05-18-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

I don't see how a 5th chapter of Pheonix Wright, sub par or not, can take away from the first 4 chapters.

Oh believe me, it did. It caused the game to go out on an exhaustive note instead of a high one.

Despite what I originally thought (and what I have little reason to question most people also thought), they're not four random cases that have nothing to do with each other; the cases all tie into each other. I'll insert what the chapters of Phoenix Wright are into spoiler tags for those who haven't played it and would rather find out for themselves, but I'm posting for those who just HAVE to know what I mean by "they tie into each other". Highlight to read.

Spoiler Below

Episode 1 is basically to teach you how to play, but it also introduces you to some of the characters and sets up Episode 2. Episode 2 introduces you to the DL-6 incident and the history of the Fei family. Episode 3 teaches you that Edgeworth is not a bad guy, and his true emotions are coming out after what happened in Episode 2. Episode 4 goes into Edgeworth's complex character, his past, why he was such an ass in Episode 2 and his prosecuting history, and his connection to the DL-6 incident.

Though being a lot of text, it was an exciting game. Presenting the correct evidence and saying the correct responses causes the opponents to jerk with a sword stabbing noise like damage, and your opponents have a way of exploding when you defeat them (guy in first chapter froths at the mouth and collapses). And then there's von Karma, the game's final boss. Taking him down was one of the greatest things I've ever felt. At the end of it all, I almost cried out of sympathy and joy. The humor was also an excellent perk (there's a guy who talks 1337,a Zero Wing reference, and there's a moment where you have to cross-examine a parrot).

Then I had to slog through this SL-9 stuff, some nonsense about forged evidence from an earlier case of Edgeworth's which comes out of absolutely nowhere, and a slew of boring, obnoxious characters (the only person I liked was the cowboy, and even he was irritating sometimes. The lunch lady irritated me to no end, I ended up not giving a damn about the defendent, I wanted to slap Maya's replacement, that girl who wouldn't stop saying "scientific", I hated that Chief of Police from the moment he started talking, and who the hell had that police kid consantly yell into his megaphone causing a "EEEEEEEEIIIII" noise to come from the DS?). Best of all, Gumshoe acts like Episode 4 never happened.

After Episode 4 I could hardly contain my excitement. After Episode 5 I was exhausted.

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

05-17-2006, 01:06 PM	#22
Serial Miller Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,679 Thanks: 416 Thanked 1,048 Times in 585 Posts Points: 14,354.59 Bank: 1,556,398.07 Total Points: 1,570,752.65 Donate	Come up with all the excuses you can, sure. And the DS has a control pad, shoulder buttons, and 4 face buttons, Koga. The touch screen doesn't have to be some sort of analog or whatever. It's cool, though. You guys can go on not liking anything. I understand, I mean - I never liked the PS2 or Gamecube or Xbox too much. Now it's my turn to enjoy something. Mario Mimic: Sony and Microsoft don't consider the Wii (or Revolution or Armageddon or whatever you want to call it) to be a direct competitor. They're classing it outside of the traditional videogaming world, and saying everyone will want one of these intriguing new contraptions. It will have different games, and different controls. That's the idea. Of course not everyone that's a "hardcore gamer" will like it. The Wii market supposedly will be like a Venn diagram of the Sony/Microsoft market. Last edited by Serial Miller; 05-17-2006 at 01:15 PM.

05-17-2006, 01:13 PM	#23
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 6,812 Thanks: 75 Thanked 338 Times in 220 Posts Points: 9,367.64 Bank: 20,637.07 Total Points: 30,004.71 Donate	^^Not quite. Look at it this way--Sony and Microsoft are the big fish in the pond these days, and they recognize that fact. If Sony wants to convince PS3 owners not to pick up an XBox360 as their second console, they can either go negative on the XBox360 or they can go positive on the Wii. You see? Hurt your big enemy by helping your small enemy. Microsoft apparently came to the same conclusion. Machiavellian. __________________ Boo--the only dude bad enough to rescue the president

05-17-2006, 10:10 PM	#29
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 6,812 Thanks: 75 Thanked 338 Times in 220 Posts Points: 9,367.64 Bank: 20,637.07 Total Points: 30,004.71 Donate	^^Dude, are you for real? I mean, I know this is the Nintendo forum and all, but saying the PSX didn't have a lot of bar-raising/hair-raising/whatevernot titles seems rather...disingenuous, to say the least. __________________ Boo--the only dude bad enough to rescue the president

05-18-2006, 03:00 AM	#30
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,094 Thanks: 105 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 103,482.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,234.82 Donate	I tried to post yesterday, but I had some computer problems, so I will also be replying to some posts from a while ago. AI, they're not excuses they're perfectly valid reasons for not wanting a DS or Wii. Controls are the thing that kept me from getting into PC gaming. I don't care that the system has other buttons as well: because of the touch screen/ motion sensitivity, developers think they have to incorporate it somehow. There are racing games on the DS where there's a steering wheel on the touch screen which you operate with the stylus, which I think is ridiculous. In certain games you don't control the character, but the environment (Yoshi Touch & Go, Kirby CC), something which doesn't appeal to me at all. Games like Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3 look like games I'd want to play with a normal controller (although the former doesn't look that great from the footage I've seen so far), but I wouldn't like to play them with a remote controller. It doesn't matter that I haven't played it before, holding a remote in front of you, perfectly level for most of the time < holding a controller in your lap. Also no one answered my question yet: If you could choose before the controller was revealed, what kind of controller it would be who would've chosen a motion sensitive remote controller? I think many people here will buy a Wii despitethe controller not because of it. Kirb-e, I'm not talking about the fate of the company, but I'm stating my won reasons for not buying a Wii, which I think are shared by many people. I really think it's wishful thinking to have a game machine that appeals to both fanatic gamers and people who never play. Like Codie already pointed out, hardcore gamers play for hours on end, and it doesn't look to be comfortable to play for that long. The Super Mario Galaxy may happen, but I doubt it would happen very often. Super Mario Bros. for the NES was easy to understand and simple to control. In fact, my parents even tried it... for 15 minutes and they have never played a video game again. I think because they try to appeal to both they fail to really appeal to either. Last edited by Koga; 05-18-2006 at 03:06 AM.

05-18-2006, 10:41 AM	#35
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 6,812 Thanks: 75 Thanked 338 Times in 220 Posts Points: 9,367.64 Bank: 20,637.07 Total Points: 30,004.71 Donate	^You know, I sat at my computer for a good half-hour last night trying to come up with an articulate response to the damned 'selfish' thing. I'm glad I gave up--I couldn't have put it half as well with a gun to my head. Spot on, CK. __________________ Boo--the only dude bad enough to rescue the president

05-17-2006, 12:44 PM	#21
Cold Fire the Ranger Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Littleroot Town Gender: Posts: 207 Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Points: 3,619.18 Bank: 5,715.05 Total Points: 9,334.23 Donate	So, let me try to say this in English, or whatever language you speak, hehehe: Sony and Microsoft don't really think that the Wii will be much of a good console to buy, so they say that it is second rate and that Nintendo will have to work harder to get people to buy it??? AAAK!!!! I'm too confused!!! Can someone please explain it to me CLEARLY what the deal is if I got this all wrong, or at least partially wrong?!

05-17-2006, 04:47 PM	#25
The Famous Mr. Horsehead Moderator of Awesome Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 23,088 Thanks: 439 Thanked 583 Times in 345 Posts Points: 78,474.06 Bank: 80,701.62 Total Points: 159,175.69 Donate	I miss good debates like this.

05-17-2006, 06:04 PM	#26
Kirb-e Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Points: 826.44 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,326.44 Donate	You know, I've realized something upon reading each and everybody's posts in an attempt at forming a rebutal. We as hardcore gamers, are terribly selfish. We criticize Nintendo for making a controller that resembles a TV remote. We also criticize them for making future games that are "gimmicky" and/or will suck because of it. We praticially criticize them for any move that's different and within 10 seconds immeditately decide the fate of the company. I don't however, believe we reserve the right to criticize it's gameplay mechanics and such before we sit down and get a chance to play it The Wii and the DS, although similar are very different. Comparing apples to oranges is not a good way to gain an accurate assessment. Ninty knows what they're doing. They reinvented the video game biz two decades ago and it seems like they're wanting to go for seconds. I also believe I heard someone a page ago mention something about alienating the hardcore audience to get to the non-gamer audience. This is simply not true. What Nintendo is trying to do is implement an attempt of both strategies. That is, trying to satisfy the hardcore audience while attempt to reach out to those who have never played. Look at Super Mario Galaxy. Here's a game we can all expect to buy. But here's where Nintendo's little trojan horse is deployed. Say a parent buys his or her kid a Wii system and in short months, buys SMG. Lets say by chance that the parent walks in and sees his or her kid having a blast with the game and immediately is intrigued by the system's simplicty at controlling Mario. Say what you want about this example, but somewhere its going to happen. Like I said earlier, Ninty knows what their doing. They're reaching out for the non-gamers (Say, Wii Sports for an example) while satisfying the hardcore as well. (Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, a perfect example!)

05-17-2006, 09:03 PM	#27
Falco53 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Happy World Land Posts: 2,744 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 5,887.47 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 6,387.47 Donate	^ Amen, brutha'. I don't necessarily think Nintendo will be reaching the casual gamer, though. The casual gamer is going for the system with the "cool" image, at least in America. That's how it worked with N64 vs. Playstation (and really, how many memorable/bar-raising games did the PSX have?), and that's how it worked for PS2 vs. GCN vs. Xbox. This kinda' gamer is going to buy the game where you can, in the words of Jenna Jameson, "have sex with hookers." On another unrelated note: PS3 = teh suxxorz And the hard-core gamers I know are planning on buying the Wii. And I am dead (i.e. in college), I just come back every now and then for kicks and giggles.

05-18-2006, 07:24 AM	#31
NintendoNut NinNut Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hold on, I know this..... Gender: Posts: 8,222 Thanks: 63 Thanked 32 Times in 26 Posts Points: 42,559.30 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 42,559.30 Donate	I'm getting the Wii based on the fact that I've never been disappointed with any of their consoles in the past (you can tell I didn't own a Virtual Boy). I trust their track record. I will get the Wii not because of or despite the controller. I believe that the controller is not going to appeal to the casual gamer, but it will to fans like me because we all know that Nintendo aren't gonna muck this up. Like Falco said, people are going for the more cool image, which is why they will buy the Xbox 360 or PS3 grill. They will see the Wiimote and think omg not kool. I'm a very open guy, I like to try new things. I like CK have tried just about every game variety there is on all sorts of controllers etc but it doesn't bother me, I loved the games. It comes down to whether you're adaptable to change, Nintendo want to attract those people towards the Wii and frankly when it comes down to things like that, the weirder, the better. BTW, welcome back Falco, good to see you again.

05-18-2006, 08:48 AM	#32
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,094 Thanks: 105 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 103,482.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,234.82 Donate	I think it's weird that Nintendo fans accept anything from Nintendo. Sure they may still make good games, but I think they could've been better. Who wouldn't rather have seen Super Mario Sunshine without Fludd? Who would't have rather seen Zelda for the GameCube with OoT-esque graphics ( of course we're getting one now). Who wouldn't rather have a traditional controller than a motion sensitive remote? I think VGCats hit the nail on the head with this comic:

05-18-2006, 10:13 AM	#34
Codiekitty Just Another Face in Red Jumpsuit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Lemmingland Gender: Posts: 19,143 Thanks: 121 Thanked 175 Times in 120 Posts Points: 41,847.72 Bank: 3,021,450.74 Total Points: 3,063,298.46 Donate	^ Dude, he's asking you to pretend the motion sensor controller doesn't exist, and if you would actually want one. Perhaps I am being selfish with my games. It's because bringing non-gamers into the market by catering to them means more and more games made to cater to the standards of those who don't have any. Look at cartoons. What happened to Freakazoid? SWAT Kats? Samurai Pizza Cats? They didn't die because they sucked. They all died because kids started expecting Ed, Edd, and Eddy and Rugrats out of cartoons. I can even point you in the direction of what happened to the Simpsons. And music. No longer do we live in a time of people trying to make music, like Queen (and I'll even add David Bowie. Though I'm not a fan of his, I don't hate him. I do respect him, and it's obvious he's trying). Now we live in a time where every kid on campus listens to that rap song where the most dominant noise is not the generic singing, but the high pitched "EEEEE-EEEE-EEEEE-EEEEEE EEEEIIIIIII EEEEEEEEEEE" that repeated over and over for the entire "song" (does anyone else know what I'm talking about? I'd be shocked if nobody else did, because I swear everybody in high school was playing it all the time). And then there was my roomate from last semester who played music where the all bass and no brains background music sounded the same in every song and the lyrics include a woman singing about all the men she's knocked boots with (I really, really wish I was joking about this), songs where every line ended with some guy yelling "Dammit man!" or "Niggah!", or doing dope. Why does this garbage even exist? BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO WATCH THESE CARTOONS AND LISTEN TO THIS MUSIC HAVE NO STANDARDS. THEY'VE GROWN UP THINKING THESE ARE WHAT CARTOONS AND MUSIC ARE. AND THE CREATORS CONTINUE TO MAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE EASY TO MAKE AND THEY SELL. And guess where video games are going to end up because they're being sold out to the lowest common denominator. By the way, people went to the PSX because that's where the third parties went after they got tired of Nintendo's abuse, not because it was "cool". Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

05-18-2006, 11:26 AM	#36
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,094 Thanks: 105 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 103,482.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,234.82 Donate	Codie's right. The point of my question was to imagine the controller wasn't revealed yet. Would you still want one then?

05-18-2006, 11:56 AM	#37
Kirb-e Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Points: 826.44 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,326.44 Donate	^ Ah alright, I understand. Completley misread that statement. Thanks for clearing it up for me. If the motion sensor didn't exsist, then what would be the point of Nintendo radically changing the design of the system and the controller in the first place? Nevermind me buying the system or not--I'm a hardcore gamer and the answer is fairly obvious. I understand where you're getting at but the question seems quite irrelevant. If Nintedo opted to keep a traditional controller and tried to fight power with power,chances our they'd have a repeat of this generation only this time there might not be a Nintendo. Does that help or did I still misunderstand?

05-18-2006, 12:03 PM	#38
Codiekitty Just Another Face in Red Jumpsuit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Lemmingland Gender: Posts: 19,143 Thanks: 121 Thanked 175 Times in 120 Posts Points: 41,847.72 Bank: 3,021,450.74 Total Points: 3,063,298.46 Donate	Ugh, try this: While playing Super Mario Sunshine on launch day, did you ever stop to think "You know, I think it'd be pretty damn swell if this game were controlled by shaking a stick around." Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

05-18-2006, 12:09 PM	#39
Deku Trii PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,258 Thanks: 97 Thanked 255 Times in 163 Posts Points: 1,454.85 Bank: 1,566,553.83 Total Points: 1,568,008.68 Donate	Meh, I still thoroughly enjoy a lot of what Nintendo's been putting out lately. In Advanced Wars DS and Animal Crossing, the touch screen was plain convenient. The dual screen is well used in a number of games too. I don't see how a 5th chapter of Pheonix Wright, sub par or not, can take away from the first 4 chapters. The Wii remote has me skeptical, but the people who've used it seem to like it so I'll try it before I make any judgements like I did with the DS. SSBB alone is nearly enough incentive for me to pick up a Wii. But oh well. I guess that, despite having been a gamer for about 16 years now, the fact that our opinions differ means that I don't know what games are.