Microsoft and Sony fight over the Wii - Page 4

Kirb-e · 05-19-2006, 03:25 PM

Well now you're mentioning it as if the system is deemed to be an utter failure. This company isn't a dumb one. It's been around for about 116 years or so and I don't think they're going to pull out of the home console buisness simply because its not powerful enough.

And apparently, going 3rd party isn't a great way to breath new life into games. Most of SEGA isn't even itself anymore they don't release great games liket they use to.

That's like having your spoiled cake and eating it.

**Dr. Horrible** · 05-19-2006, 03:56 PM

^^I think Nintendo does just that by keeping reasonable prices.

Codiekitty · 05-19-2006, 04:38 PM

^^ Okay, what exactly is the purpose of the Wii's controller? A few days ago it was "rake in people who probably don't want to and shouldn't be playing games anyway". A day or two ago it was "reinvent the wheel". Now it's "revive the market by inflating its problem" (or is Nintendo's goal to create The Great Video Game Crash Take 2 so they can repeat history?).

For starters, the video game market has always been full of trashy license games. Home Improvement, Shaq Fu, that N64 Rugrats board game I can't be bothered to look up the name of, [Side note: Here starts games I own for whatever reason] Bart vs. the Space Mutants/the World, Pictionary, Night Rider, some stupid Sports games I only own because they came with the NES lot I got off eBay, and Rambo I can name off the top of my head. And that's just a tiny, tiny fraction of what's out there. I've even got an entire CD Booklet full of Saturn licensed and sports junk that I own because I wanted the cases (although I wasn't particularly happy to find that most of the cases were broken). True, it may be worse today, but...

...this ties into that whole "The Wii's purpose is to get everyone and the cats and rice ladles to play video games" thing you were talking about earlier. Why are these games made? Not because they're good, but because they sell. Why do they sell? Because they're aimed at the Spongebob and Barbie loving little boys and girls and 50 cent adoring teenagers who don't know what a real game is. And just how is even more games made for people without standards supposed to help the market?

Games like Guitar Hero might be better off with those controllers, but look at what's done with the controllers after those games. Either you get rehash after rehash after rehash, or a $50 paperweight. The DK bongos got an awe inspiring three games that use them, one of which is basically a rehash of another. My bongos have been collecting dust since a couple weeks after the game came out.

There's a limit with what you can do with these wild and crazy controllers. And am I the only person who finds it hilarous how the "killer reason to buy a Wii" is a game that doesn't even use its selling point?

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

Kirb-e · 05-19-2006, 05:01 PM

^ 3 differnt goals in 3 days.

Well, out of all of those goals that you mentioned, CK, all of them are Nintendo's goal! So I'm glad you see the big picture here. (jk) But did I say that Nintendo will be successful in breathing new life into the video game biz ? I don't think so.

The NES did just that by the way. It changed the way that everybody had played home consoles. But that didn't stop the onflow of crappy games that follows every single video game system in existince. You make a system, you're gonna get crap no matter what you do. Some people don't always have the best ideas for a game. And yes, you can say that the Wii wasn't a good idea, but we'll just have to wait and see if anyone's claim holds grounds.

Quote:

There's a limit with what you can do with these wild and crazy controllers. And am I the only person who finds it hilarous how the "killer reason to buy a Wii" is a game that doesn't even use its selling point?

I don't think you're the only person that finds it hilarious. There just as many people out there that are against the whole controller issue just as there are people in support of it.

Apparently, Nintedo believes that there is a limit to what you can do with our standard controllers of today and thus the Wii-mote was born. Let me add that all of those unique controllers had a single primary purpose. To allow the type of gameplay in which the game permitted. Do you honestly expect to see a sequel to Gradius on the PS2 using the Guitar Controller? I think not. Wii's remote boosts a number of different possibilities. Nintendo's philosophy for the past-- um. Well, ever since they revealed the Wii-mote is that the possibilities are endless.

Upon looking at myself, I sound like a Nintendo Rep! lol

DELICIOUS POISON · 05-19-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koga

You haven't touched it either, AI, and you're praising it like it's the best thing to come out since the NES.

I never said anything fantastic about it. It's been said to be a better means of controlling. I said I like things that are better. Maybe you like things that are worse. I could see how something better would upset you.

***Ynot Shane*** · 05-19-2006, 08:42 PM

Wouldn't the best thing to come out since the NES be the PC?

Koga · 05-20-2006, 11:11 AM

Don't be ridiculous AI. There's no way of saying it will be better or worse, that's a matter of opinion. The only thing that's for certain is that it will be different. Some may like it, some may not. I don't.

Codiekitty · 05-20-2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

The NES did just that by the way. It changed the way that everybody had played home consoles. But that didn't stop the onflow of crappy games that follows every single video game system in existince. You make a system, you're gonna get crap no matter what you do. Some people don't always have the best ideas for a game. And yes, you can say that the Wii wasn't a good idea, but we'll just have to wait and see if anyone's claim holds grounds.

The difference between now and then are now video games are not completely broken. Anybody who's done their homework, whether through playing the games themselves or doing a little reading would know pre-NES games amounted to disposable entertainment. Most of them were single screeners played for the sole purpose of getting a high score. If not, they just plain sucked. Nintendo came along, took that idea, made an art form out it.

The problem with games nowadays is nobody realizes that and STILL think of games as disposable entertainment. Why else do people listen to Jack Thompson?

Quote:

Apparently, Nintedo believes that there is a limit to what you can do with our standard controllers of today and thus the Wii-mote was born.

Depends on what you mean by "limit with what we can do with our standard controllers". A limit with what the games can do, or how we control them? The standard controllers gave us games where we fend off aliens who plan to shred our world, slay vampires and either medieval beasts, travel through time, ride go-karts, battle the forces of Hell as a half man half demon, race across sinking ghost ships, battle hoodlums in the Old West, make scrap out of menacing robots, swing across pools of molten lava, I can go on for days.

As for "controlling them", sure there's a limit, but here's my question. What are the intentions of these games; to provide an action-packed challenge, or the novelty of "Woo, I can shake a stick to swing a sword"?

Quote:

Wii's remote boosts a number of different possibilities. Nintendo's philosophy for the past-- um. Well, ever since they revealed the Wii-mote is that the possibilities are endless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacilityPro of Flying Omelette's

Oh, come on, Crawl. The controller opens up a world of possibilities. Think of "Harvest Moon Wii." You realize the potential for that game ALONE??

-Butter Churn minigame. Hold the controller vertically and move it up and down.
-Cow milking minigame. Hold the controller vertically and move it up and down.
-Water your plants with the controller.
[CK's note: I'm sorry, I can't post the rest of this. You might be able to figure it out yourself, but if you must know, click here but don't say I didn't warn you]

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

Kirb-e · 05-20-2006, 07:03 PM

^ Well I guess you could say that this goes back to the "whatever system that you make crap will come no matter what" arguement. Of course there are developers that will probably end up developing games such as this and thats unavoidable.

And by limit of the controller, I meant a new way to play the games simply. Now it really depends on how the developers use the new controller, as I said earlier. Your Harvest Moon example is a perfect example. I wouldn't buy a Nintendo DS if all of the games innovative feature was tapping the screen to allow a switch of the map or something of this nature. I'm talking about using the Wii-mote in games like Excite Truck that would be virtually impossible on any other system (maybe PS3, but I'm not sure.)

And that's Nintendo's current belief. Overall the answer is quite simple. Anyone can judge the system's future. Does it make it right to do so? I don't think so. But hey! I say wait it a couple of years and see what happens. Anyone who believes that this system will deliver the same type of quality if not more than past consoles, will be more than satisfied if Nintendo goes back on its throne. If the system fails, then all the naysayers reserve the immediate right to say "I told you so."

**Booyakasha** · 05-20-2006, 07:37 PM

^Nintendo clearly doesn't want to go back on the throne. They said it themselves--this is a console 'for everyone', not for gamers. You don't win the hearts and minds of gamers by concentrating on the demographic that doesn't see the appeal of staying up 'til all hours mastering the intricacies of Mary's Dynamite Swing. (Wii's target audience wouldn't know what the hell I just said. Hell, most real gamers wouldn't, either. Sissies.)

I tried out 'The Warriors' on XBox last year. It didn't do a whole lot for me, but Rockstar did some pretty interesting things with the controls. For instance, when spray-painting your gang's tag, you had to trace along a line with the joystick; stealing a car's radio meant rotating the joystick rapidly to simulate unscrewing it from the dashboard; that kind of thing. My point? You don't have to come up with a retarded gimmick controller in order to deliver fresh, innovative gameplay experiences to the people.

DELICIOUS POISON · 05-21-2006, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koga

Don't be ridiculous AI. There's no way of saying it will be better or worse, that's a matter of opinion. The only thing that's for certain is that it will be different. Some may like it, some may not. I don't.

Or option C: You're just too dutch.

Koga · 05-21-2006, 11:10 AM

Thank you for a valuable contribution to the topic!

Codiekitty · 05-21-2006, 01:09 PM

What happened to my post?

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

DELICIOUS POISON · 05-21-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koga

Thank you for a valuable contribution to the topic!

Yeah, right, don't go acting like this is an important discussion.

**NintendoNut** · 05-22-2006, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koga

Thank you for a valuable contribution to the topic!

Far as I can see, it was a valid point.

Kirb-e · 05-22-2006, 08:57 AM

What the heck happened to mine as well?

Well anyway, you know what I'm saying. I think we've made out points very clear.

Koga · 05-22-2006, 05:13 PM

I'm not acting like this is an important discussion. I just made a good point, and you responded with a childish, unfunny, misspelled post. If you don't have anything to add, don't post.

This was a semi-serious debate, which we haven't had in a while. If you want to post nonsense, there's plenty of other places for that.

Viceroy Nute Gunray · 05-22-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodieKitty

What happened to my post?

Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

I ate it. It tasted like babies.

DELICIOUS POISON · 05-22-2006, 09:07 PM

I didn't misspell anything. If you want to go all grammar nazi on my ass, I may be guilty of defiling the language. I bet I got a smile out of NN, as well.

Alas... I am truly sorry, Koga. I shouldn't have said you were dutch, it was inappropriate.

Fact of the matter is, your only argument is your own narrow-minded opinion. Yes, of course you have a right to your opinion. That doesn't mean it will necessarily be correct for anyone but yourself, or that the games will suffer from an alternate form of control.

PSYCHOKID909 · 05-23-2006, 12:31 AM

Hmm I still wonder why both Sony and Microsoft want people to by a Wii as a second console.

05-19-2006, 08:42 PM	#66
*Ynot Shane* Not Ready to Make Nice Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Flaflooga Gender: Posts: 131,691 Thanks: 43 Thanked 461 Times in 226 Posts Points: 345,744.88 Bank: 36,015,909.54 Total Points: 36,361,654.42 Donate $Epic Current Event story dude \\m// - The Hiphopopotamus$	Wouldn't the best thing to come out since the NES be the PC? __________________ I can do anything that a 9-year-old and a monkey can do.

05-20-2006, 07:37 PM	#70
Booyakasha Mod of War Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Wisconsinland Gender: Posts: 7,129 Thanks: 92 Thanked 524 Times in 288 Posts Points: 17,032.71 Bank: 55,546.50 Total Points: 72,579.21 Donate	^Nintendo clearly doesn't want to go back on the throne. They said it themselves--this is a console 'for everyone', not for gamers. You don't win the hearts and minds of gamers by concentrating on the demographic that doesn't see the appeal of staying up 'til all hours mastering the intricacies of Mary's Dynamite Swing. (Wii's target audience wouldn't know what the hell I just said. Hell, most real gamers wouldn't, either. Sissies.) I tried out 'The Warriors' on XBox last year. It didn't do a whole lot for me, but Rockstar did some pretty interesting things with the controls. For instance, when spray-painting your gang's tag, you had to trace along a line with the joystick; stealing a car's radio meant rotating the joystick rapidly to simulate unscrewing it from the dashboard; that kind of thing. My point? You don't have to come up with a retarded gimmick controller in order to deliver fresh, innovative gameplay experiences to the people. __________________ Boo--beware, he lives Last edited by Booyakasha; 05-20-2006 at 07:46 PM.

05-19-2006, 03:25 PM	#61
Kirb-e Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Points: 845.44 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,345.44 Donate	Well now you're mentioning it as if the system is deemed to be an utter failure. This company isn't a dumb one. It's been around for about 116 years or so and I don't think they're going to pull out of the home console buisness simply because its not powerful enough. And apparently, going 3rd party isn't a great way to breath new life into games. Most of SEGA isn't even itself anymore they don't release great games liket they use to. That's like having your spoiled cake and eating it.

05-19-2006, 03:56 PM	#62
Dr. Horrible PP&R Mod Current Events Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: More important than where is when.... Gender: Posts: 6,786 Thanks: 137 Thanked 477 Times in 309 Posts Points: 6,578.28 Bank: 5,568,857.78 Total Points: 5,575,436.06 Donate	^^I think Nintendo does just that by keeping reasonable prices.

05-19-2006, 04:38 PM	#63
Codiekitty Just Another Face in Red Jumpsuit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Lemmingland Gender: Posts: 19,143 Thanks: 121 Thanked 174 Times in 120 Posts Points: 51,257.72 Bank: 3,021,450.74 Total Points: 3,072,708.46 Donate	^^ Okay, what exactly is the purpose of the Wii's controller? A few days ago it was "rake in people who probably don't want to and shouldn't be playing games anyway". A day or two ago it was "reinvent the wheel". Now it's "revive the market by inflating its problem" (or is Nintendo's goal to create The Great Video Game Crash Take 2 so they can repeat history?). For starters, the video game market has always been full of trashy license games. Home Improvement, Shaq Fu, that N64 Rugrats board game I can't be bothered to look up the name of, [Side note: Here starts games I own for whatever reason] Bart vs. the Space Mutants/the World, Pictionary, Night Rider, some stupid Sports games I only own because they came with the NES lot I got off eBay, and Rambo I can name off the top of my head. And that's just a tiny, tiny fraction of what's out there. I've even got an entire CD Booklet full of Saturn licensed and sports junk that I own because I wanted the cases (although I wasn't particularly happy to find that most of the cases were broken). True, it may be worse today, but... ...this ties into that whole "The Wii's purpose is to get everyone and the cats and rice ladles to play video games" thing you were talking about earlier. Why are these games made? Not because they're good, but because they sell. Why do they sell? Because they're aimed at the Spongebob and Barbie loving little boys and girls and 50 cent adoring teenagers who don't know what a real game is. And just how is even more games made for people without standards supposed to help the market? Games like Guitar Hero might be better off with those controllers, but look at what's done with the controllers after those games. Either you get rehash after rehash after rehash, or a $50 paperweight. The DK bongos got an awe inspiring three games that use them, one of which is basically a rehash of another. My bongos have been collecting dust since a couple weeks after the game came out. There's a limit with what you can do with these wild and crazy controllers. And am I the only person who finds it hilarous how the "killer reason to buy a Wii" is a game that doesn't even use its selling point? Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

05-20-2006, 11:11 AM	#67
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,316.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,177.99 Donate	Don't be ridiculous AI. There's no way of saying it will be better or worse, that's a matter of opinion. The only thing that's for certain is that it will be different. Some may like it, some may not. I don't.

05-20-2006, 07:03 PM	#69
Kirb-e Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Points: 845.44 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,345.44 Donate	^ Well I guess you could say that this goes back to the "whatever system that you make crap will come no matter what" arguement. Of course there are developers that will probably end up developing games such as this and thats unavoidable. And by limit of the controller, I meant a new way to play the games simply. Now it really depends on how the developers use the new controller, as I said earlier. Your Harvest Moon example is a perfect example. I wouldn't buy a Nintendo DS if all of the games innovative feature was tapping the screen to allow a switch of the map or something of this nature. I'm talking about using the Wii-mote in games like Excite Truck that would be virtually impossible on any other system (maybe PS3, but I'm not sure.) And that's Nintendo's current belief. Overall the answer is quite simple. Anyone can judge the system's future. Does it make it right to do so? I don't think so. But hey! I say wait it a couple of years and see what happens. Anyone who believes that this system will deliver the same type of quality if not more than past consoles, will be more than satisfied if Nintendo goes back on its throne. If the system fails, then all the naysayers reserve the immediate right to say "I told you so."

05-21-2006, 11:10 AM	#72
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,316.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,177.99 Donate	Thank you for a valuable contribution to the topic!

05-21-2006, 01:09 PM	#73
Codiekitty Just Another Face in Red Jumpsuit Join Date: May 2001 Location: Lemmingland Gender: Posts: 19,143 Thanks: 121 Thanked 174 Times in 120 Posts Points: 51,257.72 Bank: 3,021,450.74 Total Points: 3,072,708.46 Donate	What happened to my post? Where are these lemmings going? The Super Nintendo Super Shire! Hop in line and follow them there!

05-22-2006, 08:57 AM	#76
Kirb-e Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Points: 845.44 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,345.44 Donate	What the heck happened to mine as well? Well anyway, you know what I'm saying. I think we've made out points very clear.

05-22-2006, 05:13 PM	#77
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,316.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,177.99 Donate	I'm not acting like this is an important discussion. I just made a good point, and you responded with a childish, unfunny, misspelled post. If you don't have anything to add, don't post. This was a semi-serious debate, which we haven't had in a while. If you want to post nonsense, there's plenty of other places for that.

05-22-2006, 09:07 PM	#79
DELICIOUS POISON Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 16,925 Thanks: 579 Thanked 1,777 Times in 873 Posts Points: 17,913.57 Bank: 4,848,504.55 Total Points: 4,866,418.12 Donate	I didn't misspell anything. If you want to go all grammar nazi on my ass, I may be guilty of defiling the language. I bet I got a smile out of NN, as well. Alas... I am truly sorry, Koga. I shouldn't have said you were dutch, it was inappropriate. Fact of the matter is, your only argument is your own narrow-minded opinion. Yes, of course you have a right to your opinion. That doesn't mean it will necessarily be correct for anyone but yourself, or that the games will suffer from an alternate form of control.

05-23-2006, 12:31 AM	#80
PSYCHOKID909 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: On the run. Gender: Posts: 8,477 Thanks: 91 Thanked 45 Times in 38 Posts Points: 6,943.48 Bank: 6,786.13 Total Points: 13,729.61 Donate	Hmm I still wonder why both Sony and Microsoft want people to by a Wii as a second console.