The Wii.

[Wyborn]

Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch

What is this, the PSP vs. DS argument?

Fix'd.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Wyborn

Two problems with that: firstly, you only listed a quarter of the NPD list, which means that you did in fact misrepresent the numbers.

Secondly, numbers over one month don't necessarily mean anything either. Trends with "casual" games like Brain Age and Nintendogs show that they have much longer legs than do games like Madden or Halo - they sell somewhat slowly, yes, but they never sell below a certain level and people are constantly buying them. That's why Nintendogs has sold as much as the first two iterations of Halo combined, and Brain Age probably more than that.

I just mean to say that your point about the NPD numbers means nothing: casual games do sell on Nintendo systems, and they sell a lot, especially lifetime.

Oh there's no doubt they do sell more on Nintendo systems. I question the validity of throwing in DS/PSP/GBA/Portable games when talking about consoles. Again, the point was to debunk his point that those types are bigger than traditional gaming fare.

And the 2006 annual chart (which you glossed over) put the top 10 and completely dunked him.

Anecdotal evidence means exactly nothing because no matter what number of people you cite they will not be a representative part of Wii owners. The Wii is still selling out every month, and it's about to hit the same point that the DS did after its first year: games are actually about to start coming out for it, good games, at a decent pace. Word of mouth has been a big selling point of the Wii for a while now, even if you want to say that Nintendo is artificially creating demand (which seems ridiculous, considering the Wii has now surpassed lifetime sales of the 360).

The iPod has more sales than every other MP3 player combined, but lags behind the competition in every category, be it sound quality, computer interface, price-points or features. More sales has never equaled better (and I think even you'll admit the 360 has a larger "good to great" game library). My stateside claim of Wiis not getting used is completely anecdotal. I'll freely admit that I'm basing it off Interweb stuff. Yet, I find it extremely hard to believe that there isn't a sizable amount of the userbase that isn't using the Wiis in the states when Famitsu's head is citing studies saying that 67% of Wii owners in Japan, the land that loves "casual" or "gimmick" games, aren't playing the system.

There's a clear point where people will get fed up with a company not being able to meet supply, and at that point people will stop caring. Choking off shipments to where you only give out 10/store/2 weeks is artificially creating shortages, because no electronics company (especially one that's been in the game as long as Nintendo) is stupid enough to shortsight supply by this much.

And it passed the 360 because the 360 is stillborn in one of the major markets. Considering they may never pass the million system mark in Japan, they're doing pretty damn well in the grand scheme of things and the developing houses are following to the system, whether Japan likes it or not.

We've seen no signs of slowdown for Wii sales; that prediction is something you're pulling out of the air, ignoring the fact that the biggest game yet for the system is coming out in early 2008 (yes, I expect it to outsell Galaxies, albeit not by a lot).

We're going to be getting a lot more worthwhile games, in the form of Nintendo efforts, third party titles, Virtual Console titles, and WiiWare stuff.

I mean, I don't see any reason to not own a Wii. I definitely don't see any reason to expect it to quietly fade away.

First, I don't think Nintendo will let it sell more than Mario. If they though it would, MARIO would have been delayed till 2008 and SSB would get stuffed into December. Second, sales in Q1 as a whole are traditionally down, no matter what it is. That's why there's usually a gaping hole between December and March for game releases.

Third, there's a point where people (read: gamers) will stop buying and caring. It's great for Nintendo (and their shareholders) that people are buying the system and they are making money on each unit sold. How long do you think the demand is going to last? I really don't see a PS2/DS in Japan effect (where they can start making houses out of the damn things) on it, especially when they haven't put the good, solid software out to support the damn thing or its controls yet.

As far as worthwhile stuff, the only worthwhile stuff I've seen on the horizon is from Nintendo themselves. If you can name me a solid 3rd party game that's worth getting on the Wii and not a 360/PS3, please do because I haven't found one yet. Again, I can see the appeal of the VC, but I don't think it's something that makes people say "Oh hell yes I'm getting my Wii on" (Maybe I'm underestimating it).

The WiiWare stuff could be good (if the quality and price is right), but they first need to get something the hell out the door before I'll get remotely excited.

I don't see any reason to NOT own a Wii either. I bought one (wish I could say I was impressed so far, it's fun, but meh). I'm just saying I don't think the hype will last and they'll level off, and I'm also saying that anyone that thinks that casual games = NUMBAER 1 has a factually bankrupt argument.

[Wyborn]

If it comes down to a prediction argument, I have nothing compelling to say.

We'll see how it goes.

And the 360 has a pretty nice "bad to great" ratio, but the presence of shovelware does not make for a bad library. PS2 had more shovelware than any system I can think of since the NES, but it was undoubtedly the best system of the last generation because it had the most absolutely awesome, kick-ass games.

By the by, what Nintendo wants has nothing to do with it: Smash Bros. has more legs than any other Nintendo franchise, and Melee was still among the Gamecube's best sellers at the end of the console's life. I'm expecting more people to buy Brawl, and there's nothing that Nintendo can do to stop it. I imagine they delayed Brawl at least partially so it wouldn't suffocate Galaxies.

Regardless, we'll see if your predictions play out soon enough.

[Demonicus Prime]

*snort* Okay, here we go.


First off, if you fail to recognize the powerhouse Microsoft has, wether it's Halo 3, Mass Effect, Assassins's Creed, PGR4, GTA4, DMC4, COD4, Banjo3, Gears 2 at some point, Halo Wars, the Jackson Project, 90% of XBLA, or XBL itself, you're retarded. You don't neccesarily have to think it's the best, but simply tossing yourself into Lala land and pretending it's not there is childish. Yes, the Wii has amazing potential. But noone's done jack**** with it, at least until Brawl. Metroid, SPM, Galaxy, Brawl, and whatever FP games they plan on making are what's going to bring the sales up.


And do not, for the love of God, bring up the "FPS" arguement. Here, let me add a few 3P-style games, since you can't see your TV screen through your blind fanboyism.

Oblivion.
Gears Of War.
Dead Rising.
Transformers.
Stranglehold.

And those are just the ones off the top of my head, meaning ones worth buying the system for. I'm not saying you have to agree, you just have to accept. Oblivion is the best RPG on the market right now, hands down. Sure, say Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata, but they don't matter, in the long run. I believe that Mass Effect will boost sales marginally, no questions asked. I'm reading the book, and I'm looking forward to it almost as much as Saeed is looking at Brawl. But I'm also the kinda guy that classifies Mass Effect, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, and whatever else fits into that niche as seperate from RPGs. Final Fantasy gets repetitave and stupid, to me, so I play RPGs like Oblivion, KOTOR, things of the like.

And exclusivity has almost killed PS3. Andy McNamara said it in the last issue of GI, and I believed it far before he did. If there's two games, say Call Of Duty 3, and someone has the choice of playing on XBL and getting achievements, or paying more for the system itself for no online features, and certainly no bragging rights, who in their right mind wouldn't pick the 360 version? Assassin's Creed has most of their fanbase from 360 owners, and it'll probably stay that way.

And don't defile VGF by mentioning Too Human. I guarantee you that 80% of their sales won't even happen because of their lawsuit against Epic. That was a dumbass move by SK, no doubt about it. You don't challenge a monster developer, crying about an engine that they could have built themselves, and then have it thrown out of court because you read the agreement wrong. I, along with quite a few people I know, are boycotting Too Human for this reason. It looked okay in the first place, and they even messed that up. Who's to say it won't turn into Two Worlds, making everyone anticipate it, then coming out as basically unplayable?

I'll end my rant here, so I don't leave the house in a "Cry for humanity" mood.

[Wonder Wario]

Consoles: Serious Business.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by YoshiFreak. Again.

*snort* Okay, here we go.


First off, if you fail to recognize the powerhouse Microsoft has, wether it's Halo 3, Mass Effect, Assassins's Creed, PGR4, GTA4, DMC4, COD4, Banjo3, Gears 2 at some point, Halo Wars, the Jackson Project, 90% of XBLA, or XBL itself, you're retarded. You don't neccesarily have to think it's the best, but simply tossing yourself into Lala land and pretending it's not there is childish. Yes, the Wii has amazing potential. But noone's done jack**** with it, at least until Brawl. Metroid, SPM, Galaxy, Brawl, and whatever FP games they plan on making are what's going to bring the sales up.


And do not, for the love of God, bring up the "FPS" arguement. Here, let me add a few 3P-style games, since you can't see your TV screen through your blind fanboyism.

Oblivion.
Gears Of War.
Dead Rising.
Transformers.
Stranglehold.

And those are just the ones off the top of my head, meaning ones worth buying the system for. I'm not saying you have to agree, you just have to accept. Oblivion is the best RPG on the market right now, hands down. Sure, say Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata, but they don't matter, in the long run. I believe that Mass Effect will boost sales marginally, no questions asked. I'm reading the book, and I'm looking forward to it almost as much as Saeed is looking at Brawl. But I'm also the kinda guy that classifies Mass Effect, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, and whatever else fits into that niche as seperate from RPGs. Final Fantasy gets repetitave and stupid, to me, so I play RPGs like Oblivion, KOTOR, things of the like.

And exclusivity has almost killed PS3. Andy McNamara said it in the last issue of GI, and I believed it far before he did. If there's two games, say Call Of Duty 3, and someone has the choice of playing on XBL and getting achievements, or paying more for the system itself for no online features, and certainly no bragging rights, who in their right mind wouldn't pick the 360 version? Assassin's Creed has most of their fanbase from 360 owners, and it'll probably stay that way.

And don't defile VGF by mentioning Too Human. I guarantee you that 80% of their sales won't even happen because of their lawsuit against Epic. That was a dumbass move by SK, no doubt about it. You don't challenge a monster developer, crying about an engine that they could have built themselves, and then have it thrown out of court because you read the agreement wrong. I, along with quite a few people I know, are boycotting Too Human for this reason. It looked okay in the first place, and they even messed that up. Who's to say it won't turn into Two Worlds, making everyone anticipate it, then coming out as basically unplayable?

I'll end my rant here, so I don't leave the house in a "Cry for humanity" mood.

Oblivion borders on unplayable when you're in 3rd person. First person is the way to go. As per it being the best RPG out, yeah, it is (until they put out Fallout 3).

You left out the Clancy games (Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell). Crackdown was surprisingly good. The upcoming Ninja Gaiden II is in 3rd P. as well.

The future exclusivity of Mass Effect is in question with the EA buyout of Bioware. Mass Effect I is going to be exclusive (for now), but it's only a matter of time before they put II and III on everything known to man, along with some form of I (EA's general saturation strategy).

Ripping Too Human might envoke the wraith of the Wyborn. Epic deserved to be sued on that one IMO, and calling them a powerhouse is going a bit too far (they're pretty small, most of their power comes from licensing the Engine).

If Too Human can live up to half the hype, it's going to be a solid title. The latese vids really give off what I've been hoping for: something to fill that gaming gap left open by Diablo's hiatus. Hellgate London don't fit it because I'm not getting into a tiered multiplayer environment.

[BEARD BURGER MASTER]

I'm not sure if Devil May Cry 4 should be on that list. Not that it's a bad series, it is actually one of my favorite series. The thing is, one, the game isn't going to be 360 exclusive, with a release slated for the PS3 and PC (Although Capcom has had a bad reputation with porting games to the PC). Second, while the gameplay is going to be perhaps one of the most amazing systems since DMC3, the story is going to be iffy. While 3 had a great story, it was a prequel. Of course, the first one was alright, but the second one gives me mixed feelings. Then there's the fact that Capcom ran right into a corner by making Dante's personality dark instead of his classic trash-talking taunter. (think it's Trish's fault.) While people tend to ignore the story, I pretty much find myself dropping a game, no matter how good the system is, if the story is terrible beyond words. Look at what I did to Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance.

But, I've gone off topic by diving into a game that's not even out yet. Let me make it up.

The biggest beef I have currently with Nintendo is their inability to provide a first-party title that can last more than twenty hours. I haven't even picked up Twilight Princess since I beat it, Wario Ware has been gathering dust, Rayman Raving Rabbids is sitting somewhere, Red Steel has three layers of dust currently. Hell, most of my DS games haven't been played much at all. Meanwhile, I find myself going to my PS2 for some incredible hits, like DMC3, Guitar Hero 2, Okami, God of War, etc. Same goes with the 360. Even though I don't own one, I always love to play whenever I get the chance, and it's not just because of Halo. It's because these companies know how to make a game last. Delaying Smash Brothers? Bogus. That's one of the few things Nintendo has gotten right: Replay.

Now I have my doubts about the Wii. Luckily, we have ports like Resident Evil 4 to keep us occupied. *Sigh*

[Demonicus Prime]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Oblivion borders on unplayable when you're in 3rd person. First person is the way to go. As per it being the best RPG out, yeah, it is (until they put out Fallout 3).

You left out the Clancy games (Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell). Crackdown was surprisingly good. The upcoming Ninja Gaiden II is in 3rd P. as well.

The future exclusivity of Mass Effect is in question with the EA buyout of Bioware. Mass Effect I is going to be exclusive (for now), but it's only a matter of time before they put II and III on everything known to man, along with some form of I (EA's general saturation strategy).

Ripping Too Human might envoke the wraith of the Wyborn. Epic deserved to be sued on that one IMO, and calling them a powerhouse is going a bit too far (they're pretty small, most of their power comes from licensing the Engine).

If Too Human can live up to half the hype, it's going to be a solid title. The latese vids really give off what I've been hoping for: something to fill that gaming gap left open by Diablo's hiatus. Hellgate London don't fit it because I'm not getting into a tiered multiplayer environment.

In order:
I never said that Oblivion was good in 3rd, just that it was there.
I forgot about Clancy. Dammit.Crackdown was awesome, and Ninja Gaiden looks great too.
I guarantee you that after Microsoft sees the sales, they're gonna do what they did with Dead Rising to Mass Effect.
I never said that Too Human looked particularly bad, (playability wise) I'm just saying that that was a dumbass move on SK, wether Epic deserved it isn't important. I say that Epic's a powerhouse because of the GOTY that Gears won, completley deserving, and also of the engine. Alot of the games out there use the Epic engine now, because of Gears.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by YoshiFreak. Again.

In order:
I never said that Oblivion was good in 3rd, just that it was there.
I forgot about Clancy. Dammit.Crackdown was awesome, and Ninja Gaiden looks great too.
I guarantee you that after Microsoft sees the sales, they're gonna do what they did with Dead Rising to Mass Effect.
I never said that Too Human looked particularly bad, (playability wise) I'm just saying that that was a dumbass move on SK, wether Epic deserved it isn't important. I say that Epic's a powerhouse because of the GOTY that Gears won, completley deserving, and also of the engine. Alot of the games out there use the Epic engine now, because of Gears.

I just don't see EA allowing any of their console games to only hit one console. That's never been their style (especially in the modern age) and that would be a major departure. MS really doesn't have a say in the deal, especially considering EA owns the entire IP outright.

If some company licensed me an engine on the premise that it could do something, then failed to deliver updates or support in accordance to the license and my game missed release windows and suffered because of it, I'm suing. Plus, the average person that goes out and buys games doesn't have an idea of what the Unreal Engine is, let alone the drama between SK and Epic.

The current iteration of the Unreal Engine isn't without its problems. Gears was the first title to really use it, and we're just starting to get the product of hte licensed users out into the world. Many developers, not just SK have reported problems with working with the engine.

[Demonicus Prime]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

I just don't see EA allowing any of their console games to only hit one console. That's never been their style (especially in the modern age) and that would be a major departure. MS really doesn't have a say in the deal, especially considering EA owns the entire IP outright.

I never said that they had any right to. They didn't with Dead Rising, but MS paid Capcom to keep it on 360. I think it would be a very good idea to do the same thing on Mass Effect. I'm almost done with the book, and frankly, I don't think it would do well with the PS3. It flows seamlessly with most of the 360 games right now, and it's awesome.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by YoshiFreak. Again.

I never said that they had any right to. They didn't with Dead Rising, but MS paid Capcom to keep it on 360. I think it would be a very good idea to do the same thing on Mass Effect. I'm almost done with the book, and frankly, I don't think it would do well with the PS3. It flows seamlessly with most of the 360 games right now, and it's awesome.

Yeah, but Capcom's easier to bribe than EA. Here's a list of EA console games that are exclusive to one platform: _______. Even something like the Orange Box by Valve got put on the PS3, and Valve has gone on record bitching about the difficulty of programing for the system (they outsourced the port to EA London).

[GURU ANT]

To answer the original question: Because I wanted one.

Why did I want one?
Because I'm a casual gamer that plays nothing but Madden and an occasional Mario game here or there. Now mostly those Mario games are old school, so when the VC thing came up, I was happy, seeing as I'm not taking my whole damn SNES to UAB (or didn't take I should say). Not to mention I'm cheap and broke.

I think Wii just appeals to the casual fan, now I am disappointed with EA for just half-assing Madden 08 for the Wii (seriously, WTF?).

[Demonicus Prime]

Originally Posted by Read A Book

disappointed with EA for just half-assing Madden 08

It's not just on the Wii.

[GURU ANT]

I know, but I"m mad they half-assed it on the Wii.

Originally Posted by Me

now I am disappointed with EA for just half-assing Madden 08 for the Wii (seriously, WTF?).

[CaptHayfever]

You expected effort from a Madden title, Dre?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[GURU ANT]

I expected them to do the same thing all around the board like they did with the 360 and PS3. Those versions are pretty good, but the Wii one, they completely half-assed, they removed certain functions and features, and replaced it with some "Family play" BS. The presentation isn't even decent inthe Wii version, it sucks ass. I've stuck with 07 for now, which is fine by me, that's the last time I buy an EA game for Nintendo wtihout renting it first.

[STOP LOOKING AT ME]

Wait, Who's Arguing again.

I lost count after Wyborn V. Lurch.

Yeah, and Madden F's up on most Consoles that don't use normal controllers I.E: DS!

Also: About Mass Effect.....Well, If Sony(Or was it Microsoft?) Paid Rockstar 7 Million to keep some of GTA 4 Exculsive to thier system, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Booyakasha]

All right, I was at my friends' place earlier today, and I got to try out 'Super Paper Mario' and 'Mario Galaxy'. I also had a look at the VC content. And so now I pretty much have to go buy a Wii. Those bastards. They knew this would happen.

[Demonicus Prime]

To let it collect dust?

[Wyborn]

Originally Posted by Booyakasha

All right, I was at my friends' place earlier today, and I got to try out 'Super Paper Mario' and 'Mario Galaxy'. I also had a look at the VC content. And so now I pretty much have to go buy a Wii. Those bastards. They knew this would happen.

It happens to all of us, man. I mean....Mario Galaxy. Greater men than any of us have crumpled under such power.

Edit: Right, and you'll probably want to buy early. The damned things are scarce now, just wait until Black Friday.

Edit2: People who rip on Too Human because of the SK/Epic suit are dumb.