The Wii.

[Booyakasha]

Now I'm not trying to start a fight here. But, as some of you will remember, back before the Wii launched, I spent a lot of time (a lot) predicting that the Wii would fail, for reasons that I still consider rock-solid. The Wii's success, then, is a complete mystery to me. It just doesn't add up in my mind. My question, then, to Wii owners--what is the appeal?

[Darunia00]

My appeal is atypical of the traditional Wii owner. I love Nintendo titles, and as long as they are pumped out I'll buy them.

My impression of the casual Wii owner is how accesible it is. Most people who hadn't seriously considered video games prior to Wii did thus because holding a controller with multiple buttons which need to be operated with great precision and speed (without looking) has a pretty high learning curve. Those of us on these boards have probably mastered it all right, but the nongamer population can't keep up. Wii games are simple and accesible enough (not to mention fresh with the controls and whatnot) that pretty much anyone can have fun with them. I'm not sure Nintendo planned it this way, but it seems to have worked in their favor. Of course, this is pure speculation about people that aren't me, so bear that in mind as well.

[Wyborn]

You aren't alone, Boo; Lurch is still predicting the Wii will fall off the radar, and I imagine Shane harbors similar thoughts.

As to the reason for its appeal, it's bound to vary from person to person. The Virtual Console alone would be worth having the system for, to some; I know that I personally am giddy and delighted over being able to play Sin and Punishment, the raddest game to ever have a silly anime-style plot.

[Booyakasha]

^But the thing is, I couldn't imagine a world where XLA is considered a major selling point of the 360 ('Buy a 360! You can play 'Halo 3' and GTA4--plus, PAC-MAN! Wokka wokka wokka!') Why is VC so big? Is it the 'only game in town' syndrome?

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by Booyakasha

Now I'm not trying to start a fight here. But, as some of you will remember, back before the Wii launched, I spent a lot of time (a lot) predicting that the Wii would fail, for reasons that I still consider rock-solid. The Wii's success, then, is a complete mystery to me. It just doesn't add up in my mind. My question, then, to Wii owners--what is the appeal?

I actually just bought one last week (In a store as they got shipments on my lunch break, impulse bought it after half-assed looking for one). WiiSports lasted me three days before I was just bored with it. It's fun (except boxing, that's terrible), but I needed more. So I went around looking for games, and found that this system is filled to the brim with shovelware. Digging through a library of garbage, I bought the only two titles on the system I deemed to be "Worth A Crap" (TM). Those were Zelda and Metroid, and I haven't had a chance to play them since I picked them up yesterday (Toys R Us Buy 2 Get 1 Free rules). Outside of those, Mario Kart and Mario Galaxy are the only things on the calander I'll get immediately (I'm not a big SSB guy).

The Wii's success really seems artificial to me. If anyone doubts that the Wii was last year's OMG FAD!1 item for Christmas, they're a moron. The thing Nintendo did that almost no other fad has ever done is they've kept the demand extremely high by choking off supply with "shortages." Gaming systems are expected to hit shortages right after launch, but they're still facing shortages in N America almost a year later. Considering NoA went from saying "unprecidented supply" to "shortages until April 08" in a matter of weeks in September, it's pretty easy to get the conspiracy theory part in your head going.

Wy's right, I think the Wii's going to level off after December/January. If this occurs from Nintendo actually pushing the supply out of the factories and taking away that "Its rare so buy it" factor or from people saying "Screw it, I'm buying a PS360 because I can't find it" remains to be determined. Considering that the 360 has a powerful lineup this fall (with the centerpiece already out), I'm not sure how any "gamer' would choose a Wii over a 360, especially when their big thing they're pushing is "Wii Fit."

But I think the biggest problem they have is they haven't managed to push the controls past gimmick in all but like 3 games. Even then, they're not pushing out enough games to appeal to the traditional gamer (read: not party games or shovelware). The 3rd party offerings are a joke, and they've taken a little too long to tap the WiiWare channel. Also, they're not pushing any of the traditional games in the ads. I didn't even know Metroid came out. So much for it being a "Halo 3 killer" right? (and with no multiplayer, I just laugh harder at idiots that say that).

It did expand the market of who buys systems and plays them, there's no denying that. The question is if people are STILL playing them after they buy them. Famitsu's parent head cites that 67% of Japanese Wii are collecting dust (IGN Advertisement), and the evidence has been pointing to the same case stateside. On a personal level, I'm having problems justifying not playing Halo 3 for a Wii game.

I'm sure the VC is a draw for some, but to me it just strikes me as a total ripoff. Keep in mind, I still have a box or two of old games and functioning systems, so maybe I'm not the ideal person to buy them. I think my issue is I can't justify paying for a 20 year old title that hasn't even been touched up or recolored. Say what you want about XBL Arcade, they at least provide Arcade Ports and touch up the games to "HD."

[CaptHayfever]

I think the Wii's going to level off after December/January.

Which may be why Brawl was delayed until February.[/spontaneous only half-serious theory]

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[MASALOBOTOMY]

Here's my view of it:

The wii is more harboured towards 'Party games', which are generally what causual gamers tend to play most often, that, added with the Wii's motion sensor technology makes for some short fun, it also has alot more replay value games, eg Wario Ware.

[I am nobody]

Originally Posted by Booyakasha

^But the thing is, I couldn't imagine a world where XLA is considered a major selling point of the 360 ('Buy a 360! You can play 'Halo 3' and GTA4--plus, PAC-MAN! Wokka wokka wokka!') Why is VC so big? Is it the 'only game in town' syndrome?

Not everyone wants to play violent games like Halo and GTA. More people are atracted to "casual" games like Wii Sports and Warioware. VC isn't why the Wii is selling so many consoles. It's because the range of appeal is so much greater then the 360 or PS3.

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

I'm not sure how any "gamer' would choose a Wii over a 360, especially when their big thing they're pushing is "Wii Fit."

1. Wii fit is not getting more hype then SSBB or Mario Galaxy.
2. Why is the 360 so great? All it's big releases are FPS. What if you are not into the genre? Then you are stuck with Forza and a few games that would look better on the PS3.
3. RED RING OF DEATH.
4. CONSOLES SCRACTHING DISKS.
5. HALO 3 CASES SCRATCHING DISKS.


Are those enough reasons for you?

[Booyakasha]

Originally Posted by i_am_nobody

VC isn't why the Wii is selling so many consoles. It's because the range of appeal is so much greater then the 360 or PS3.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a rebuttal that doesn't involve me laughing so hard I barf up my entire skeleton.

[Wonder Wario]

In other words, he can't think up a good rebuttal. Hope you have one soon all the same.

[Booyakasha]

Laughter is the only rebuttal I offer to crazy, and I thought of it immediately.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by i_am_nobody

Not everyone wants to play violent games like Halo and GTA. More people are atracted to "casual" games like Wii Sports and Warioware. VC isn't why the Wii is selling so many consoles. It's because the range of appeal is so much greater then the 360 or PS3.



1. Wii fit is not getting more hype then SSBB or Mario Galaxy.
2. Why is the 360 so great? All it's big releases are FPS. What if you are not into the genre? Then you are stuck with Forza and a few games that would look better on the PS3.
3. RED RING OF DEATH.
4. CONSOLES SCRACTHING DISKS.
5. HALO 3 CASES SCRATCHING DISKS.



Are those enough reasons for you?

The Wii's range of appeal is E-T. If Manhunt appeals to you, you have problems and probably shouldn't be playing games.

Really? Because I swear the sales charts for console games show Sports, Halo, and other games you claim people "don't want." (Keep in Mind the Summer Months are traditionally release dead)

Originally Posted by NPD August (Top 5 games)

01. Madden NFL 08 (Xbox 360) - 896,600
02. Madden NFL 08 (PS2) - 643,600
03. BioShock (Xbox 360) - 490,900
04. Madden NFL 08 (PS3) - 336,200
05. Wii Play (Wii) - 256,800

Originally Posted by NPD July (Top 5 games)

1. NCAA Football 08 (360) 397,000
2. Guitar Hero Encore: Rocks the 80s (PS2) 339,000
3. Wii Play - (Wii) 278,000
4. NCAA Football 08 - (PS2) 236,000
5. Mario Party 8 - (Wii) 177,000

The September charts aren't up until tomorrow, though Halo is estimated to have moved more units in the first two weeks than some games hope for a lifetime. The prior summer months are fairly dead, mostly dominated by handheld games (read: Pokemon). The one steady Nintendo title that is always in the tip 5 is WiiPlay, though don't kid yourself to think its there because of the game. It's there because the thing costs $10 more than a Wiimote by itself. But let's look at last year's top 10 selling games:

Originally Posted by NPD 2006 Top 10 selling games

PS2--Madden NFL 07, Electronic Arts--2.8 M
NDS--New Super Mario Bros., Nintendo--2.0 M
360--Gears of War, Microsoft--1.8 M
PS2--Kingdom Hearts II, Square Enix--1.7 M
PS2--Guitar Hero II, Activision--1.3 M
PS2--Final Fantasy XII, Square Enix--1.3 M
NDS--Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day, Nintendo--1.1 M
360--Madden NFL 07, Electronic Arts--1.1 M
360--Tom Clancy's GRAW, Ubisoft--1.0 M
PS2--NCAA Football 07, Electronic Arts--1.0 M

Gee, ONE casual game (Brain Age). Nice argument. I'm sure it works at dumps like NeoGAF or GameFAQs where herds of retards run around holding their crotches and posting Internet memes while shrieking in high pitched prepubescent voices, but not when you deal with anyone that knows what they're talking about or to anyone that's actually played any of the systems.

1.) E3 2007: focal point of the presentation
2.) More games aimed at an older demograph, plus better 3rd party offerings. The "few games that would look better on the PS3" is, well, wrong. Refer to EA Sports games running at 30 fps on the PS3 and 60 on the 360. Refer to Oblivion and Ghost Recon looking identical (with issues on the PS3 version). Refer to lack of a coherantly good PS3 library.
3.) EXTENDED WARRANTY. Which, seriously, I hope more companies adopt. 90 days on the Wii is just ****ing stupid, as is the 90 or whatever they give you for the PS3.
4.) As opposed to the PS2 doing the same for the first two hardware iterations? This isn't even a widespread problem.
5.) Yeah, a batch of the LE cases carved up the discs. If you were a toolbox and bought it, sucks to be you. The normal edition and the super helmet edition didn't.

And really, I'm sorry I triggered your inferiority complex. Must suck to have that little faith in your genitalia to have to resort to acting like a dorkus malorkus on the Interweb. Welcome to real life: not everyone shares your opinion, and quite frankly the real world operates differently than your fantasy world. FACT: The Wii is filled with shovelware. FACT: The Wii has nothing resembling proper 3rd party support to make me choose any game outside of MAYBE Tiger Woods on it. FACT: The Nintendo releases are few and far between, and they're increasingly focusing away from traditional gaming crowds. FACT: Their ad and promotional focus is not on Mario or SSB, but on things like Brainage, Nintendogs, and Wii Fit.

Originally Posted by Booyakasha

I'm having a hard time coming up with a rebuttal that doesn't involve me laughing so hard I barf up my entire skeleton.

I got you covered my friend, though your approach may ultimately be the best one.

Originally Posted by CaptHayfever

Which may be why Brawl was delayed until February.[/spontaneous only half-serious theory]

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Possibly. My initial ping on it was networking issues with getting the online aspect to work. Plus not have been as far along as everyone thought. Plus, I have full faith in at least one major Nintendo delay per year to push one "big" title to Q1/Q2 range. I just couldn't see them putting out Mario and SSB in the same three week span.

[Dr. Horrible]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

dorkus malorkus

That's not Latin!

And on topic, I'd say that price is pretty underestimated as a contributer to the Wii's success, at least in this topic.

[I am nobody]

Alright if the 360 is so great, name one game that is going to be a major no-Halo related release that is a 360 exclusive.

[Maynard James Keenan]

Hm, there's been Crackdown, Blue Dragon, Gears of War, Saints Row, Dead Rising, Project Gotham Racing...

Coming out eventually:

Mass Effect, Banjo-Threeie, Fable 2, Too Human, Gears of War 2, Ninja Gaiden II...

[Dr. Horrible]

To be fair, if it's on PS3 and Xbox 360 it might as well be a 360 exclusive.

[Wyborn]

I will say that there are lots of games I consider worth owning.

I will say that posting the top 5 NPD games per month is purposefully misrepresenting the numbers - if you post the top 20 it's an entirely different picture.

I will also say that I'm not going to get into a list war with anybody in this topic, as list wars are the worst kind of stupid.

If the Wii doesn't interest you, hey, that's cool. Whether it's because the software in general doesn't appeal to you (c'mon, the new Trauma Center has co-op) or because of something else, doesn't matter. But I'm willing to bet the Wii isn't going to die off come January. This is just the beginning; word of mouth is the most powerful advertising force in the non-gamer world, and we're starting to hit a point where the Wii may be unstoppable.

We'll see.

....I'll also point out that Halo 3 didn't stay in the number 1 spot for two weeks in Europe; hell, it may not have had that first one, since it went up against FIFA.

[Lurch1982]

Originally Posted by i_am_nobody

Alright if the 360 is so great, name one game that is going to be a major no-Halo related release that is a 360 exclusive.

Here's two current, two futures:

Bioshock.
Gears of War.
Mass Effect.
Ninja Gaiden II.

That's a shortlist of games that either did (Gears) or will (Bioshock, Mass Effect, Ninja Gaiden II) make best of the year lists. And that doesn't tap that roughly 7.5 to 8.9 part of the review scale, where the 360 has far more games than the Wii (tons of crap with a few 9.0+ titles, with very little in between).

Originally Posted by Wyborn

I will say that there are lots of games I consider worth owning.

I will say that posting the top 5 NPD games per month is purposefully misrepresenting the numbers - if you post the top 20 it's an entirely different picture.

I will also say that I'm not going to get into a list war with anybody in this topic, as list wars are the worst kind of stupid.

If the Wii doesn't interest you, hey, that's cool. Whether it's because the software in general doesn't appeal to you (c'mon, the new Trauma Center has co-op) or because of something else, doesn't matter. But I'm willing to bet the Wii isn't going to die off come January. This is just the beginning; word of mouth is the most powerful advertising force in the non-gamer world, and we're starting to hit a point where the Wii may be unstoppable.

We'll see.

....I'll also point out that Halo 3 didn't stay in the number 1 spot for two weeks in Europe; hell, it may not have had that first one, since it went up against FIFA.

Yeah but you know damn well the point of me posting any list was to destroy his point of "More people want casual games," when practice and reality have shown that the people who spend money and buy games want Madden and real games.

I just don't see the Wii selling on word-of-mouth, just based on the notion that there are a large amount of them collecting dust from not being used.

Europe doesn't count and is still a widely untapped gaming market when you get down to it. Though they do kick ass for forcing Apple to unlock the iPhone in France. That just amuses me.

[Wyborn]

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Yeah but you know damn well the point of me posting any list was to destroy his point of "More people want casual games," when practice and reality have shown that the people who spend money want Madden and real games.

Two problems with that: firstly, you only listed a quarter of the NPD list, which means that you did in fact misrepresent the numbers.

Secondly, numbers over one month don't necessarily mean anything either. Trends with "casual" games like Brain Age and Nintendogs show that they have much longer legs than do games like Madden or Halo - they sell somewhat slowly, yes, but they never sell below a certain level and people are constantly buying them. That's why Nintendogs has sold as much as the first two iterations of Halo combined, and Brain Age probably more than that.

I just mean to say that your point about the NPD numbers means nothing: casual games do sell on Nintendo systems, and they sell a lot, especially lifetime.

I just don't see the Wii selling on word-of-mouth, just based on the notion that there are a large amount of them collecting dust from not being used.

Anecdotal evidence means exactly nothing because no matter what number of people you cite they will not be a representative part of Wii owners. The Wii is still selling out every month, and it's about to hit the same point that the DS did after its first year: games are actually about to start coming out for it, good games, at a decent pace. Word of mouth has been a big selling point of the Wii for a while now, even if you want to say that Nintendo is artificially creating demand (which seems ridiculous, considering the Wii has now surpassed lifetime sales of the 360).

Europe doesn't count and is still a widely untapped gaming market when you get down to it. Though they do kick ass for forcing Apple to unlock the iPhone in France. That just amuses me.

Pffffft.

Europe is largely untapped, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it is, as of right now, the second largest videogame territory in the world, only barely coming in behind the Americas. Domination in Europe alone would be enough to keep a system afloat for its entire lifecycle, which is good because the Wii is dominating in Europe right now.

I'm not quite sure what points you're trying to make.

We've seen no signs of slowdown for Wii sales; that prediction is something you're pulling out of the air, ignoring the fact that the biggest game yet for the system is coming out in early 2008 (yes, I expect it to outsell Galaxies, albeit not by a lot).

We're going to be getting a lot more worthwhile games, in the form of Nintendo efforts, third party titles, Virtual Console titles, and WiiWare stuff.

I mean, I don't see any reason to not own a Wii. I definitely don't see any reason to expect it to quietly fade away.

[Frumious B,]

What is this, 1 year ago?