DEATHMATCH: Ganondorf vs. Diablo

**Wyborn** · 12-01-2006, 10:44 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, whose of you who are old enough (in VGF terms) to remember this may be groaning in a sort of grudging recognition: yes, I'm bring the old arguments back.

The concept here is simple: in a deathmatch, we argue about who would kick whose ass in a knock-down, drag-out brawl. In a deathmatch we assume that any given character has all the equipment and powers they've ever had in any game, including if the character in question has been in multiple games.

Our combatants are:

Diablo, Lord of Terror

and

Ganondorf, King of Demon Thieves

The question is simple: who would win if they got in a fight? Remember that Diablo has all the powers from both games bearing his name, and Ganondorf has all powers from every game he's appeared in. These include the ability to transform, summon demons, blow crap up, or whatever. In addition, if either of them has weapons, they have anything they've ever carried.

Now, who wins?

And the entire purpose of this is a debate, so please, argue about it. Post your reasoning, and maybe we can get a debate going.

Edit: And as the game is so recent, I will say this: there will be no Twilight Princess spoilers in this thread. So, if Ganondorf is in Twilight Princess, what powers he has, etc, will not be brought up in any way. Understood? Great.

Link CDLVI · 12-01-2006, 11:30 PM

Definatly Gannon. He has that big metal thing, and really protective armor. Probaly another thousand reasons why, but i'll keep it simple.

***ZeldaGirl*** · 12-01-2006, 11:45 PM

I dunno, this is hard to call. Although major major kudos to you Wy, for bringing the deathmatches back! I love you!

Lurch1982 · 12-02-2006, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link456

Definatly Gannon. He has that big metal thing, and really protective armor. Probaly another thousand reasons why, but i'll keep it simple.

Yeah guy, some jabroni who gets beat down by a little kid 10 times is going to stomp on a deity.

Bomby · 12-02-2006, 01:03 AM

^ Yeah. Not a good look for Ganondorf.

***CaptHayfever*** · 12-02-2006, 01:43 AM

Hmm, a mortal sorcerer versus Satan the Prince of Darkness. Gee, I wonder.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

**Wyborn** · 12-02-2006, 04:32 AM

Different Diablo. At least, insofar as he is not nigh-omnipotent.

I will have a big, scary, many-paragraphs-long argument for you tomorrow as to why Ganondorf would kick Diablo's ass. Oh lovely day.

N Kong · 12-02-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch1982

Yeah guy, some jabroni who gets beat down by a little kid 10 times is going to stomp on a deity.

Actually Link only beat Ganondorf twice.

I think Ganondorf would win.

Lurch1982 · 12-02-2006, 06:19 PM

Um, chumpchange?

Zelda I: Stomped.
Zelda II: Not in game, but gets revived
A Link to the Past: Yep, he get stomped.
TOoT: Looky here, he got stomped.
Oracle of Ages/Seasons: Stomped.
Windwaker: Stomped.
Four Swords: Stomped.

[edited via Wyborn's request]

**Perrin Aybara** · 12-02-2006, 07:03 PM

Yeah, Ganon simply sucks at being evil. He shouldn't quit his day job.

And postng this in the Zelda forum *may* give this poll a slight bias.-jay

Galefore · 12-03-2006, 04:44 PM

ALL villains get killed in a stupid way by some kid/hero/plumber/anyotheroddcharacterwhoisdestinedtowin, even Diablo. And please note that Link isn't always a child when he beats Ganon. Simply for being such a great recurring villain, Ganondorf has my vote.

X-3 · 12-03-2006, 06:36 PM

(Crav: Don't do it again. )

I have to say Diablo. Isn't he a demon? Ganon isn't, and he gets beaten up a lot. By a teenager who isn't even wearing armor.

Galefore · 12-04-2006, 05:03 PM

^Need I reiterate?

Ganon may be partly human (He's actually a human-turned-pig according to LTTP, and the Triforce makes him nearly all-powerful.) Even IF Link beats him, FIRST of all, you can give that point to destiny. Also, Link is the hero of time, has all sorta of nifty gadgets, and would have failed miserably if he hadn't called upon the help of 6 goonies along with a princess to help his ass out of the predicament. Heck, Link had to beg help from a PRINCESS WITH PRETTY ARROWS to beat him in WW.

In my eyes, this "teenager with no armor" that we so highly revere as "teh beeter of ganondork" is severely powerful, so you can't blame Ganon for losing to the destined winner. With myriads of talismans, enchanted songs, and a triforce piece, not to mention multiple divine weapons and items, Link's bound to have something to win with, so Ganon is pretty much in the "this is a game teh heero alwaes wins lol dernt dernt" rut.

Without the master sword, a sword of ultimate power of evil's destruction, Ganondorf woulda smothered Link's kiddy ass. In actuality, Ganondorf is INVINCIBLE to EVERYTHING except light-arrows and the Master Sword. Diablo isn't nearly that invincible, and Ganondorf is just so powerful and able to return every freaking time, even from the swirling hell of the Sage's Seal...

Ganon wins, hands down.

**Wyborn** · 12-05-2006, 02:41 AM

Jay, I think the fact that some people are posting saying "no wai a mortal could beat SATAN!!!!" goes to show that this place is not entirely biased in favor of Ganon.

Okay, time to get into this for real.

WARNING: WIND WAKER SPOILERS WITHIN - THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING

Firstly, Diablo is not invincible, and he is not immortal. He is perfectly capable of getting his ass kicked - by a normal guy, no less. That's right, the guy who beats Diablo's ass (in either game) is no more special than Link - in reality he's a lot less special for reasons that will be gotten into later on in this post. Diablo's a bad dude, sure, and possessed the first guy who beat his ass, but he's not the ultimate demon sultan that you all think he is. Of course, even if he were, it might not matter.

I'll be as succinct as posisble, here. First, Ganondorf could beat Diablo's ass without any of the Triforce pieces, and with them it's not a contest. Why do I say this?

Consider the goddesses of Hyrule - who are creation goddesses, they made the world and all life in it and set down the laws of reality, and are way, WAY badder than Diablo ever thought about being. The three of them together have more or less complete control over reality. Diablo is probably more comparable to one of the guardian gods of Hyrule, the lesser gods who stand for elements - like Jabu Jabu or Valoo from Wind Waker. They're gods, they're unholy powerful in their own right, and to the average mortal they might as well be invincible, but they are not omnipotent. So yeah, we've established that Triforce goddesses > Diablo by a huge margin.

The Triforce itself is just as bad - when the goddesses left the Sacred Realm they left the Triforce in their wake - it was the essence of the gods, literally the stuff that made them what they were. Leaving it did not lessen them, but it created a new power just as severe. The Triforce has the same power to change reality that the goddesses do, up to and including changing the way that people's bodies are shaped. It makes the world itself reflect the heart and mind of whoever holds it - so it's more than just a wish-granter, it's a sort of god-maker, and anyone holding it will essentially be all-powerful. It is needless to say that if we give Ganondorf the whole Triforce (as he had it in LttP), Diablo is boned.

But that doesn't make sense, you say. We defeated Ganon in Link to the Past when he had the whole Triforce, you say. He should have been all-powerful! And you are quite right. The reason for this is simple: the Master Sword.

Yes, it's true tat the Master Sword is the sword of Evil's Bane, but it seems to have the added effect of being useful against wielders of the Triforce, negating its power to some effect or another and allowing the user to fight against them. This is a part of the reason that it's so important to have the Master Sword when fighting Ganon: not only will it hurt him, but unless you have it then fighting him becomes an exercise in your suicidal tendencies, you crazy duck.

Of course, having the Master Sword is rarely enough in and of itself - when he has the whole Triforce, you need some extra boost to hurt him after the master Sword has stripped away his defenses, such as Silver Arrows. As LttP is the only game wherein Ganondorf possesses the entire Triforce, it is the only game where such measures have been necessary: typically the Master Sword is enough by itself, with other weapons (like the Light Arrows) only serving the purpose of stunning him.

So, yes, Ganondorf with the whole Triforce would stomp Diablo to death and there's no question - he could probably will his ass kicked.. But maybe that's not fair either - after all, why should Gannon be the one with the One Item of Ultimate Power? So we'll say Ganondorf doesn't get the whole Triforce.

So let's say the Triforce of Power. As the essence of Din, apparently the goddess of power, this artifact in theory gives unlimited power to the person in question - just not the ability to change the rules of the universe or create life (though Ganon may have done these using his own skills fueled by the ToP). With it, Ganon can do basically anything - so long as Diablo doesn't have one of the other Triforce pieces to mitigate its power (and they do serve as a sort of limited protection against the ToP) then Ganondorf can use it to crush him into paste with nothing else.

I don't think it would be fair to take the Triforce of Power from him, though - he's only been in one game where he doesn't get that. However, for the sake of argument, we will examine how powerful Ganondorf is in the one game where he doesn't hold the Triforce: Wind Waker.

In Wind Waker, Ganondorf does numerous things relating to how bad-ass he is: one of the first is taking a full head-on attack from Valoo, a fire god, which completely destroys the tower he was in but does not seem to do any lasting damage to Ganondorf himself. Immediately after delivering the attack, which served as more of a diversion, Valoo ran like Hell. This means, right up, that Ganondorf could most likely take an assault from Diablo and come out of it more or less okay. ...wait, now that i think of it he has the Triforce of Power at this time. So moving on.

The real stuff is at the end of the game, so I will warn once more:

SPOILERS BELOW

At the end of the game, it is revealed that, by using his magic, Ganondorf has kept the waters of the entire ocean from crashing down and destroying Hyrule. Let your mind try to grasp the full extent of that - Ganondorf is using his magic to hold back the ocean, hundreds of fathoms down, over the entire kingdom. The amount of power required to do this beggars the imagination. He started the spell with the Triforce of Power, but this is irrelevant as the ocean does not come crashing down even after he casts the ToP from his body, meaning he's holding it up himself.

I need to make mention of Light Arrows in Wind Waker, as they're different from those in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask: they're so brutally powerful that there's no comparison. If they hit an enemy, the enemy will die. Moblin? Dead. Imp? Dead. Hell, if you shoot a Darknut in an exposed spot, it's dead too. And it's not just dead - it erupts into a brilliant orb of light that slowly contracts into nothing and dissipates. These things are bad.

When Ganondorf gets shot with one, it just really pisses him off - and yes, this is without the Triforce of power. When Zelda shoots him with a Light Arrow something like five times she gets knocked the hell out.

Back to what Ganondorf works against - in the final battle, Ganondorf has no Triforce piece and no magic to call upon; he uses his swords, presumably because all of his magic is being focused towards holding back the ocean. Now, this may seem like I'm repeating myself, but the fact of the matter is this: Ganondorf is holding back the ocean while he's being attacked with the Master Sword, shot with Light Arrows, and in general getting his ass kicked. The ocean only begins to leak through because someone makes a wish on the Triforce to flood Hyrule forever, and then it only comes through in a relative trickle, flooding the place very slowly - until he dies, at which point it all comes crashing down at once.

I need to say that again: Ganondorf is holding back the weight of the ocean, fighting the Master Sword (remember, it's more or less made specifically to kill him), being shot with Light Arrows that might as well be Silver Arrows, and he only gives in inches when the Triforce itself is leveled against him. This does not conflict with the Triforce's omnipotence, but the fact that Ganondorf didn't collapse and explode shows that he has a level of power so great it boggles the mind.

So Ganondorf, even without the Triforce of Power, could in all likelihood kick Diablo's ass into his teeth.

With the Triforce of Power it's just going to be more violent.

With the whole Triforce it's like the punchline to a knock-knock joke - not funny.

So that's it! Anyone care to argue?

X-3 · 12-05-2006, 03:58 PM

After all of what Wyborn said...I change my vote to Ganondorf.
Things Ganondorf has survived*SPOILERS*:

Spoiler Below

Getting beat up like crazy, then stabbed in the head.
-Getting shot by arrows, then stabbed in the head again, then turning into stone.
-Getting slashed a lot, and murdered by arrows.
-Getting resurrected...then going crazy and getting killed again.
-Getting quadruple-teamed and murdered.
-Getting slashed a lot, and murdered by arrows...again.
-Getting an item thrown at him THREE TIMES.

That's a lot more Diablo has gone through, I think.
BTW, sorry about the last post.

EDIT-Was lazy and forgot to do tags correctly.

zepatient · 12-05-2006, 10:35 PM

...I thought Ganondorf was the King of Thieves (Gerudos), not DEMON Thieves. Even though you COULD count him as one.

***ZeldaGirl*** · 12-07-2006, 07:03 PM

Wyborn makes one heck of a convincing argument. Kudos to you.

View Poll Results: Who kicks whose ass?
Ganondorf owns Diablo	10	71.43%
Diablo owns Ganondorf	4	28.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll \| Withdraw Vote

12-01-2006, 10:44 PM	#1
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,333 Thanks: 86 Thanked 456 Times in 274 Posts Points: 21,230.80 Bank: 88,927.77 Total Points: 110,158.57 Donate	DEATHMATCH: Ganondorf vs. Diablo Ladies and gentlemen, whose of you who are old enough (in VGF terms) to remember this may be groaning in a sort of grudging recognition: yes, I'm bring the old arguments back. The concept here is simple: in a deathmatch, we argue about who would kick whose ass in a knock-down, drag-out brawl. In a deathmatch we assume that any given character has all the equipment and powers they've ever had in any game, including if the character in question has been in multiple games. Our combatants are: Diablo, Lord of Terror and Ganondorf, King of Demon Thieves The question is simple: who would win if they got in a fight? Remember that Diablo has all the powers from both games bearing his name, and Ganondorf has all powers from every game he's appeared in. These include the ability to transform, summon demons, blow crap up, or whatever. In addition, if either of them has weapons, they have anything they've ever carried. Now, who wins? And the entire purpose of this is a debate, so please, argue about it. Post your reasoning, and maybe we can get a debate going. Edit: And as the game is so recent, I will say this: there will be no Twilight Princess spoilers in this thread. So, if Ganondorf is in Twilight Princess, what powers he has, etc, will not be brought up in any way. Understood? Great. Last edited by Wyborn; 12-01-2006 at 11:05 PM.

12-02-2006, 01:43 AM	#6
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 20,026 Thanks: 313 Thanked 1,014 Times in 615 Posts Points: 123,508.76 Bank: 2,638.67 Total Points: 126,147.43 Donate	Hmm, a mortal sorcerer versus Satan the Prince of Darkness. Gee, I wonder. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!" Last edited by CaptHayfever; 12-02-2006 at 01:47 PM.

12-03-2006, 06:36 PM	#12
X-3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Inside the dark soul of mankind. Gender: Posts: 9,985 Thanks: 358 Thanked 435 Times in 316 Posts Blog Entries: 5 Points: 17,271.94 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 17,271.94 Donate	(Crav: Don't do it again. ) I have to say Diablo. Isn't he a demon? Ganon isn't, and he gets beaten up a lot. By a teenager who isn't even wearing armor. Last edited by Cravdraa; 12-03-2006 at 10:33 PM.

12-05-2006, 03:58 PM	#15
X-3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Inside the dark soul of mankind. Gender: Posts: 9,985 Thanks: 358 Thanked 435 Times in 316 Posts Blog Entries: 5 Points: 17,271.94 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 17,271.94 Donate	After all of what Wyborn said...I change my vote to Ganondorf. Things Ganondorf has survivedSPOILERS: Spoiler Below Getting beat up like crazy, then stabbed in the head. -Getting shot by arrows, then stabbed in the head again, then turning into stone. -Getting slashed a lot, and murdered by arrows. -Getting resurrected...then going crazy and getting killed again. -Getting quadruple-teamed and murdered. -Getting slashed a lot, and murdered by arrows...again. -Getting an item thrown at him THREE TIMES. That's a lot more Diablo has gone through, I think. BTW, sorry about the last post. EDIT-Was lazy and forgot to do tags correctly. Last edited by X-3; 12-06-2006 at 07:21 AM.

12-01-2006, 11:30 PM	#2
Link CDLVI Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 38° North Latitude, 104° West Longitude Gender: Posts: 1,763 Thanks: 40 Thanked 58 Times in 44 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 2,901.42 Bank: 20,982.35 Total Points: 23,883.77 Donate	Definatly Gannon. He has that big metal thing, and really protective armor. Probaly another thousand reasons why, but i'll keep it simple.

12-01-2006, 11:45 PM	#3
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 12,594 Thanks: 573 Thanked 962 Times in 648 Posts Points: 39,761.84 Bank: 909,378.75 Total Points: 949,140.59 Donate	I dunno, this is hard to call. Although major major kudos to you Wy, for bringing the deathmatches back! I love you!

12-02-2006, 01:03 AM	#5
Bomby VGF's Resident Lennonist Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Caught beneath the landslide in a champagne supernover in the sky Gender: Posts: 15,544 Thanks: 234 Thanked 716 Times in 454 Posts Blog Entries: 4 Points: 7,870.50 Bank: 5,150,329.34 Total Points: 5,158,199.85 Donate	^ Yeah. Not a good look for Ganondorf.

12-02-2006, 04:32 AM	#7
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,333 Thanks: 86 Thanked 456 Times in 274 Posts Points: 21,230.80 Bank: 88,927.77 Total Points: 110,158.57 Donate	Different Diablo. At least, insofar as he is not nigh-omnipotent. I will have a big, scary, many-paragraphs-long argument for you tomorrow as to why Ganondorf would kick Diablo's ass. Oh lovely day.

12-02-2006, 06:19 PM	#9
Lurch1982 Senior Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Katrinaland, USA Gender: Posts: 9,271 Thanks: 122 Thanked 253 Times in 140 Posts Points: 36,146.71 Bank: 338,725.11 Total Points: 374,871.82 Donate	Um, chumpchange? Zelda I: Stomped. Zelda II: Not in game, but gets revived A Link to the Past: Yep, he get stomped. TOoT: Looky here, he got stomped. Oracle of Ages/Seasons: Stomped. Windwaker: Stomped. Four Swords: Stomped. [edited via Wyborn's request]

12-02-2006, 07:03 PM	#10
Perrin Aybara LLLUUUCCCCCCAAA!!! Ban HotD Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Alone....so terribly alone... Some... where... out... there... dies Gender: Posts: 11,888 Thanks: 191 Thanked 429 Times in 203 Posts Points: 47,079.42 Bank: 263,453.38 Total Points: 310,532.80 Donate	Yeah, Ganon simply sucks at being evil. He shouldn't quit his day job. And postng this in the Zelda forum may give this poll a slight bias.-jay

12-03-2006, 04:44 PM	#11
Galefore Gunjinkeeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ha ha ha ha ha... Gender: Posts: 6,086 Thanks: 754 Thanked 453 Times in 328 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Points: 774.76 Bank: 30,891.85 Total Points: 31,666.61 Donate	ALL villains get killed in a stupid way by some kid/hero/plumber/anyotheroddcharacterwhoisdestinedtowin, even Diablo. And please note that Link isn't always a child when he beats Ganon. Simply for being such a great recurring villain, Ganondorf has my vote.

12-04-2006, 05:03 PM	#13
Galefore Gunjinkeeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ha ha ha ha ha... Gender: Posts: 6,086 Thanks: 754 Thanked 453 Times in 328 Posts Blog Entries: 3 Points: 774.76 Bank: 30,891.85 Total Points: 31,666.61 Donate	^Need I reiterate? Ganon may be partly human (He's actually a human-turned-pig according to LTTP, and the Triforce makes him nearly all-powerful.) Even IF Link beats him, FIRST of all, you can give that point to destiny. Also, Link is the hero of time, has all sorta of nifty gadgets, and would have failed miserably if he hadn't called upon the help of 6 goonies along with a princess to help his ass out of the predicament. Heck, Link had to beg help from a PRINCESS WITH PRETTY ARROWS to beat him in WW. In my eyes, this "teenager with no armor" that we so highly revere as "teh beeter of ganondork" is severely powerful, so you can't blame Ganon for losing to the destined winner. With myriads of talismans, enchanted songs, and a triforce piece, not to mention multiple divine weapons and items, Link's bound to have something to win with, so Ganon is pretty much in the "this is a game teh heero alwaes wins lol dernt dernt" rut. Without the master sword, a sword of ultimate power of evil's destruction, Ganondorf woulda smothered Link's kiddy ass. In actuality, Ganondorf is INVINCIBLE to EVERYTHING except light-arrows and the Master Sword. Diablo isn't nearly that invincible, and Ganondorf is just so powerful and able to return every freaking time, even from the swirling hell of the Sage's Seal... Ganon wins, hands down.

12-05-2006, 02:41 AM	#14
Wyborn Zelda Mod Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: All over the place Gender: Posts: 12,333 Thanks: 86 Thanked 456 Times in 274 Posts Points: 21,230.80 Bank: 88,927.77 Total Points: 110,158.57 Donate	Jay, I think the fact that some people are posting saying "no wai a mortal could beat SATAN!!!!" goes to show that this place is not entirely biased in favor of Ganon. Okay, time to get into this for real. WARNING: WIND WAKER SPOILERS WITHIN - THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING Firstly, Diablo is not invincible, and he is not immortal. He is perfectly capable of getting his ass kicked - by a normal guy, no less. That's right, the guy who beats Diablo's ass (in either game) is no more special than Link - in reality he's a lot less special for reasons that will be gotten into later on in this post. Diablo's a bad dude, sure, and possessed the first guy who beat his ass, but he's not the ultimate demon sultan that you all think he is. Of course, even if he were, it might not matter. I'll be as succinct as posisble, here. First, Ganondorf could beat Diablo's ass without any of the Triforce pieces, and with them it's not a contest. Why do I say this? Consider the goddesses of Hyrule - who are creation goddesses, they made the world and all life in it and set down the laws of reality, and are way, WAY badder than Diablo ever thought about being. The three of them together have more or less complete control over reality. Diablo is probably more comparable to one of the guardian gods of Hyrule, the lesser gods who stand for elements - like Jabu Jabu or Valoo from Wind Waker. They're gods, they're unholy powerful in their own right, and to the average mortal they might as well be invincible, but they are not omnipotent. So yeah, we've established that Triforce goddesses > Diablo by a huge margin. The Triforce itself is just as bad - when the goddesses left the Sacred Realm they left the Triforce in their wake - it was the essence of the gods, literally the stuff that made them what they were. Leaving it did not lessen them, but it created a new power just as severe. The Triforce has the same power to change reality that the goddesses do, up to and including changing the way that people's bodies are shaped. It makes the world itself reflect the heart and mind of whoever holds it - so it's more than just a wish-granter, it's a sort of god-maker, and anyone holding it will essentially be all-powerful. It is needless to say that if we give Ganondorf the whole Triforce (as he had it in LttP), Diablo is boned. But that doesn't make sense, you say. We defeated Ganon in Link to the Past when he had the whole Triforce, you say. He should have been all-powerful! And you are quite right. The reason for this is simple: the Master Sword. Yes, it's true tat the Master Sword is the sword of Evil's Bane, but it seems to have the added effect of being useful against wielders of the Triforce, negating its power to some effect or another and allowing the user to fight against them. This is a part of the reason that it's so important to have the Master Sword when fighting Ganon: not only will it hurt him, but unless you have it then fighting him becomes an exercise in your suicidal tendencies, you crazy duck. Of course, having the Master Sword is rarely enough in and of itself - when he has the whole Triforce, you need some extra boost to hurt him after the master Sword has stripped away his defenses, such as Silver Arrows. As LttP is the only game wherein Ganondorf possesses the entire Triforce, it is the only game where such measures have been necessary: typically the Master Sword is enough by itself, with other weapons (like the Light Arrows) only serving the purpose of stunning him. So, yes, Ganondorf with the whole Triforce would stomp Diablo to death and there's no question - he could probably will his ass kicked.. But maybe that's not fair either - after all, why should Gannon be the one with the One Item of Ultimate Power? So we'll say Ganondorf doesn't get the whole Triforce. So let's say the Triforce of Power. As the essence of Din, apparently the goddess of power, this artifact in theory gives unlimited power to the person in question - just not the ability to change the rules of the universe or create life (though Ganon may have done these using his own skills fueled by the ToP). With it, Ganon can do basically anything - so long as Diablo doesn't have one of the other Triforce pieces to mitigate its power (and they do serve as a sort of limited protection against the ToP) then Ganondorf can use it to crush him into paste with nothing else. I don't think it would be fair to take the Triforce of Power from him, though - he's only been in one game where he doesn't get that. However, for the sake of argument, we will examine how powerful Ganondorf is in the one game where he doesn't hold the Triforce: Wind Waker. In Wind Waker, Ganondorf does numerous things relating to how bad-ass he is: one of the first is taking a full head-on attack from Valoo, a fire god, which completely destroys the tower he was in but does not seem to do any lasting damage to Ganondorf himself. Immediately after delivering the attack, which served as more of a diversion, Valoo ran like Hell. This means, right up, that Ganondorf could most likely take an assault from Diablo and come out of it more or less okay. ...wait, now that i think of it he has the Triforce of Power at this time. So moving on. The real stuff is at the end of the game, so I will warn once more: SPOILERS BELOW At the end of the game, it is revealed that, by using his magic, Ganondorf has kept the waters of the entire ocean from crashing down and destroying Hyrule. Let your mind try to grasp the full extent of that - Ganondorf is using his magic to hold back the ocean, hundreds of fathoms down, over the entire kingdom. The amount of power required to do this beggars the imagination. He started the spell with the Triforce of Power, but this is irrelevant as the ocean does not come crashing down even after he casts the ToP from his body, meaning he's holding it up himself. I need to make mention of Light Arrows in Wind Waker, as they're different from those in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask: they're so brutally powerful that there's no comparison. If they hit an enemy, the enemy will die. Moblin? Dead. Imp? Dead. Hell, if you shoot a Darknut in an exposed spot, it's dead too. And it's not just dead - it erupts into a brilliant orb of light that slowly contracts into nothing and dissipates. These things are bad. When Ganondorf gets shot with one, it just really pisses him off - and yes, this is without the Triforce of power. When Zelda shoots him with a Light Arrow something like five times she gets knocked the hell out. Back to what Ganondorf works against - in the final battle, Ganondorf has no Triforce piece and no magic to call upon; he uses his swords, presumably because all of his magic is being focused towards holding back the ocean. Now, this may seem like I'm repeating myself, but the fact of the matter is this: Ganondorf is holding back the ocean while he's being attacked with the Master Sword, shot with Light Arrows, and in general getting his ass kicked. The ocean only begins to leak through because someone makes a wish on the Triforce to flood Hyrule forever, and then it only comes through in a relative trickle, flooding the place very slowly - until he dies, at which point it all comes crashing down at once. I need to say that again: Ganondorf is holding back the weight of the ocean, fighting the Master Sword (remember, it's more or less made specifically to kill him), being shot with Light Arrows that might as well be Silver Arrows, and he only gives in inches when the Triforce itself is leveled against him. This does not conflict with the Triforce's omnipotence, but the fact that Ganondorf didn't collapse and explode shows that he has a level of power so great it boggles the mind. So Ganondorf, even without the Triforce of Power, could in all likelihood kick Diablo's ass into his teeth. With the Triforce of Power it's just going to be more violent. With the whole Triforce it's like the punchline to a knock-knock joke - not funny. So that's it! Anyone care to argue?

12-05-2006, 10:35 PM	#16
zepatient Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 3 days from next Wednesday Gender: Posts: 358 Thanks: 6 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Points: 4,489.95 Bank: 2,006.47 Total Points: 6,496.42 Donate	...I thought Ganondorf was the King of Thieves (Gerudos), not DEMON Thieves. Even though you COULD count him as one.

12-07-2006, 07:03 PM	#17
*ZeldaGirl* Venting SuperMod Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Why do YOU want to know...? Gender: Posts: 12,594 Thanks: 573 Thanked 962 Times in 648 Posts Points: 39,761.84 Bank: 909,378.75 Total Points: 949,140.59 Donate	Wyborn makes one heck of a convincing argument. Kudos to you.