The Double Timeline Theory (WW spoilers) - Page 2

imported_jigglypuffer · 06-03-2003, 04:04 PM

I think like this:

First Link:
OoT.
MM.
LttP.
LAw.
OoS.
OoA.

Second Link:
LoZ.

Third Link:
LAd.

Forth Link:
WW.
WW2.

I think that the second and third Links quests was not mentioned in the legend of WW. And the other land adventures were the first Link stumbling upon dimensional warps (which Tingle used to get from Termina to the Great Sea) and a dream he had out on the sea.
And that Deku Tree problem... in the ending of OoT, you see Link meet Zelda again. That was before Link was frozen in time to travel seven years, perhaps the Deku Tree never got a curse and Link just sneaked out of the Lost Woods and went to the Hyrule Castle without anyone telling him to. Or the Deku Trees soul just flew away and mystically produced a sprout for himself to be revived on a high mountaintop of Hyrule. But still I can´t explain how the legend in WW was about something that were turned to be something that never happened.

imported_jigglypuffer · 06-03-2003, 04:04 PM

I think like this:

First Link:
OoT.
MM.
LttP.
LAw.
OoS.
OoA.

Second Link:
LoZ.

Third Link:
LAd.

Forth Link:
WW.
WW2.

I think that the second and third Links quests was not mentioned in the legend of WW. And the other land adventures were the first Link stumbling upon dimensional warps (which Tingle used to get from Termina to the Great Sea) and a dream he had out on the sea.
And that Deku Tree problem... in the ending of OoT, you see Link meet Zelda again. That was before Link was frozen in time to travel seven years, perhaps the Deku Tree never got a curse and Link just sneaked out of the Lost Woods and went to the Hyrule Castle without anyone telling him to. Or the Deku Trees soul just flew away and mystically produced a sprout for himself to be revived on a high mountaintop of Hyrule. But still I can´t explain how the legend in WW was about something that were turned to be something that never happened.

Legion · 06-03-2003, 04:07 PM

Yeah. I didn't actually read all of your theory when I posted. I only saw the Dark World bit afterwards. Although it may not be that simple.

Say LttP comes after WW. Surely, somewhere in the leeds they'd have some mention, even just a passing mention, of a Great Flood, or at least a jourey to a new land. They could have quite easily done that with the LttP for GBA. I mean, they changed the Wise Men to Sages didn't they?

Also, if it took place in a different land then why are all the landmarks from previous and later (depending on your view) games in LttP? Surely they couldn't have found a land with every single one of those landmarks.

Plus the Master word is impaled in Ganon's head, so unless he transformed into a plinth and warped into the new Lost Woods, then they'd have a bit of trouble aquirring the Sword of Evil's Bane.

Legion · 06-03-2003, 04:07 PM

Yeah. I didn't actually read all of your theory when I posted. I only saw the Dark World bit afterwards. Although it may not be that simple.

Say LttP comes after WW. Surely, somewhere in the leeds they'd have some mention, even just a passing mention, of a Great Flood, or at least a jourey to a new land. They could have quite easily done that with the LttP for GBA. I mean, they changed the Wise Men to Sages didn't they?

Also, if it took place in a different land then why are all the landmarks from previous and later (depending on your view) games in LttP? Surely they couldn't have found a land with every single one of those landmarks.

Plus the Master word is impaled in Ganon's head, so unless he transformed into a plinth and warped into the new Lost Woods, then they'd have a bit of trouble aquirring the Sword of Evil's Bane.

christina · 06-03-2003, 04:14 PM

^^ I don't understand how the Link from LA and LA Deluxe are two different Links. I mean there's not ebnough difference between the two games to support such a theory. Care to explain?

[ June 03, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

christina · 06-03-2003, 04:14 PM

^^ I don't understand how the Link from LA and LA Deluxe are two different Links. I mean there's not ebnough difference between the two games to support such a theory. Care to explain?

[ June 03, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

christina · 06-03-2003, 04:20 PM

Okay, first off. LttP does mention that great cataclysms took place prior to LttP. A great flood is considered a cataclysm is it not? Infact, I think a flood explains how Hyryrule changed so drastcally over the years but yet retain some of it's major landmarks like Spectacle Rock for example.

Secondly I never said LttP took place in a different land.

Thirdly, have you ever heard the story about the Parting of the Red Sea. Same thing could have been done here. By a certian powerful wizard... of course that's just wild speculation.

[ June 03, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

christina · 06-03-2003, 04:20 PM

Okay, first off. LttP does mention that great cataclysms took place prior to LttP. A great flood is considered a cataclysm is it not? Infact, I think a flood explains how Hyryrule changed so drastcally over the years but yet retain some of it's major landmarks like Spectacle Rock for example.

Secondly I never said LttP took place in a different land.

Thirdly, have you ever heard the story about the Parting of the Red Sea. Same thing could have been done here. By a certian powerful wizard... of course that's just wild speculation.

[ June 03, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

The Minish Link · 06-03-2003, 07:18 PM

I really don't like the double timeline theory, much for the same reason why I don't like the Matrix in a Matrix theory from The Matrix Reloaded. Simple answer: it's a cheap way to explain things. If you're going to go to the challenge of piecing the games together, at least be a true Zelda fan and do it the right way. ^_~

"There are some who call me... Link?"

"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Mad Gamers
ザ行方不明リンク

The Minish Link · 06-03-2003, 07:18 PM

I really don't like the double timeline theory, much for the same reason why I don't like the Matrix in a Matrix theory from The Matrix Reloaded. Simple answer: it's a cheap way to explain things. If you're going to go to the challenge of piecing the games together, at least be a true Zelda fan and do it the right way. ^_~

"There are some who call me... Link?"

"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Mad Gamers
ザ行方不明リンク

christina · 06-03-2003, 07:37 PM

I agree with you entirely TML! Wait! Hold on! MJ actually agreeing with TML? That's a first!

DTT was first suggested by Shigeru. He never really explained it fully explained the mechanics of it though. Mostly, I think, because Nintendo doidn't want him to reveal to much about the game. Perhaps he'll shed some light later on down thhe road. But as I recall, Shigeru also said WW comes before all the other games, not just on a separate fork in time like everyone else seems to be suggesting.

[ June 05, 2003, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

christina · 06-03-2003, 07:37 PM

I agree with you entirely TML! Wait! Hold on! MJ actually agreeing with TML? That's a first!

DTT was first suggested by Shigeru. He never really explained it fully explained the mechanics of it though. Mostly, I think, because Nintendo doidn't want him to reveal to much about the game. Perhaps he'll shed some light later on down thhe road. But as I recall, Shigeru also said WW comes before all the other games, not just on a separate fork in time like everyone else seems to be suggesting.

[ June 05, 2003, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

Gatekeeper · 06-07-2003, 01:31 AM

I was reading an interview of Miyamoto one day...he said Ocarina of Time had two endings, although you couldn't really see where one ended and the other began unless you were told. He said Wind Waker took place after the first ending. The first, you defeat Ganon, he is sealed in the
Sacred Realm and all is good except he threatens to get out of there someday.

Hyrule is happy, everything is going great. Link talks with Zelda.

The second, Link is sent back to his own time to recover lost time.

The endings are kind of slurred together so I don't understand if Link speaking with Zelda in the sky is part of the first ending or part of the second ending.

But if Link actually STAYED in the time after he defeated Ganon, actually never talking to Zelda in the first place (presuming that him speaking with her is part of the second ending); perhaps he knew he could not stay in Hyrule because he didn't belong or he just had his own reasons, so he left.

Maybe that's when the Triforce of Courage began to split up. And maybe that's when Hyrul flooded because the land no longer had a Hero of Time to save them if the King of Evil ever escaped.
Another point, Link IS NOT the Hero of Time as a child, because what happened never happened at all. Even if he remembered, if no one else did, he could not be the Hero of Time simply because everyone would reject an idea that never was an idea.

And the Deku Scrub was born in Adult Link's time, and unless the Deku Tree dies in Child Link's time (which I doubt, assuming A Link to the Past takes place after Ocarina of Time) it would be impossible for a Deku Tree to be in Wind Waker.

But...I may be wrong (I usually am), or maybe I misread the interview, but I did read it a couple of times. But, I'm basing all my thoughts on what i read.

::scratches head:: so now there are TWO Link's in Ocarina of Time? Hmmmmm...............

Gatekeeper · 06-07-2003, 01:31 AM

I was reading an interview of Miyamoto one day...he said Ocarina of Time had two endings, although you couldn't really see where one ended and the other began unless you were told. He said Wind Waker took place after the first ending. The first, you defeat Ganon, he is sealed in the
Sacred Realm and all is good except he threatens to get out of there someday.

Hyrule is happy, everything is going great. Link talks with Zelda.

The second, Link is sent back to his own time to recover lost time.

The endings are kind of slurred together so I don't understand if Link speaking with Zelda in the sky is part of the first ending or part of the second ending.

But if Link actually STAYED in the time after he defeated Ganon, actually never talking to Zelda in the first place (presuming that him speaking with her is part of the second ending); perhaps he knew he could not stay in Hyrule because he didn't belong or he just had his own reasons, so he left.

Maybe that's when the Triforce of Courage began to split up. And maybe that's when Hyrul flooded because the land no longer had a Hero of Time to save them if the King of Evil ever escaped.
Another point, Link IS NOT the Hero of Time as a child, because what happened never happened at all. Even if he remembered, if no one else did, he could not be the Hero of Time simply because everyone would reject an idea that never was an idea.

And the Deku Scrub was born in Adult Link's time, and unless the Deku Tree dies in Child Link's time (which I doubt, assuming A Link to the Past takes place after Ocarina of Time) it would be impossible for a Deku Tree to be in Wind Waker.

But...I may be wrong (I usually am), or maybe I misread the interview, but I did read it a couple of times. But, I'm basing all my thoughts on what i read.

::scratches head:: so now there are TWO Link's in Ocarina of Time? Hmmmmm...............

christina · 06-07-2003, 02:22 AM

But if Link actually STAYED in the time after he defeated Ganon, actually never talking to Zelda in the first place (presuming that him speaking with her is part of the second ending); perhaps he knew he could not stay in Hyrule because he didn't belong or he just had his own reasons, so he left.

Makes sense. Never thought of it that way. Actually that explains the second part about the breaking of the Triforce of Courage. But I think I remember Link had the Triforce of Courage still when he returned to his child body. How can he take the triforce peice into the past and yet it still exists in the future?

Triforce peice aside, I think it all boils down to exactly what point in the past Link was returned to. Was it before he even pulled out the Master Sword to begin with. Did he go and warn Zelda and the king about Ganondorf's plans to gtake over Hyrule. Was it after Ganondorf left the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of power and began taking over Hyrule, except this time Link was around to stop him, thus creating a second Imprisomning War. Or was it after Link pulled out the Master Sword but before Ganondorf had a chance to leave the Sacred Realm, thus imprisoning Ganondorf in Sacred Realm. Is this the Imprisoning War of LttP? Or does Ganondorf just ceases to exist in this alternate timeline. Link enters the Tremple of Time. Ganondorf enters. Link leaves. Ganondorf is never heard from again.

WW answered a few question but it also created some new ones as well.

[ June 07, 2003, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

christina · 06-07-2003, 02:22 AM

But if Link actually STAYED in the time after he defeated Ganon, actually never talking to Zelda in the first place (presuming that him speaking with her is part of the second ending); perhaps he knew he could not stay in Hyrule because he didn't belong or he just had his own reasons, so he left.

Makes sense. Never thought of it that way. Actually that explains the second part about the breaking of the Triforce of Courage. But I think I remember Link had the Triforce of Courage still when he returned to his child body. How can he take the triforce peice into the past and yet it still exists in the future?

Triforce peice aside, I think it all boils down to exactly what point in the past Link was returned to. Was it before he even pulled out the Master Sword to begin with. Did he go and warn Zelda and the king about Ganondorf's plans to gtake over Hyrule. Was it after Ganondorf left the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of power and began taking over Hyrule, except this time Link was around to stop him, thus creating a second Imprisomning War. Or was it after Link pulled out the Master Sword but before Ganondorf had a chance to leave the Sacred Realm, thus imprisoning Ganondorf in Sacred Realm. Is this the Imprisoning War of LttP? Or does Ganondorf just ceases to exist in this alternate timeline. Link enters the Tremple of Time. Ganondorf enters. Link leaves. Ganondorf is never heard from again.

WW answered a few question but it also created some new ones as well.

[ June 07, 2003, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

Legion · 06-07-2003, 04:14 AM

Well, remember that the Triforce split as soon as Ganondorf touched it? If Link replaced the Master sword before Ganon could leave, the Triforce has still split, and thus the Triforce of Courage is still in Child Link.

Legion · 06-07-2003, 04:14 AM

Well, remember that the Triforce split as soon as Ganondorf touched it? If Link replaced the Master sword before Ganon could leave, the Triforce has still split, and thus the Triforce of Courage is still in Child Link.

Koga · 06-07-2003, 06:55 AM

Maybe adult Link from OoT also went on a quest that made him leave Hyrule and therefore lose the Triforce of Courage. So in one timeline he loses it because he goes to Termina in another he does so, because hetravles to some land we don't know (yet?).

I think it would be cool if the Wind Waker sequel explained what happened between OoT and WW. I think it's safe to assume that it will not be about the Triforce and/or in another land than Hyrule. I don't thikn there have been two Zeldas in the same style that both took place in Hyrule and dealt with the Triforce (OoT&MM, LttP&LA, LoZ&AoL; not sure about that last one since I never beat AoL).

Koga · 06-07-2003, 06:55 AM

Maybe adult Link from OoT also went on a quest that made him leave Hyrule and therefore lose the Triforce of Courage. So in one timeline he loses it because he goes to Termina in another he does so, because hetravles to some land we don't know (yet?).

I think it would be cool if the Wind Waker sequel explained what happened between OoT and WW. I think it's safe to assume that it will not be about the Triforce and/or in another land than Hyrule. I don't thikn there have been two Zeldas in the same style that both took place in Hyrule and dealt with the Triforce (OoT&MM, LttP&LA, LoZ&AoL; not sure about that last one since I never beat AoL).

06-03-2003, 04:04 PM	#21
imported_jigglypuffer Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 128.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 128.00 Donate	I think like this: First Link: OoT. MM. LttP. LAw. OoS. OoA. Second Link: LoZ. Third Link: LAd. Forth Link: WW. WW2. I think that the second and third Links quests was not mentioned in the legend of WW. And the other land adventures were the first Link stumbling upon dimensional warps (which Tingle used to get from Termina to the Great Sea) and a dream he had out on the sea. And that Deku Tree problem... in the ending of OoT, you see Link meet Zelda again. That was before Link was frozen in time to travel seven years, perhaps the Deku Tree never got a curse and Link just sneaked out of the Lost Woods and went to the Hyrule Castle without anyone telling him to. Or the Deku Trees soul just flew away and mystically produced a sprout for himself to be revived on a high mountaintop of Hyrule. But still I can´t explain how the legend in WW was about something that were turned to be something that never happened.

06-03-2003, 04:07 PM	#23
Legion Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Greater Mancester, UK Gender: Posts: 1,860 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts Points: 8,426.29 Bank: 6,647.77 Total Points: 15,074.06 Donate	Yeah. I didn't actually read all of your theory when I posted. I only saw the Dark World bit afterwards. Although it may not be that simple. Say LttP comes after WW. Surely, somewhere in the leeds they'd have some mention, even just a passing mention, of a Great Flood, or at least a jourey to a new land. They could have quite easily done that with the LttP for GBA. I mean, they changed the Wise Men to Sages didn't they? Also, if it took place in a different land then why are all the landmarks from previous and later (depending on your view) games in LttP? Surely they couldn't have found a land with every single one of those landmarks. Plus the Master word is impaled in Ganon's head, so unless he transformed into a plinth and warped into the new Lost Woods, then they'd have a bit of trouble aquirring the Sword of Evil's Bane.

06-03-2003, 04:14 PM	#25
christina Newbie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: texas Gender: Posts: 4 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,225.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,725.00 Donate	^^ I don't understand how the Link from LA and LA Deluxe are two different Links. I mean there's not ebnough difference between the two games to support such a theory. Care to explain? [ June 03, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

06-03-2003, 04:20 PM	#27
christina Newbie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: texas Gender: Posts: 4 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,225.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,725.00 Donate	Okay, first off. LttP does mention that great cataclysms took place prior to LttP. A great flood is considered a cataclysm is it not? Infact, I think a flood explains how Hyryrule changed so drastcally over the years but yet retain some of it's major landmarks like Spectacle Rock for example. Secondly I never said LttP took place in a different land. Thirdly, have you ever heard the story about the Parting of the Red Sea. Same thing could have been done here. By a certian powerful wizard... of course that's just wild speculation. [ June 03, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

06-03-2003, 07:18 PM	#29
The Minish Link Zelda Mod Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Hyrule, Ohio, US Posts: 9,761 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 1,135.00 Bank: 0.00 Total Points: 1,135.00 Donate	I really don't like the double timeline theory, much for the same reason why I don't like the Matrix in a Matrix theory from The Matrix Reloaded. Simple answer: it's a cheap way to explain things. If you're going to go to the challenge of piecing the games together, at least be a true Zelda fan and do it the right way. ^_~ "There are some who call me... Link?" "Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!) Zelda: The Grand Adventures \| Mad Gamers ザ行方不明リンク

06-03-2003, 07:37 PM	#31
christina Newbie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: texas Gender: Posts: 4 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,225.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,725.00 Donate	I agree with you entirely TML! Wait! Hold on! MJ actually agreeing with TML? That's a first! DTT was first suggested by Shigeru. He never really explained it fully explained the mechanics of it though. Mostly, I think, because Nintendo doidn't want him to reveal to much about the game. Perhaps he'll shed some light later on down thhe road. But as I recall, Shigeru also said WW comes before all the other games, not just on a separate fork in time like everyone else seems to be suggesting. [ June 05, 2003, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

06-07-2003, 01:31 AM	#33
Gatekeeper Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Gender: Posts: 286 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 1,314.78 Bank: 510.00 Total Points: 1,824.78 Donate	I was reading an interview of Miyamoto one day...he said Ocarina of Time had two endings, although you couldn't really see where one ended and the other began unless you were told. He said Wind Waker took place after the first ending. The first, you defeat Ganon, he is sealed in the Sacred Realm and all is good except he threatens to get out of there someday. Hyrule is happy, everything is going great. Link talks with Zelda. The second, Link is sent back to his own time to recover lost time. The endings are kind of slurred together so I don't understand if Link speaking with Zelda in the sky is part of the first ending or part of the second ending. But if Link actually STAYED in the time after he defeated Ganon, actually never talking to Zelda in the first place (presuming that him speaking with her is part of the second ending); perhaps he knew he could not stay in Hyrule because he didn't belong or he just had his own reasons, so he left. Maybe that's when the Triforce of Courage began to split up. And maybe that's when Hyrul flooded because the land no longer had a Hero of Time to save them if the King of Evil ever escaped. Another point, Link IS NOT the Hero of Time as a child, because what happened never happened at all. Even if he remembered, if no one else did, he could not be the Hero of Time simply because everyone would reject an idea that never was an idea. And the Deku Scrub was born in Adult Link's time, and unless the Deku Tree dies in Child Link's time (which I doubt, assuming A Link to the Past takes place after Ocarina of Time) it would be impossible for a Deku Tree to be in Wind Waker. But...I may be wrong (I usually am), or maybe I misread the interview, but I did read it a couple of times. But, I'm basing all my thoughts on what i read. ::scratches head:: so now there are TWO Link's in Ocarina of Time? Hmmmmm...............

06-07-2003, 02:22 AM	#35
christina Newbie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: texas Gender: Posts: 4 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Points: 1,225.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,725.00 Donate	But if Link actually STAYED in the time after he defeated Ganon, actually never talking to Zelda in the first place (presuming that him speaking with her is part of the second ending); perhaps he knew he could not stay in Hyrule because he didn't belong or he just had his own reasons, so he left. Makes sense. Never thought of it that way. Actually that explains the second part about the breaking of the Triforce of Courage. But I think I remember Link had the Triforce of Courage still when he returned to his child body. How can he take the triforce peice into the past and yet it still exists in the future? Triforce peice aside, I think it all boils down to exactly what point in the past Link was returned to. Was it before he even pulled out the Master Sword to begin with. Did he go and warn Zelda and the king about Ganondorf's plans to gtake over Hyrule. Was it after Ganondorf left the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of power and began taking over Hyrule, except this time Link was around to stop him, thus creating a second Imprisomning War. Or was it after Link pulled out the Master Sword but before Ganondorf had a chance to leave the Sacred Realm, thus imprisoning Ganondorf in Sacred Realm. Is this the Imprisoning War of LttP? Or does Ganondorf just ceases to exist in this alternate timeline. Link enters the Tremple of Time. Ganondorf enters. Link leaves. Ganondorf is never heard from again. WW answered a few question but it also created some new ones as well. [ June 07, 2003, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: Pedro, the Wind Demon ]

06-07-2003, 04:14 AM	#37
Legion Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Greater Mancester, UK Gender: Posts: 1,860 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 11 Posts Points: 8,426.29 Bank: 6,647.77 Total Points: 15,074.06 Donate	Well, remember that the Triforce split as soon as Ganondorf touched it? If Link replaced the Master sword before Ganon could leave, the Triforce has still split, and thus the Triforce of Courage is still in Child Link.

06-07-2003, 06:55 AM	#39
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,095 Thanks: 104 Thanked 186 Times in 117 Posts Points: 109,264.07 Bank: 25,861.92 Total Points: 135,125.99 Donate	Maybe adult Link from OoT also went on a quest that made him leave Hyrule and therefore lose the Triforce of Courage. So in one timeline he loses it because he goes to Termina in another he does so, because hetravles to some land we don't know (yet?). I think it would be cool if the Wind Waker sequel explained what happened between OoT and WW. I think it's safe to assume that it will not be about the Triforce and/or in another land than Hyrule. I don't thikn there have been two Zeldas in the same style that both took place in Hyrule and dealt with the Triforce (OoT&MM, LttP&LA, LoZ&AoL; not sure about that last one since I never beat AoL).