Zelda Mini Mafia 3: MAFIA WINS

[Margarie Margarita]

ian: TML also voted for RF, just as an FYI.

As for my vote: I'll consider voting after work tonight. There just isn't enough damning evidence for me to vote yet. I realize that there may not be any more evidence--in which case, I'll have to make a choice.

[The Joker]

^ I'm with Starry Peach

I'm not really convinced by the evidence you’re using to vote Rayman freak because I think his answers to your questions seem legit. But with no one else under the microscope I guess our options are a bit narrowed.

I did notice going over the posts from day 1 and 2 that both TML and Mikhail were on to something with their suspicions of Wyborn. If you actually look back and read what happened there, Wy’s actions seem to me far more scummy than those of RF. I also noticed how Mikhail got a bit under Wy’s skin when he agreed with TML’s assessment of him.

I don’t recall seeing Wyborn act this way during his last turn as a townie in the previous Zelda Mafia game. So I’m still curious about Daos, now that he has replaced him.

FoS: Rayman Freak & Daos

[The Missing Link]

So I've given all of this a fair bit of thought.

S1x, your argument makes a lot of sense, but I'm going to stand by my point that, if ZeldaGirl knew the identity of any Townie player, she wouldn't be allowed to come back regardless of the alignment of her role. I cannot possibly vote for Mushi Mo strictly on that evidence, and the same would go for tomorrow.

Mushi Mo, I'd like for you to be more talkative. You've barely been in this game enough to consider you clinically alive, and the fact that most of this time was when you were a (now confirmed) Townie disturbs me. We could use as many heads in this game, and the last thing we want to do is start eyeing you suspiciously just because you're being quiet.

Deku Trii, Wyborn's leaving of the game did manage to throw me way off the track of him, especially because I was very suspicious of him early on. I know Wyborn wouldn't use a cheap tactic to get votes off of him, and I (accidentally) used that metagaming characteristic to convince myself he wouldn't make some bad arguments and jump out of the game to save himself.

Daos, saying that you agree with me but don't want to stand up in defence disturbs me greatly. While I sympathise with you in not being able to share your role at this time (half because I think our doctor might already be dead, though I cannot tell for sure), there's a strong case against Wyborn that you inherited... and as was the case with Blake, which I'm fairly certain of at this point was anti-Town, if the bandwagon does go against you, you need to make sure the same doesn't happen to you. So riddle me this: In your old role, had a bandwagon come up against Wyborn, would you have voted for him... and why?

FoS: Daos

Rayman Freak, you answered my questions, this is true. It placated most of my concerns; the only one that remains is how foolish it would've been to miss Blake's silence and broken promises. This is the mistake that Tazy Ten made in ZM2, and your only answer is that "you're not as observant as me" and "I only had the chance to skim the topic before deciding," both of which were excuses that Tazy Ten, sad to say, made on Day Four.

That said, here's what I'm going to do.

Unvote: Rayman Freak
Vote: Daos
FoS: Rayman Freak (to be carried over to tomorrow, most likely)

This may seem like I'm dividing the vote, but most assuredly, I will flip-flop back depending upon which of these bandwagons take it the rest of the way. I'm halfway convinced that these both are Mafia... and I think we need to vote one of them today in the dwindling hours.

We're close to a day left. Time isn't our friend. Let's put votes to the one we believe in. We can hold of hammering (not that we're close to that yet) for a little while longer, but we at least need to get something on the scoreboard. If you *haven't* voted, vote now or give me a damn good reason why you shouldn't. And if your reason is that you're still pondering about it, if we abstain because you forget to vote, TML isn't gonna be a happy person.

Daos, Rayman, one more question for both of you: Objectively speaking, which of you seems like the more suspicious player?

[Dr. Horrible]

Pressed to vote right now, I'd go with
Vote: Daos

Keeping my FoS on RF, since he's pretty easily my number 2 suspect. There's a sort of 4 way tie for next on my list between Joker, SP, Mushi, and Mikhail, but those are all fairly weak guesses.

[The Joker]

^

* Scratches head*

^ How can that be truly objective? So far TML you’ve been spot on with your questions. Each time that you’ve brought something up or requested a specific answer from some one it has served a helpful purpose. This last question though seems like your just asking a question just to be asking it. I agree that we are running out of time and that one of these two could strongly be mafia, but I think having them out argue each other is only going to stretch this whole thing out.

Each player is clearly not going to choose themselves, in which case you are in essence just asking them to try and find some thing to accuse the other of.

You could have just as easily asked “Explain to me why we shouldn’t vote for you”.
That seems to work on a better principle than asking them to objectively think of who is the more suspicious between the two of them.

For my part, I’m wearier of Daos right now. Not just because he took over Wyborns role, but because of his willingness to commit to a vote despite not being entirely sure of the facts.

Originally Posted by Rayman FREAK

Apologies for the inactivity. My free time has been taken up by playing outside.

You're all so sure there can't be a burnt status effect? If the mafia were going to use (or claim to use) a status effect on one of their own, why would they risk making something up and having precisely this kind of thing happen? I can't get past that, so I can't say I think Blake is mafia.

Its one thing to not cast a vote for some one because you’re unsure if they are really mafia or not (RF in the case of Blake).

Originally Posted by Daos

I can't say what my role (previously Wyborn's) is at this moment. I'm still not sure about RF either but it's better then nothing at the moment.
Vote: RF

It is another thing entirely, to just throw a vote in to the ballot box simply because there is no one else to cast a vote for, especially when you admit that you’re not sure about them being mafia. Your vote seems more like a mafia bandwagon vote that gets cast when a mafia member knows that the person being selected isn’t one of their own. You need very little evidence other than the fact that the person isn’t mafia and that everyone else seems ready to axe them.

Rayman Freak, you are still on a Finger of Suspicion because TML’s point about you not being as observant as him doesn’t sound right. Judging from your replies to his questions, you seem to be very astute at reading things through and arriving at a logical decision. I can’t see some one who gives such a well versed reply, not being able to read the most obvious of signs i.e. Blake’s erratic behavior.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

^^undecided; possibly:
per Joker's point: Daos.
TML's: RF.
S1x's: Mushi.
---
CL: scummy...?
SP/Deku: cloudy.

[The Joker]

---------------------------Double Post--------------------------------

I didn't see Dekutrii had already replied the ^ was meant to be for TML's post not Deku's

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

as my ^^ was a reference to TML urging a vote.

[The Missing Link]

Originally Posted by Joker

(paragraphs I don't feel like quoting)

To answer your question, my question serves a purpose, but the purpose is not to affect today's vote. They're going to defend themselves (or not) without me telling them to, so I don't see the purpose in asking them why I shouldn't vote for either of them.

My question extends into affecting tomorrow... because whichever one we don't vote for today will have to account for his actions today. So my detective work is to elicit some sort of reaction so that tomorrow we can start off the day with a head start.

I mean, did anyone notice how, when I asked Wyborn questions on Days One and Two, he artfully dodged answering every single one of them... this despite the fact that he tipped his hand about how important his role was. He left more unanswered questions than he answered. However, Rayman has answered every question he's asked, and calmly, albeit leaving small holes here and there.

And considering that I may not make it to tomorrow (regardless of what ability they think I have) -- especially if either or both happen to be Mafia members -- I'd like to build up as slam dunk a case as I can before the sun sets for those who do wake tomorrow to pursue the next Mafioso.

[The Joker]

^ some times man...you really suprise me

I didn't think of your question in the context of it setting up a possible early start to a mafia lynch on day 4. It didn’t make sense to me the way you worded it in your previous post. However, I now see what you were getting at and can agree with the line of questioning.

Also, I will be one pissed son of a b**** if you turn out to be some mafia head leader that has us all trusting in you while you play us against each other. (Very unlikely given your effective methods of rooting out mafia) Seriously though ,if that were the case I'd feel dumb.

[The Missing Link]

^ For what it's worth, I'll swear upon the Book of Mudora that I ain't Mafia, yet I realise that only my death or (to a much lesser extent) my role claim will validate that unresolved mystery. However, I swear to you that one of those two will inevitably happen; I just can't say for certain is which one will come first.

Probably my death... XD But of course, I wonder if the Mafia will think it wise to make (or maybe to waste?) a hit on me or not. Choices... choices... Mafia.

"The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead."

[S1x]

Both of these guys have been a yellow light for me... argh. I think I'll act on something that has concerned me since near the start.

Vote: Daos

This goes all the way back to days 1 and 2 when Wyborn was trying to single out things and when he mysteriously supported my points when I was doing weird things. (For the record, in day 1 I was trying to set up traps with ZG going against me and seeing what others would do. After she died, I reverted to my usual style.)

[Microphone_Kirby]

Daos. Rayman FREAK. At least one of you two better roleclaim and FAST.

[I am nobody]

Votes:
Daos: The Missing Link, Deku Trii, S1x (3)
Rayman FREAK: Microphone_Kirby, Daos (2)

There are 13 1/2 hours remaining until sunset.

[The Joker]

I'm going with my gut feeling on this and the fact that RF has already tried to explain his actions.


Daos, I was holding out because I wanted you to say something before time runs out. But since time is short and I don't want to be the last vote, I'm doing it now !


Vote: Daos

[Margarie Margarita]

That's it. I wanted to wait until after work to get my vote in, but I don't think I'll get my vote in on time if I do. So I'll vote now.

Vote: Daos

My reasoning? The same reasons why I FoSed him earlier. (Go find it; I don't have time to post it again) Plus, Daos plays really well when he's mafia (I should know--we played on same sides in another Mafia game). Those really aren't reasons to vote for him, but I just realized something.

When Daos was a townie, he went around not posting much. His second incarnation, he didn't post that much still... but he picked me to FoS. Most of the rest of us suspected RF strongly of being mafia first. Granted, you could FoS multiple people, but the fact that Daos FoSed me first in Day 3 raised a flag for me. If I recall correctly, if he was townie... he might have FoSed RF first.

[Rayman FREAK]

TML, regarding your last question: You mean, between the two of us? How can we be completely objective when our lives are on the line? I'll say that I haven't seen much suspicious behavior from Daos, specifically, but I did have some issues with Wyborn's role-fishing and claiming a "potentially important" role (you may remember my "random day 1 accusation." That wasn't truly as random as I made it out to be). I held off on voicing further suspicions when Daos took over, partly out of fairness to him, and partly because of the mention of this alleged kinstone half. Nobody seemed to think that was a particularly odd item to have, so without knowing much of anything about MC, I inferred that it was potentially legitimate. It seems like Daos has recently done something to upset a number of people, though (forgive my skimming, I didn't want to keep you guys waiting for a post much longer). I'll have to look over whatever it is and see what I make of it.

For a less roundabout answer to your question TML: I'd probably go with myself, honestly. I don't feel like I'm playing much differently than I did the last two games, during both of which I was a mafioso. It's been so long since I've been a townie that I fear I'm doing a poor job of it right now. It's really not at all surprising to me that you're cautious of me right now. Hope this helps?

[Daos]

Okay I was at work all day long. Don't drop the hammer without letting me explain some things.

Originally Posted by The Missing Link

Daos, saying that you agree with me but don't want to stand up in defence disturbs me greatly. While I sympathise with you in not being able to share your role at this time (half because I think our doctor might already be dead, though I cannot tell for sure), there's a strong case against Wyborn that you inherited... and as was the case with Blake, which I'm fairly certain of at this point was anti-Town, if the bandwagon does go against you, you need to make sure the same doesn't happen to you. So riddle me this: In your old role, had a bandwagon come up against Wyborn, would you have voted for him... and why?
because you forget to vote, TML isn't gonna be a happy person.
Daos, Rayman, one more question for both of you: Objectively speaking, which of you seems like the more suspicious player?

Oh I agree that RF looks suspicious. However if there is anything I learned in Round 4 it was that accidents can happen. SD tricked me until near very well the end and I will not make that mistake again. Here is the thing though, I did think Wyborn was suspicious in my old role. I'm not sure why he was playing the way he was now considering he (and now I) is most defintally town. I probably would have lynched him though if I had not known that. I'm not sure what you want as objectively though, RF seems pretty scummy.

Originally Posted by Joker

^
For my part, I’m wearier of Daos right now. Not just because he took over Wyborns role, but because of his willingness to commit to a vote despite not being entirely sure of the facts.



Its one thing to not cast a vote for some one because you’re unsure if they are really mafia or not (RF in the case of Blake).



It is another thing entirely, to just throw a vote in to the ballot box simply because there is no one else to cast a vote for, especially when you admit that you’re not sure about them being mafia. Your vote seems more like a mafia bandwagon vote that gets cast when a mafia member knows that the person being selected isn’t one of their own. You need very little evidence other than the fact that the person isn’t mafia and that everyone else seems ready to axe them.

Rayman Freak, you are still on a Finger of Suspicion because TML’s point about you not being as observant as him doesn’t sound right. Judging from your replies to his questions, you seem to be very astute at reading things through and arriving at a logical decision. I can’t see some one who gives such a well versed reply, not being able to read the most obvious of signs i.e. Blake’s erratic behavior.

RF SEEMS scmmy. Unfortuantly that is all we really have to go on right now.

Originally Posted by S1x

Both of these guys have been a yellow light for me... argh. I think I'll act on something that has concerned me since near the start.

Vote: Daos

This goes all the way back to days 1 and 2 when Wyborn was trying to single out things and when he mysteriously supported my points when I was doing weird things. (For the record, in day 1 I was trying to set up traps with ZG going against me and seeing what others would do. After she died, I reverted to my usual style.)

Like I said, I don't know why Wyborn was acting that way. Of course Kargath also did a lot of fishing when he was town too.

Originally Posted by StarryPeach

That's it. I wanted to wait until after work to get my vote in, but I don't think I'll get my vote in on time if I do. So I'll vote now.

Vote: Daos

My reasoning? The same reasons why I FoSed him earlier. (Go find it; I don't have time to post it again) Plus, Daos plays really well when he's mafia (I should know--we played on same sides in another Mafia game). Those really aren't reasons to vote for him, but I just realized something.

When Daos was a townie, he went around not posting much. His second incarnation, he didn't post that much still... but he picked me to FoS. Most of the rest of us suspected RF strongly of being mafia first. Granted, you could FoS multiple people, but the fact that Daos FoSed me first in Day 3 raised a flag for me. If I recall correctly, if he was townie... he might have FoSed RF first.

Yes, I am a good mafia SP. However most mafia in past games have also posted less in order to try to "fly underneath the radar". I was out of town all last weekend so I didn't have time to go too far back, sorry.

Now I know you don't have to believe me. Yes you can lynch me. You would LOSE one of your most important abilities however. Since it's either the mafia kill/block me or my head on the chopping block...
I am Simon. Having played through MC only once I can't quite remember who that is. I can watch the actions someone takes at night by hypnotism though which is why I am so important.

[Rayman FREAK]

Oh man. This could really bite me in the bum tomorrow, but having just gone over the arguments against Daos and reading his responses, which I found unsatisfactory, I actually think we could be right here.

Vote: Daos

Sorry, but I'm in a gambling mood right now... and I want to live through the day.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

^^^last paragraph's abysmally poor defense. can't even do it justice in 15 words.
^wtf, Jester?