EGM ZELDA PICS SCANNED ZELDA WITH SWORD TOO! (2) - Page 2 - VGF

GRENTLEMEN · 05-07-2005, 04:38 PM

Don't you ****ing lie, Kunx. You hate Zelda games and you want them to die.

Bonnie Longley · 05-07-2005, 04:59 PM

I enjoyed WW. I liked how the game flowed. Sure, it was annoying just sailing across the sea in the first part of the game with nothing to fight...but that's how all zelda games go. LoZ had screens where there were very few or no enemies. OoT had Hyrule Field, which had very few things to fight on. It's insane to expect a game to have hundreds of enemies on the screen all the time.

Anyways, I got off of my point. Some people like WW. Some people think it was sub-par. It's all in what you are looking for in the game. If you're looking for a particular thing, and that thing is not present, then there is no way that you'll be able to fully enjoy the game.

GRENTLEMEN · 05-08-2005, 06:19 PM

For the record, I pretty much consider OoT to be a step down for the series from even WW. And anything Capcom makes is just rehash, or insane.

No one's expecting hundreds of enemies on screen at once. 30, tops. That would be nice.

[ May 08, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

Bonnie Longley · 05-08-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IT CAME FROM BEYOND:

No one's expecting hundreds of enemies on screen at once. 30, tops. That would be nice.

MM had that. So did Wind Waker. Nothing more annoying than having to slash through tons of bats, Chuus, or bubbles.

Koga · 05-09-2005, 07:18 AM

^ I agree.

I can't remember there being 30 enemies on screen in any of the 2D Zelda games anyway.

Also, AI have you played the Oracles? If so why don't you like them? To me they're just as good as Link's Awakening.

Sabrilocke · 05-09-2005, 07:57 AM

I like swords.

[ May 09, 2005, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Lung Butter ]

Galefore · 05-09-2005, 09:23 AM

^ Yes, swords hew down foes with such efficiency. Nay, though, for I hath left the topic and spammethed! Forgiveth me, moderators, and...

Ah, anyway, back on topic. Most Zelda games are loved for the awesome Gameplay. It's never a matter of story or story flow, just a matter of how much fun you're having cutting some random monster to bits as you laugh and make up lame catch phrases from behind your TV (Unless you skip the phrase part...)

The new Zelda seems like it's going to have cool new stuff, including, yes, Zelda with a sword. I'll hate it if it has no story mode, as seeing a story end is part of the accomplishment, but who cares if the game has a lame story. All it needs is something to help it get from dungeon and gameplay area to dungeon and gameplay area. (Yes, story flow. It doesn't have to be the most awesome thing ever but it has to be present.) Wind Waker had an awful way of getting you to a new dungeon (King of Red Lions suddenly looks back: "HEY LINK, YOU IDIOT, GO TO THE FOREST AND TALK TO SOME FREAKIN' TREE. HE GONNA GIVE YOU A STOOOOOOONE." lINK: "Uh... Who cares?")

Anyway, as long as the new game at least let's you know what you're doing at a certain place at a certain time, I'm happy.

GRENTLEMEN · 05-09-2005, 09:32 AM

The oracle games were slapped together on the LA engine. The engine is fun, yeah. But the games had the prospect of being uninteresting, and reusing characters, and doing stupid **** like having kangaroos in them. The things that worked were stolen from other Zelda games. Period. They were more like retarded fan mods.

[ May 09, 2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

Dai Grepher · 05-09-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IT CAME FROM BEYOND:
Defending my side or not, you previously said in the metroid forum that system limitations were inconsequential to effect on story.

TML, if you will please note, I said it has now become a standard of the industry that the story be of very high quality. Here, they were trying. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call LoZ an attempt. I can agree with boo that the freeform exploration was beneficial to the game, but that wasn't even what I refer to in mentioning structure. Hell, I found the destruction of a land which was discovered pretty much a few days ago, that 4 people knew of, to be pretty anticlimactic. Go figure.

I said that the limitations did not affect Metroid's storyline.

Storyline is important. Zelda must have an interesting and profound plot in order to compete with Final Fantasy, and others.

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-09-2005, 12:31 PM

Since when does Final Fantasy have a profound plot?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Koga · 05-09-2005, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IT CAME FROM BEYOND:
The oracle games were slapped together on the LA engine. The engine is fun, yeah. But the games had the prospect of being uninteresting, and reusing characters, and doing stupid **** like having kangaroos in them. The things that worked were stolen from other Zelda games. Period. They were more like retarded fan mods.

I really don't see the big deal about the animals. They weren't that annoying and they don't play a very big part.

I liked it how they referenced to other Zelda games. OoA had a lot of stuff from OoT and MM, while OoS was more like the first one, especially the Dungeon bosses.

I think they had some great additions; the switchhook, the magnetic glove, the seeds, and although the Ages system was similar to the light world/dark world in LttP the Seasons one was pretty original. The only thing I didn't really like was the rings. Still a lot better than the Kinstone fusion in Minish Cap, though.

As for stories, I think Ages has one of the best stories of the Zelda games.

Sabrilocke · 05-09-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaptHayfever:
Since when does Final Fantasy have a profound plot?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

At least they give it some variation.

AI's right about the Oracle games, as far as I'm concerned. They did reuse characters, and did lose their appeal about two seconds in.
I don't know how I managed to finish OoS. T__T
But Koga's right too-- I enjoyed the stories and the Seasons/Time system very much. Hell, even in that one scanlated doujinshi the story was ok.

[ May 09, 2005, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Lung Butter ]

Bonnie Longley · 05-09-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lung Butter:
At least they give it some variation.

Oh yes, a variation of "Oh no, the world is ending due to some bad guy who likes to taunt us, the heros."

Quote:

AI's right about the Oracle games, as far as I'm concerned. They did reuse characters, and did lose their appeal about two seconds in.

Yes, well MM reused characters from OoT, and it was still a good game in it's own right. And besides that, if you want to bring Final Fantasy into it, FF reuses Cid in every game.

Sabrilocke · 05-09-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halan:
Oh yes, a variation of "Oh no, the world is ending due to some bad guy who likes to taunt us, the heros."

Isn't that pretty much what Zelda does?

Ganon> Yarg, kill the king.

Zelda> onoeshelpmelink [img]redface.gif[/img]

[ May 09, 2005, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Lung Butter ]

***CaptHayfever*** · 05-09-2005, 09:32 PM

^Zelda leaves out the stupid taunting.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

The Missing Link · 05-09-2005, 10:02 PM

^ ZING!

If you ask me personally, and you didn't, I think Final Fantasy has this big unbreakable wedge between the player and the main character of the story. I never feel quite connected with that person, whereas in Zelda I also feel a connection with the main character (Link). I have a hard time subscribing this to coincidence as well.

"There are some who call me... Link?"

"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

GRENTLEMEN · 05-10-2005, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
AI's right about the Oracle games, as far as I'm concerned. They did reuse characters, and did lose their appeal about two seconds in.

Yes, well MM reused characters from OoT, and it was still a good game in it's own right. And besides that, if you want to bring Final Fantasy into it, FF reuses Cid in every game. </font>[/quote]HEY, NOW YOU'RE CATCHING ON.

Maybe I'm alone in it, but MM was just ****. And I don't play FF. It's gone downhill since 6, and the battle engine's always been boring as all hell.

Koga · 05-10-2005, 02:04 AM

You're probably alone in that. I've read several times that there are many who prefer MM to OoT, and there are even some who say MM is their favourite Zelda game.

GRENTLEMEN · 05-10-2005, 09:58 AM

There are some that would say all 3D incarnations have been failures in attempt to live up to the solid gameplay and world of LttP, or the action-motivated play of any of the first handful of Zelda games. WW was a step up. OoT was a pathetic first attempt to translate LttP with a new story into a 3 dimensional adventure, as professed by Miyamoto himself. Perhaps with kinder words, but he obviously did not feel strongly for the game in terms of originality. The first generation of 3D systems were like the Atario 2600 of 3D... Incapable of providing a seamless experience.

[ May 10, 2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

Koga · 05-10-2005, 02:47 PM

I think the vast majority of gamers and critics alike think OoT is one of the best games of all time. Not only one of the best Zelda games, but one of the best games overall.

I think most people who played LttP out of context, that is, not when it came out, don't think it's that great. I'm sure it was amazing for its time, and it was good that Nintendo returned to the top-down view after their departure for Zelda II, but in retrospect I don't see what the big deal is. It's a great game, but not nearly as satisfying an experience as the N64 Zeldas were to me.

05-07-2005, 04:38 PM	#21
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,831 Thanks: 449 Thanked 1,133 Times in 618 Posts Points: 4,734.37 Bank: 1,759,285.16 Total Points: 1,764,019.53 Donate	Don't you ****ing lie, Kunx. You hate Zelda games and you want them to die.

05-07-2005, 04:59 PM	#22
Bonnie Longley Banned Join Date: Dec 1969 Posts: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Points: 737.00 Bank: 500.00 Total Points: 1,237.00 Donate	I enjoyed WW. I liked how the game flowed. Sure, it was annoying just sailing across the sea in the first part of the game with nothing to fight...but that's how all zelda games go. LoZ had screens where there were very few or no enemies. OoT had Hyrule Field, which had very few things to fight on. It's insane to expect a game to have hundreds of enemies on the screen all the time. Anyways, I got off of my point. Some people like WW. Some people think it was sub-par. It's all in what you are looking for in the game. If you're looking for a particular thing, and that thing is not present, then there is no way that you'll be able to fully enjoy the game.

05-08-2005, 06:19 PM	#23
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,831 Thanks: 449 Thanked 1,133 Times in 618 Posts Points: 4,734.37 Bank: 1,759,285.16 Total Points: 1,764,019.53 Donate	For the record, I pretty much consider OoT to be a step down for the series from even WW. And anything Capcom makes is just rehash, or insane. No one's expecting hundreds of enemies on screen at once. 30, tops. That would be nice. [ May 08, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

05-09-2005, 07:18 AM	#25
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 104,115.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,867.82 Donate	^ I agree. I can't remember there being 30 enemies on screen in any of the 2D Zelda games anyway. Also, AI have you played the Oracles? If so why don't you like them? To me they're just as good as Link's Awakening.

05-09-2005, 07:57 AM	#26
Sabrilocke Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: behind the toolshed Gender: Posts: 3,936 Thanks: 101 Thanked 41 Times in 18 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Points: 22,813.21 Bank: 45,368.59 Total Points: 68,181.80 Donate	I like swords. [ May 09, 2005, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Lung Butter ]

05-09-2005, 09:23 AM	#27
Galefore Gunjinkeeper Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dry land. Gender: Posts: 5,505 Thanks: 589 Thanked 333 Times in 266 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Points: 2,457.55 Bank: 32,719.21 Total Points: 35,176.75 Donate	^ Yes, swords hew down foes with such efficiency. Nay, though, for I hath left the topic and spammethed! Forgiveth me, moderators, and... Ah, anyway, back on topic. Most Zelda games are loved for the awesome Gameplay. It's never a matter of story or story flow, just a matter of how much fun you're having cutting some random monster to bits as you laugh and make up lame catch phrases from behind your TV (Unless you skip the phrase part...) The new Zelda seems like it's going to have cool new stuff, including, yes, Zelda with a sword. I'll hate it if it has no story mode, as seeing a story end is part of the accomplishment, but who cares if the game has a lame story. All it needs is something to help it get from dungeon and gameplay area to dungeon and gameplay area. (Yes, story flow. It doesn't have to be the most awesome thing ever but it has to be present.) Wind Waker had an awful way of getting you to a new dungeon (King of Red Lions suddenly looks back: "HEY LINK, YOU IDIOT, GO TO THE FOREST AND TALK TO SOME FREAKIN' TREE. HE GONNA GIVE YOU A STOOOOOOONE." lINK: "Uh... Who cares?") Anyway, as long as the new game at least let's you know what you're doing at a certain place at a certain time, I'm happy.

05-09-2005, 09:32 AM	#28
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,831 Thanks: 449 Thanked 1,133 Times in 618 Posts Points: 4,734.37 Bank: 1,759,285.16 Total Points: 1,764,019.53 Donate	The oracle games were slapped together on the LA engine. The engine is fun, yeah. But the games had the prospect of being uninteresting, and reusing characters, and doing stupid **** like having kangaroos in them. The things that worked were stolen from other Zelda games. Period. They were more like retarded fan mods. [ May 09, 2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

05-09-2005, 12:31 PM	#30
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,225 Thanks: 159 Thanked 716 Times in 464 Posts Points: 104,474.02 Bank: 887.92 Total Points: 105,361.95 Donate	Since when does Final Fantasy have a profound plot? And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

05-09-2005, 09:32 PM	#35
*CaptHayfever* Smash Supermod Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: (n) - the place where I am Gender: Posts: 19,225 Thanks: 159 Thanked 716 Times in 464 Posts Points: 104,474.02 Bank: 887.92 Total Points: 105,361.95 Donate	^Zelda leaves out the stupid taunting. And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

05-09-2005, 10:02 PM	#36
The Missing Link Professional Lurker Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Hyrule, Washington, US Gender: Posts: 15,573 Thanks: 80 Thanked 183 Times in 110 Posts Points: 6,310.15 Bank: 54,243.76 Total Points: 60,553.91 Donate	^ ZING! If you ask me personally, and you didn't, I think Final Fantasy has this big unbreakable wedge between the player and the main character of the story. I never feel quite connected with that person, whereas in Zelda I also feel a connection with the main character (Link). I have a hard time subscribing this to coincidence as well. "There are some who call me... Link?" "Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!) Zelda: The Grand Adventures \| Triforce MUCK ザ行方不明リンク悪いユウモアの賢人

05-10-2005, 02:04 AM	#38
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 104,115.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,867.82 Donate	You're probably alone in that. I've read several times that there are many who prefer MM to OoT, and there are even some who say MM is their favourite Zelda game.

05-10-2005, 09:58 AM	#39
GRENTLEMEN Retro Nintendo Supermod Art & Literature Mod Metroid Mod Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 15,831 Thanks: 449 Thanked 1,133 Times in 618 Posts Points: 4,734.37 Bank: 1,759,285.16 Total Points: 1,764,019.53 Donate	There are some that would say all 3D incarnations have been failures in attempt to live up to the solid gameplay and world of LttP, or the action-motivated play of any of the first handful of Zelda games. WW was a step up. OoT was a pathetic first attempt to translate LttP with a new story into a 3 dimensional adventure, as professed by Miyamoto himself. Perhaps with kinder words, but he obviously did not feel strongly for the game in terms of originality. The first generation of 3D systems were like the Atario 2600 of 3D... Incapable of providing a seamless experience. [ May 10, 2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

05-10-2005, 02:47 PM	#40
Koga Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Posts: 17,093 Thanks: 104 Thanked 177 Times in 119 Posts Points: 104,115.41 Bank: 17,752.41 Total Points: 121,867.82 Donate	I think the vast majority of gamers and critics alike think OoT is one of the best games of all time. Not only one of the best Zelda games, but one of the best games overall. I think most people who played LttP out of context, that is, not when it came out, don't think it's that great. I'm sure it was amazing for its time, and it was good that Nintendo returned to the top-down view after their departure for Zelda II, but in retrospect I don't see what the big deal is. It's a great game, but not nearly as satisfying an experience as the N64 Zeldas were to me.