EGM ZELDA PICS SCANNED ZELDA WITH SWORD TOO! (2)

[CaptHayfever]

^^On a similar note, The Matrix is the worst movie of that trilogy, not counting the other two movies.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Viceroy Nute Gunray]

Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
Out of each Zelda game, I would have to say that A Link to the Past was the worst, not counting the Oracles, the GBA games, and Wind Waker.

So then how can you say it's the worst if you excluded half of the games?

[Kargath]

Originally posted by The Missing Link:
^^^^ Heaven Smile, like it or not, Zelda has elements from the RPG genre. Sure, Zelda is in a genre to itself with nothing quite like it; however, one easily can compare the RPG attributes of Zelda to its counterparts in Final Fantasy and get away with it safely. Sure there may be influence from another genre in Zelda whenever you do such a cross-section, but that just highlights the differences between the two games; the common attributes are inevitably comparable. [img]smile.gif[/img]

First, the name's Kargath. Don't forget it [img]smile.gif[/img]

Secondly, I really can't see any RPG elements in Zelda at all. Yes, there are characters with pointy ears, but that's about it. There's no leveling up, no menus of spells or actions, no classes ... hell there isn't even a party (except the one at the end of the credits )!
What elements are you refferring to here?

[The Missing Link]

^ Let's see:

- The emphasis upon a storyline that tends to parallel that of other RPGs.
- The connection one builds with the main character since, indeed, the player is roleplaying as the main character, as with other RPGs.
- The similarity in genre and setting between Zelda and other RPGs.
- The fact that Link does indeed get more powerful as the game goes on--even if not in level but in ability, magic, weaponry, and health, just as other RPGs.

Break it down as to what "roleplaying game" really means--a game where you roleplay. Even Wikipedia alleges that Zelda, even though it does away with visible statistics and levelling traditionally associated with RPGs, is an RPG in merit due to the similarities in the core purpose of the game--plot. (It even says a lot of FPS games could be considered to be RPGs, but I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader.)

Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
Zelda 1 set moods better than Zelda 3

"Eastmost peninsula is secret."


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[ May 12, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: The Missing Link ]

[Brooser]

While LTTP was a good game in its own respects, I just liked OOT better. It was just more memorable. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up playing LTTP, I don't know. It just seemed easier to relate to the characters and areas in OOT when you could see all around you, rather than just a bird's eye view of things. But really, everyone's going to have their own opinions about things, so what's the point of arguing which game people should like more? Just let it be. Every Zelda game has its own strong points.

[DELICIOUS POISON]

Originally posted by The Missing Link:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dai Grepher:
Zelda 1 set moods better than Zelda 3

"Eastmost peninsula is secret."
</font>[/quote]Dodongo dislike smoke.

Originally posted by Brooser:
Every Zelda game has its own strong points.

Says the man who never played Wand of Gamelon.



[ May 13, 2005, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

[DELICIOUS POISON]

omg delete me

[CaptHayfever]

Knux, I already said that, just more subtlely.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Dai Grepher]

Originally posted by Knuckles173:
So then how can you say it's the worst if you excluded half of the games?

Dai Grepher: I am saying that it is the worst out of all the other Zelda games, aside from the newer generation games. I was narrowing the category down to just the first six Zelda games, not counting the CD-I games of course.

I consider everything after those to be in their own category of poor quality Zelda games.

Also, CaptHayfever, if you take one movie in a trilogy and eliminate the other two from applying to a judgment, then the one left will be the best and worst. So I don't know why you even said that.

[ May 13, 2005, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Dai Grepher ]

[Koga]

First, how on earth could you confuse CaptainHayfever and SuperLuigi64. They're names don't look anything like each other.

Secondly, he was being sarcastic.

[Booyakasha]

Originally posted by The Missing Link:
- The emphasis upon a storyline that tends to parallel that of other RPGs.
- The connection one builds with the main character since, indeed, the player is roleplaying as the main character, as with other RPGs.
- The similarity in genre and setting between Zelda and other RPGs.
- The fact that Link does indeed get more powerful as the game goes on--even if not in level but in ability, magic, weaponry, and health, just as other RPGs.

Feh. TML sees a sheep that quacks like a duck, and automatically assumes it flies south for the winter.

First of all, similarity in genre and setting isn't an earmark of an RPG. Games like 'Earthbound', 'Harvest Moon', and 'Pokemon', among others, have little enough in common setting-wise with your bog-standard swords-'n'-sorcery RPG, yet they are still RPGs; similarly, plenty of games with a swords-'n'-sorcery setting (the original Warcraft titles, 'Lord of the Rings' and 'Elemental Gearbolt' (a game frequently lumped in with RPGs because of its swords-'n'-sorcery setting, despite it being a friggin' light-gun shooter) are not RPGs at all.

Secondly, a great many games have some RPG-like features, yet are clearly not RPGs at all. For instance, 'Dynasty Warriors' and 'River City Ransom' both involve levelling up, experience points, skill purchasing, weapon improvement, and attribute-enhancing items (all of which are frequently used in RPGs); yet, due to obvious gameplay differences, nobody would mistake either one for an RPG. (Maybe it's the level of violence--you don't rack up a thousand kills in an RPG battle, no matter how long and boring; likewise, the RPG that features your character, a street thug, beating countless rival gang members to death with an iron bar is a rare sight indeed.)

Finally, the whole 'role-playing as that character' argument smacks of inanity. The vast majority of non-sports-related games involve the player following one character through his adventures, experiencing his life-changing events through boring cut-scenes. Yes, 'Zelda' is a particularly pure example of the breed in that it disallows Link speech, thus allowing us to project our own interpretation of Link's character onto the hero (well, allowing you to, anyway; if I projected anything, it would be "clumsy sociopathic imbecile with an obsessive-compulsive desire to cut grass and smash crates and pots"). But, really, most games do the same; the only genres that regularly insist we know what's on the characters' minds are platformers starring animals WITH ATTITUDE (i.e. Sonic, Crash, Spyro, Banjo, and others), and Capcom/SNK fighters, whose cutscenes reveal the deep philosophical bent of the fighters by way of short, pose-heavy Engrish asides to the audience (a device more common in Shakespearean drama than video gaming). Otherwise, games whose main characters have an obvious personality aren't really all that common.

And, on the other side of the equation, we have RPGs where the 'role-playing' thing is virtually non-existant, thanks to lack of cutscenes involving the characters/generic characters, or a 'cast of thousands' (examples of the former are many and varied, but include the early 'Final Fantasy', 'Dragon Warriors', and 'Phantasy Star' titles; the latter is well-represented by series like 'Suikoden', and particularly by tactics-RPGs like 'Ogre Battle' and 'Advance Wars').

It almost goes without saying that my argument is irrefutable (I'll buy that for a dollar), but I look forward to your response anyway.

[DELICIOUS POISON]

Zelda is really a hybrid, to me.



[ May 13, 2005, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: IT CAME FROM BEYOND ]

[Viceroy Nute Gunray]

Originally posted by CaptHayfever:
Knux, I already said that, just more subtlely.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

I know that.

[The Missing Link]

Originally posted by Cap'n Boo from Timbuktu:
Feh. TML sees a sheep that quacks like a duck, and automatically assumes it flies south for the winter.

The problem is that we're not talking about sheeps and ducks. There's really not a game quite like Zelda out there; even Dark Cloud, the Sony-side response to Zelda isn't like Zelda at all. It's quite different.

Zelda, as AI so eloquently pointed out (and was my garbled point), isn't strictly an RPG, but that doesn't mean that it shares nothing with an RPG whatsoever. I've not said Zelda is an RPG but can be like an RPG. It's also a puzzle game without being a "puzzle game," an adventure game without being an adventure game... it's really not any specific one genre (and if it is, it'd be one of the few with just one game in it ). It's more like a mixture of several genres smashed into one, and to be quite honest, games like that actually tend to make very strong games because they're quite unique and aren't otherwise replicated.

Zelda's more of a goose/sheep mix. It may not fly down south for the winter, but that doesn't mean it can't fly with the best of them.


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[Booyakasha]

Originally posted by The Missing Link:
There's really not a game quite like Zelda out there; even Dark Cloud, the Sony-side response to Zelda isn't like Zelda at all. It's quite different.

Well, sure, to 'Dark Cloud' Zelda is different, maybe; but look at other games. 'Mystical Ninja 64' is pretty damned close to the 3D Zelda games; as for the top-down 2D model, compare to something like 'Blood Omen'. (I'm not trying to tear down the series, you understand, and I acknowledge its unique groove; I'm just saying it's not unapproachably different.)

I've not said Zelda is an RPG but can be like an RPG.

And I'm just saying that the ways in which you suggest Zelda is like an RPG are common to a great many games that aren't RPGs at all--in a sense, calling Zelda 'RPG-like' just makes the term meaningless.

If Zelda doesn't fit into a genre, it makes more sense to give it a new genre than call it a blend of old ones. Back when 'Twisted Metal' reared its ever-increasingly-ugly head, there wasn't any such thing as the 'vehicular combat' genre, but sequels and similar titles eventually made the distinction necessary. Similarly, it may behoove us to think of Zelda as the trailblazer in a new genre, which bears, yes, some similarities to others, but is distinctive enough to merit the differentiation. In this genre would go the Zelda series and its bastard children--games like 'Dew Prism', 'Mystical Ninja 64', 'Brave Fencer Musashiden', and the 'Legacy of Kain' series, among others.

[ May 13, 2005, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Cap'n Boo from Timbuktu ]

[The Missing Link]

^ That's always a good possibility, Boo. Of course, to go around claiming that we've hit upon an entirely new genre (despite that it started several years ago) isn't exactly an "easy" thing to admit because, well... it is a lot to suggest that we've come up with something that nothing else has. For some reason, it's always easier to apply some other label to something than to admit that it's something virtually unique without a lot of exploration to its name.


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[Koga]

'Ogre Battle'

That reminds me of a topic I wante to create.

[Terrapin-Knight]

On a more on-topic note, the subtitle for the new game is apparently "Twightlight Princess."

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7739

Speculate away as to what this, in combination with her artwork, means in terms of Zelda's role in the new game.

[The Missing Link]

The name isn't confirmed, but I reckon we'll be hearing about an official name very soon. However, I think this is sort of a weird thing. Aonuma has been ridiculously secret about just the title of the game, saying that the title would be this major spoiler for what the game is about, and "Twilight Princess" (if indeed the literal translation comes to that) doesn't give us a lot that we'd expect not to know...


"There are some who call me... Link?"
"Carpe Gaium Domesticum!" (Seize the Cucco!)
Zelda: The Grand Adventures | Triforce MUCK
ザ行方不明リンク
悪いユウモアの賢人

[ahuambachano]

Originally posted by Thunder10:
Screw you, WW was a great game, I bet you havent even played it!

Ooooh, shaddup!

Originally posted by Terrapin Knight:
On a more on-topic note, the subtitle for the new game is apparently "Twightlight Princess."

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7739

Speculate away as to what this, in combination with her artwork, means in terms of Zelda's role in the new game.

You're entering... The Zelda Zone!