Does anyone here also go to ZeldaUniverse.Net?

[JaredThaJa888]

I've been a member there for a few years now, and have posted there on and off.

I've liked much of it, but other times they can be very pretentious and irrational reactionary on some points.

Apparently your not allowed to question the Split Timeline theory there now.

[Glux]

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!

[Cosmonautical]

Not to the forum, at least. I've been a semi-active member of Zelda Legends/Legends Alliance for a short period, but they were equally closed-minded to the point that my observing that discrepancies between OoT, TP, and LttP didn't support a direct timeline transition from the prior through the former was ironically attacked for being closed-minded.

They claimed that it was "accepted fact" that TP was a blatant direct sequel to OoT, and apparently believed it was impossible that the minor similarities in some environments were referential in homage to OoT. Seems obvious that, had the developers intended on making a direct sequel, they weren't morons and were entirely capable of making a new game that didn't contradict the one prior to it or the one supposedly coming after, should they have wanted to. Apparently not.

It was also populated with a few individuals who felt it was necessary to argue that it was impossible for a fantasy game to have established a more advanced metallurgy earlier on than had taken place in our history. That's not dissimilar to VGF, at least, in that people demand fiction be derived directly from nonfiction. I'll never understand that one.

[JaredThaJa888]

The Issue I'm having is that to me it's obvious the killing of the Water sage in TP is to set the stage for the Flood.

But ti seems all Zelda fans have no accepted the Split Timeline BS and are convinced TP and TWW can't be in the same timeline.

[Cosmonautical]

Ehhh, I don't see him as a water sage.

Part of the problem with the continuity of OoT to TP is the immense difference in the sages. In OoT they're all various races, apparently those of whom hand down sage responsibilities through generations. In TP, they're all the same race, but nothing recognizable from any of the other games. Because of TP's realistic approach to visual elements, we are for starters not capable of saying it is likely that their appearance is open to interpretation. They have pointed ears similar to Hylians/Hyruleans, but their faces are mask-like and detached from their heads. Their hands are also disembodied. There is no logical reason to conclude that these sages represent the same positions of the sages in Ocarina, WW, or even LttP - indeed, they are likely sages of the light spirits, rather than the sages who represent the elements.

Considering that Miyamoto himself at least once declared the games to have a split timeline, I don't see how it would be even remotely logical to contradict him. TP seems more inclined to hint at ties to Ocarina than connections to WW, realistically, although it does so in a haphazard fashion. One of the focal points contradicting between two games is a location element: not that the areas on the map have moved, which could be chalked up to design issues, but that the temple of time alone has moved from the still-existing Castle city to the Lost Woods, which was opposite the span of Hyrule of the temple in Ocarina. It also no longer houses a gateway to the Sacred Realm, and the Triforce is entirely absent from Ganon's evil intentions for the first time in any of the Zelda series.

[Glux]

Originally Posted by JaredThaJa888

The Issue I'm having is that to me it's obvious the killing of the Water sage in TP is to set the stage for the Flood.

But ti seems all Zelda fans have no accepted the Split Timeline BS and are convinced TP and TWW can't be in the same timeline.

I don't deal with Timeline ****.
I go with what makes sense.
And your Flood theory makes sense to me.

[JaredThaJa888]

Actually we don't see the Sage's Races in TP, their hidden under ALTTP style robes, they are the sages of OoT, and the Water Sage was killed by Ganondorf.

[Bomby]

Used to. Spent most of my time posting on the non-Zelda related forums.

[Jere]

I love the confusion about this game, Dis Continuity is in there allright.

What is Dis Continuty you might ask, well:
Amongst fans, Discontinuity is the act of mentally writing out certain events in a show's continuity which don't sit well, no matter if it's a single episode, a season-length arc, or even an entire series. If a plot or ending rubs one the wrong way severely enough, fandom can just decide that the offending events never happened. On the series level, events may fall under Discontinuity because the show is perceived to suck at that point. Events also get "discontinued" for particularly screwing up the characters or setting, and a show that starts to suck will end up screwing things up eventually anyway.

In effect, the opposite of fanon. (And not unrelated, either — much Discontinuity has resulted from violations of fanon.) While extremely negative audience reactions may lead to an offending storyline being officially removed from canon in response, Discontinuity specifically refers to when fans disregard a storyline regardless of the creators' opinion on it.

For questionable elements ignored or written out of canon by the creators themselves, see Canon Discontinuity, or at the very least, a Discontinuity Nod. If, on the other hand, the controversial element is somehow reworked into being tolerable or even popular, it's been Rescued From The Scrappy Heap.

It should be noted that this can be justified in cases of Running The Asylum, as it's clear the people in charge are largely trying to impose their own fanon.

Sometimes discontinuity comes from not liking a very specific element while still enjoying everything else. When this happens, you've applied Broad Strokes to the canon. Not to be confused with Negative Continuity.

This is a very subjective trope, more based on the fandom than the event itself.

The visceral response to Discontinuity can baffle other fans who don't take the event as seriously, or even *gasp* like the event.

Thank you TvTropes.

[The Missing Link]

As of yesterday, technically I go to Zelda Universe.

You might recognise me by my article on the front page titled, "Linearism Is Alive and Well."

I've been amused to see all the reactions to it...

However, AI, your experience is very similar to mine. ZL/LA pretty much shoved me out of their forum because I was too timeline-agnostic for their tastes. I questioned way too much, and so I started sniping back at them using my contacts in order to spread my articles to the websites directly. Heh heh... The forums haven't reacted too much to my recent article though; there's been some heavy dissent... but a lot of people (don't know if they're timeliners) commented positively to the article itself.

Incidentally, AI, I actually mentioned the Temple of Time issue in OoT/TP in my article there.

[Bomby]

I've always thought the timeline was very clear:

LoZ, AoL, LttP, LA, OoT, MM, OoS & OoA, TWW, TMC, TP, PH, ST...

Wocka, wocka!

[JaredThaJa888]

Originally Posted by The Missing Link

As of yesterday, technically I go to Zelda Universe.

You might recognise me by my article on the front page titled, "Linearism Is Alive and Well."

I've been amused to see all the reactions to it...

However, AI, your experience is very similar to mine. ZL/LA pretty much shoved me out of their forum because I was too timeline-agnostic for their tastes. I questioned way too much, and so I started sniping back at them using my contacts in order to spread my articles to the websites directly. Heh heh... The forums haven't reacted too much to my recent article though; there's been some heavy dissent... but a lot of people (don't know if they're timeliners) commented positively to the article itself.

Incidentally, AI, I actually mentioned the Temple of Time issue in OoT/TP in my article there.

Ah yes, I enjoyed your article, but I had to use a Proxy to read it, there is something with the script that was making my computer freeze.

[Cosmonautical]

Originally Posted by The Missing Link

As of yesterday, technically I go to Zelda Universe.

You might recognise me by my article on the front page titled, "Linearism Is Alive and Well."

I've been amused to see all the reactions to it...

However, AI, your experience is very similar to mine. ZL/LA pretty much shoved me out of their forum because I was too timeline-agnostic for their tastes. I questioned way too much, and so I started sniping back at them using my contacts in order to spread my articles to the websites directly. Heh heh... The forums haven't reacted too much to my recent article though; there's been some heavy dissent... but a lot of people (don't know if they're timeliners) commented positively to the article itself.

Incidentally, AI, I actually mentioned the Temple of Time issue in OoT/TP in my article there.

Well, you certainly touched on the issue of locational relationships, but you didn't directly address the convenient relocation of a single ruined building. I've always been aware that Nintendo hid behind the "trials of time" to insist that the kingdom has weathered changes, at least considering their initial disinterest. Essentially, one cannot make the assumption that the temple simply moved to the forest in a measly one hundred years - temples don't just up and walk away. So then one cannot use the exact same logic to determine that the new location of the ruined temple supports his belief that Twilight branches Ocarina to LttP. Location cannot be simultaneously relevant and irrelevant to plot, it's an immediate contradiction of that fundamental belief. The inconsistencies prove the argument that the timeline is inconsistent and a fallacy, which was my point, and they cannot be used to support the very argument they have blatantly disproven.

I amusingly was chastised at Legends Alliance for being "disrespectful" of someone's opinion, when that opinion was of me. There's a point where civility includes unfriendliness, and we crossed it. Essentially, the mods gave me a warning for defending myself. I thought I might let it slide, but then the same mods apparently had no interest in chastising the folks I had this other argument, about timelines, with. I was disruptive for disagreeing, yet the others tried to insult me based on their faithfulness to a self-contradicting principle. People get ugly when you show them how wrong they are about their fanaticism.

[CaptHayfever]

BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE LINK, YOU NIGHTLIFE-LESS FOOLS! [/mikey]

And remember, "I'm-a he who fights monsters, number one!"

[The Missing Link]

Originally Posted by The Bureau

Well, you certainly touched on the issue of locational relationships, but you didn't directly address the convenient relocation of a single ruined building.

In my memory I had touched upon it (at least considered it), but I took it out at the last minute because my memory of the in-game details was a little fuzzy... and I thought it might open an[other] attack front on the article by someone who'd already come up with a "clever workaround." Zora's Domain is certainly one that can't be argued against, but... well... so it goes.

I amusingly was chastised at Legends Alliance for being "disrespectful" of someone's opinion, when that opinion was of me. There's a point where civility includes unfriendliness, and we crossed it. Essentially, the mods gave me a warning for defending myself. I thought I might let it slide, but then the same mods apparently had no interest in chastising the folks I had this other argument, about timelines, with. I was disruptive for disagreeing, yet the others tried to insult me based on their faithfulness to a self-contradicting principle. People get ugly when you show them how wrong they are about their fanaticism.

That's not identical to the experience I had, but it was very similar. Isn't it funny how the people there had, in essence, created the "Laws of Timelinedynamics" while, at the same time, refused to acknowledge that they had done anything to the kind, that they were merely following the absolute and perfect canon's direction?

I've no problem with people who do timeline for a living. I think it's a fun little "science" to delve into. I only have issues with people who tell me that I "can't" do something -- despite the fact that I have good reason for doing such -- when they themselves do the thing that I can't.

Plus, given my more or less hunch how the game industry works, Nintendo -- while they may have ideas -- really haven't locked this whole timeline thing down yet. It's actually quite obvious from my vantage point. Some people just don't want to acknowledge that, and it's understandable given how much time and effort they've put into it, but... still..........

Originally Posted by JaredThaJa888

Ah yes, I enjoyed your article, but I had to use a Proxy to read it, there is something with the script that was making my computer freeze.

Glad you enjoyed it. I should add that the article is cross-hosted at The Sacred Realm, so if you hadn't read it, you could read it there. I'm not actually going to make any more replies to the article in question (at least there) because I think I've made my views perfectly clear.

[JaredThaJa888]

Cool, I've never been to The Sacred Realm before.

Actually your off on one of your Comments about The Master Sword. Only Link Can remove it from the Pedestal, but ti's history clearly implies other Can move it around once it's out of that, like the people who made it (Whoever they are).

Your right aout the oddness of how TP ends however, great game but I did feel like I wanted more to the ending, in more ways then 1.

Frankly I think Ganondorf just pulled it out of himself and then ran off to start plotting again, and not long after that Link died his take over from TWW back story takes place.

[The Missing Link]

Originally Posted by JaredThaJa888

Actually your off on one of your Comments about The Master Sword. Only Link Can remove it from the Pedestal, but ti's history clearly implies other Can move it around once it's out of that, like the people who made it (Whoever they are).

Well, that much is obvious; the point was rather more than evil isn't allowed to touch it as per the backstory in Ocarina of Time. That said, someone rightly pointed out that Link had the Master Sword in the ending cutscene. Whoops, my bad.

Your right aout the oddness of how TP ends however, great game but I did feel like I wanted more to the ending, in more ways then 1.

The ending of TP basically felt like... "Oh, we need to clean up all the plot threads. Hmmm, what to do?" *sweeps everything under the rug* "There. Done! Ship it!" Because honestly... who dies STANDING UP? And if he didn't die, what the heck did they do with Ganondorf at the end? It just... doesn't... make... sense..........

Frankly I think Ganondorf just pulled it out of himself and then ran off to start plotting again, and not long after that Link died his take over from TWW back story takes place.

For the most part, it's as likely a story as any.

[X-3]

Originally Posted by The Missing Link

Because honestly... who dies STANDING UP?

Ganondorf!
His magical power allows him to stand while being dead.

...Link probably just took the MS out after Ganondorf went all, "graaaaaaaahbleeeeh". I mean, that's the Master Sword, bane of evil. Using it again would be nice.

Maybe they (the people of Hyrule) then burned his corpse afterwards. (there was a laughing smilie here, but putting it after talking about burning people isn't really appropriate)

[Valigarmander]

Originally Posted by The Missing Link

Because honestly... who dies STANDING UP?

Sait� Musashib� Benkei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[JaredThaJa888]

I like my Video Game ending to have scenes of all the characters celebrating I felt a little cheating by TP's ending in that way.