Trying Wind Waker again. - Page 3

heh · 04-16-2010, 04:34 PM

i have adhd and i love the sailing, what the hell is wrong with you people. despite what you may remember, OOT and TP did not have packed overworlds filled with ****. OOT's was at least pretty easy to navigate.

Collecting triforce pieces is certainly not one of the game's strong points, but it still takes less time then the TP intro, and unlike the intro theirs tons of islands with caves and **** on the way so its not like your mindlessly sailing for an hour.

As far as i can tell the number one downfall of WW and MM in the eyes of most people is that they doesn't live up to their OOT/LTTP nostalgia masterpiece (newsflash, neither does OOT or LTTP)

Metal Mario · 04-16-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bats with Hats

As far as i can tell the number one downfall of WW and MM in the eyes of most people is that they doesn't live up to their OOT/LTTP nostalgia masterpiece (newsflash, neither does OOT or LTTP)

Maybe not for you, but I'm still blown right the **** away every time I play A Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time. Two of the best video games ever. The Zelda series has never seen better days, and it probably never will.

Daos · 04-16-2010, 05:58 PM

Ahhhh, TG, how I missed your firey debates. To be honest I am no fan of OoT's overworld either but at least you did not have almost too much area to explore. The Great Sea was mostly just that, sea. Each "square" on the map had a small little island with a cave on it. I mean seriously, if these are the tops of mountains then Hyrule must of had small mountains jutting out of everywhere which I certainly don't remember. What about the "islands" that don't even look natural, ones seemingly made out of blocks.
Add to this when you want to go somewhere on the sea you have to play the stupid song to change the direction of the wind. Try counting how many times you have to play the song next time you play through. I think the number would surprise you.
I by no means hate WW, don't get me wrong. When it comes to the overworld map though it gets really tedious. There is no such thing as a 'bad" Zelda game. However I should not find the overworld boring, ever,

Metal Mario · 04-16-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daos

There is no such thing as a 'bad" Zelda game.

Except on the Phillips CD-i.

Chaos Deviot · 04-16-2010, 07:22 PM

^Not all of them sucked, though. There's many who say it automatically without playing it, so yeah.

Daos · 04-17-2010, 12:23 AM

The CD-i games don't even count, that's general knowledge.

heh · 04-17-2010, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daos

Ahhhh, TG, how I missed your firey debates. To be honest I am no fan of OoT's overworld either but at least you did not have almost too much area to explore. The Great Sea was mostly just that, sea.

Each "square" on the map had a small little island with a cave on it. I mean seriously, if these are the tops of mountains then Hyrule must of had small mountains jutting out of everywhere which I certainly don't remember.

True. the thing here is OOT/TP had smaller fields but they were so boring/sparse they feel less dense with stuff then the ENTIRE OCEAN IN WW. at least oot's is pretty small. TP's had like 5 caves in the overworld total. MAYBE 8. and theres one up on ice mountain and a few in the desert if you count those i guess. Between the islands, the submarines, and skull towers, and the constant enemy attacks, the ocean feels way more packed with stuff then hyrule field despite being like hundreds of times it size. Caves on small unique islands are way better then caves under rocks. none of those caves are little watery grottos with 20 rupees and a gossip stone or cave systems indentical to 5 other caves systems either.

Quote:

What about the "islands" that don't even look natural, ones seemingly made out of blocks.

What about the ****ing huge canyons gutting hyrule in TP? what about the mysterious woods where every path somehow leads back to the entrance? what about this elf dude with green clothes and his ****ing arrows that freeze you? why do octopi spit rocks? the answer is the same.

Quote:

Add to this when you want to go somewhere on the sea you have to play the stupid song to change the direction of the wind. Try counting how many times you have to play the song next time you play through. I think the number would surprise you.

First of all, you only really have to change directions if its a 90+ degree turn. play it once , point it in the general direction of the target island, and aim for the island, not the wind. it gets you there faster then going max speed to a nearby island and then changing the wind again.

Second, i can do the wind song in about the same amount of time it takes me to equip the horsecall/find grass (at hyrule south entrance and don't have the horsecall yet? well too bad, learn to warp!), or pull out the ocarina and call epona. Granted TP does win by letting you just flat out warp anywhere (as long as you hate exploring, that it is).

Quote:

I by no means hate WW, don't get me wrong. When it comes to the overworld map though it gets really tedious. There is no such thing as a 'bad" Zelda game. However I should not find the overworld boring, ever,

How often do you actually go across the field in oot or tp instead of warping. play the adult portion of oot without warping up until the shadow temple and tell me its not boring. bonus points if you do it without epona.

I don't even think sailing is that great, its just that people get oot's overworld confused with with the 2d games. theres nothing on it except some harmless poes and gossip stone grottos. its a bit better as a kid thanks to to random giant peahats off the side road and night skeletons i guess.

***Cosmonautical*** · 04-17-2010, 03:22 AM

TG, those elements still suck in the games you're comparing WW to - it's just not as blatant, because you can at least get off your horse and walk around, and they're not sectioned off in a matix. TP is not similarily divided into a graph with one cave per square, etc, there is actually much more obvious exploring to do. It doesn't reach anywhere near LA level density, obviously, but it's less mechanical in nature. You could try to argue that there are more chokepoints in TP by way of canyon paths, etc, but that's preferential observation - anywhere worth accessing in WW literally has a single point of entry. There's no sense of scouring the ocean for points of interest, as those points are made obvious by being islands - this makes it less exploratory in nature and more like a list of menial tasks to complete.

OoT is like the opposite of WW on the spectrum of density failure - not only is it tiny and empty, but there's literally only 4 possible paths, all of which dead end. I'd take WW over that in some instances, because at least there's the freedom of going the wrong way.

***Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds*** · 04-17-2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bats with Hats

i have adhd and i love the sailing, what the hell is wrong with you people. despite what you may remember, OOT and TP did not have packed overworlds filled with ****. OOT's was at least pretty easy to navigate.

Collecting triforce pieces is certainly not one of the game's strong points, but it still takes less time then the TP intro, and unlike the intro theirs tons of islands with caves and **** on the way so its not like your mindlessly sailing for an hour.

As far as i can tell the number one downfall of WW and MM in the eyes of most people is that they doesn't live up to their OOT/LTTP nostalgia masterpiece (newsflash, neither does OOT or LTTP)

1. OoT isn't comparable to TP in terms of overworld. Don't pretend they're basically the same thing, because they are so seriously not, I can't help but think you were being facetious in the first place.

2. You are mindlessly sailing for an hour. For several hours. To get to the islands. And all you do is sail (the "attacks" on your boat were crap and boring, or annoying, not worth it). You can just keep sailing past the sharks or whatever, and they will more often than not just miss hitting you. Crap.

3. I don't have nostalgia for OoT (or MQ, for that matter). The other games I replay frequently, therefore is not "nostalgia" at all, but a continued enjoyment and fandom of the series. LttP lives up to my expectations every single time, as does LoZ, AoL, and LA, in particular. WW and MM are both wholeheartedly lame, in their own individual lame ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bats with Hats

Second, i can do the wind song in about the same amount of time it takes me to equip the horsecall/find grass (at hyrule south entrance and don't have the horsecall yet? well too bad, learn to warp!), or pull out the ocarina and call epona. Granted TP does win by letting you just flat out warp anywhere (as long as you hate exploring, that it is).
How often do you actually go across the field in oot or tp instead of warping. play the adult portion of oot without warping up until the shadow temple and tell me its not boring. bonus points if you do it without epona.

I don't HAVE to ride Epona to explore TP (or OoT). Therein lies the difference. You are required to get in that ******* boat any time you want to travel in WW, and that's crap. Crap. OoT was the emptiest pile of lame once you'd already gone through it once, but I already covered that it's not comparable to TP.

TP will continue to have interesting things to go look at when you're running through its overworld. There's way way more area to investigate, even if there's nothing specifically "there", you can still go looking in a heap of places. I felt the lack of more secret things was a bit of a let-down, but at least there were some proper cave systems to navigate. And again, Epona isn't a necessary factor. She's an optional extra if you want a speed increase, or to have some horseback fights.

**LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT** · 04-17-2010, 04:49 AM

LoZ combined with the open world aspect of Morrrowind.

Think about it.

***Cosmonautical*** · 04-22-2010, 08:26 AM

^ I would die a happy man.

Speed · 04-25-2010, 12:00 AM

TRIFORCE CHARTS FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

Toadyking · 05-14-2010, 06:15 PM

This game has some of the coolest looking dungeons, especially the thieves island, the ancient greek underwater one and the forest dungeon but also the abolute worst with the wind dungeon. I stopped right at the triforce hunt and should finish it some day.

CuccoLady · 05-17-2010, 01:31 AM

I think my favorite part of the game was the controlling Makar/Medli duo dungeons. Those were fun as hell.

Although poor Medli, I got curious as to what was hiding in that pit of smoke so I flew her in there. She promptly got raped by floormasters. Whoops.

***Cosmonautical*** · 05-17-2010, 09:59 AM

^ lol I totally did that too

Raped by floor/wallmasters is an appropriate description, I think wallmasters are definitely one of the few game enemies that give me the "gon get raped" vibe. Although there is, like, Tingle who also gives me that vibe, and MM's Mask Salesman, and to a small extent TP Ganon.

04-16-2010, 07:22 PM	#45
Chaos Deviot The Betrayer Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mt. Moon Gender: Posts: 1,813 Thanks: 171 Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts Blog Entries: 1	^Not all of them sucked, though. There's many who say it automatically without playing it, so yeah. Last edited by Chaos Deviot; 04-17-2010 at 10:47 AM.

04-16-2010, 04:34 PM	#41
heh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: lo-ca-tion; Noun- 1. a place or situation occupied: That house is in a fine location Gender: Posts: 9,849 Thanks: 710 Thanked 955 Times in 628 Posts	i have adhd and i love the sailing, what the hell is wrong with you people. despite what you may remember, OOT and TP did not have packed overworlds filled with **. OOT's was at least pretty easy to navigate. Collecting triforce pieces is certainly not one of the game's strong points, but it still takes less time then the TP intro, and unlike the intro theirs tons of islands with caves and ** on the way so its not like your mindlessly sailing for an hour. As far as i can tell the number one downfall of WW and MM in the eyes of most people is that they doesn't live up to their OOT/LTTP nostalgia masterpiece (newsflash, neither does OOT or LTTP)

04-16-2010, 05:58 PM	#43
Daos Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth Gender: Posts: 6,228 Thanks: 146 Thanked 245 Times in 179 Posts	Ahhhh, TG, how I missed your firey debates. To be honest I am no fan of OoT's overworld either but at least you did not have almost too much area to explore. The Great Sea was mostly just that, sea. Each "square" on the map had a small little island with a cave on it. I mean seriously, if these are the tops of mountains then Hyrule must of had small mountains jutting out of everywhere which I certainly don't remember. What about the "islands" that don't even look natural, ones seemingly made out of blocks. Add to this when you want to go somewhere on the sea you have to play the stupid song to change the direction of the wind. Try counting how many times you have to play the song next time you play through. I think the number would surprise you. I by no means hate WW, don't get me wrong. When it comes to the overworld map though it gets really tedious. There is no such thing as a 'bad" Zelda game. However I should not find the overworld boring, ever,

04-17-2010, 12:23 AM	#46
Daos Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth Gender: Posts: 6,228 Thanks: 146 Thanked 245 Times in 179 Posts	The CD-i games don't even count, that's general knowledge.

04-17-2010, 03:22 AM	#48
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	TG, those elements still suck in the games you're comparing WW to - it's just not as blatant, because you can at least get off your horse and walk around, and they're not sectioned off in a matix. TP is not similarily divided into a graph with one cave per square, etc, there is actually much more obvious exploring to do. It doesn't reach anywhere near LA level density, obviously, but it's less mechanical in nature. You could try to argue that there are more chokepoints in TP by way of canyon paths, etc, but that's preferential observation - anywhere worth accessing in WW literally has a single point of entry. There's no sense of scouring the ocean for points of interest, as those points are made obvious by being islands - this makes it less exploratory in nature and more like a list of menial tasks to complete. OoT is like the opposite of WW on the spectrum of density failure - not only is it tiny and empty, but there's literally only 4 possible paths, all of which dead end. I'd take WW over that in some instances, because at least there's the freedom of going the wrong way.

04-17-2010, 04:49 AM	#50
LASER BEAR ASSAULT UNIT Videos Mod Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In my pants Gender: Posts: 4,613 Thanks: 2,502 Thanked 767 Times in 422 Posts	LoZ combined with the open world aspect of Morrrowind. Think about it.

04-22-2010, 08:26 AM	#51
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	^ I would die a happy man.

04-25-2010, 12:00 AM	#52
Speed Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: If there's a bright center to the universe I'm on the planet it's farthest from Gender: Posts: 3,747 Thanks: 1,598 Thanked 320 Times in 224 Posts Blog Entries: 1	TRIFORCE CHARTS FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

05-14-2010, 06:15 PM	#53
Toadyking Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: California Gender: Posts: 5,107 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	This game has some of the coolest looking dungeons, especially the thieves island, the ancient greek underwater one and the forest dungeon but also the abolute worst with the wind dungeon. I stopped right at the triforce hunt and should finish it some day.

05-17-2010, 01:31 AM	#54
CuccoLady Anime and Cartoons Mod Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: THIS LOCATION REMINDS ME OF A PUZZLE, LUKE Gender: Posts: 9,077 Thanks: 2,825 Thanked 1,222 Times in 822 Posts	I think my favorite part of the game was the controlling Makar/Medli duo dungeons. Those were fun as hell. Although poor Medli, I got curious as to what was hiding in that pit of smoke so I flew her in there. She promptly got raped by floormasters. Whoops.

05-17-2010, 09:59 AM	#55
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	^ lol I totally did that too Raped by floor/wallmasters is an appropriate description, I think wallmasters are definitely one of the few game enemies that give me the "gon get raped" vibe. Although there is, like, Tingle who also gives me that vibe, and MM's Mask Salesman, and to a small extent TP Ganon.