When Val gets bored, something something something.

**Valigarmander** · 10-07-2011, 03:08 PM

...What, I have a boredom thread for the Metroid and Pokemon forums.

Anywho, here's the latest fruit of my free time:

Let me know if you see any mistakes.

***Cosmonautical*** · 10-07-2011, 03:14 PM

Awesome work, bro.

***Marilink*** · 10-07-2011, 04:01 PM

This is excellent. Did it just work out that recurring swords had the same powers? Namely, the Biggoron's sword from OoT to the Oracle games.

I like how my favorite sword (the Gilded sword) is in a class all its own.

**Valigarmander** · 10-07-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilink

This is excellent. Did it just work out that recurring swords had the same powers? Namely, the Biggoron's sword from OoT to the Oracle games.

Yep, everything actually fit together perfectly.

**Loot** · 10-07-2011, 05:32 PM

So Link from Link to the Past had the most difficult enemies in the Zelda timeline and still kicked ass?

I agree with this.

***Marilink*** · 10-07-2011, 11:07 PM

Yeah, the Golden sword is kind of ridiculous there. O.o

**X-3** · 10-07-2011, 11:34 PM

The Golden Sword is nice but I don't ever recall using it to cut stars in half or anything.

**Loot** · 10-08-2011, 12:05 AM

Plotwise, it makes perfect sense though. It's the final use of the Master Sword, so it's no wonder its full power was brought out, then turned to gold by some vengeful fairy.

Would make more sense if that was the last of Ganondorf, but eh.

Kargath · 10-08-2011, 12:25 AM

Did you normalise it to different enemy heart representations throughout the series?

**X-3** · 10-08-2011, 12:47 AM

^^It's just a bit stronger than the Tempered Sword. It's certainly not twice as strong. You don't even need it to be beat Ganon. I agree that it's probably the strongest sword in the series, but I don't think it's 16 wooden swords strong.

I think the problem I have with this list is that it has upgrades=twice the power when most of the time it's just +1. Having a list that only goes up to 5-6 swords would be kinda boring though.

Anyway, I refuse to accept this list of power levels of fictional magical swords as legitimate!

***CaptHayfever*** · 10-08-2011, 01:49 AM

Quote:

something something something

Dark Side.
Something something something complete.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

The Missing Link · 10-08-2011, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-3

^^It's just a bit stronger than the Tempered Sword. It's certainly not twice as strong. You don't even need it to be beat Ganon. I agree that it's probably the strongest sword in the series, but I don't think it's 16 wooden swords strong.

This is correct, and you can pretty much prove this by way of the guards in Hyrule Castle.

Green guards have "2 hearts"; blue guards have 3; red guards have 4 (if I remember rightly). Ball and chain soldiers have 6?

Fighter's Sword kills green guards in 2 hits and blue guards in 3.
Master Swords one-shots green guards, but it takes two hits for blue and red.
Tempered Sword one-shots blue guards but not red.
Golden Sword one-shots red guards (again, if I'm not mistaken).

**Valigarmander** · 10-08-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Missing Link

This is correct, and you can pretty much prove this by way of the guards in Hyrule Castle.

Green guards have "2 hearts"; blue guards have 3; red guards have 4 (if I remember rightly). Ball and chain soldiers have 6?

Fighter's Sword kills green guards in 2 hits and blue guards in 3.
Master Swords one-shots green guards, but it takes two hits for blue and red.
Tempered Sword one-shots blue guards but not red.
Golden Sword one-shots red guards (again, if I'm not mistaken).

Every source I used (the Zelda wiki and a few FAQs) stated that the Tempered Sword was twice as strong as the Master Sword, and that the Golden Sword was twice as strong as the Tempered Sword. But I guess it is possible that they got it wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kargath

Did you normalise it to different enemy heart representations throughout the series?

I wasn't that bored.

***Marilink*** · 10-08-2011, 11:24 AM

I always figured that the powers of the LttP swords doubled upon upgrades, but I can't say I ever tested it.

The Missing Link · 10-08-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valigarmander

Every source I used (the Zelda wiki and a few FAQs) stated that the Tempered Sword was twice as strong as the Master Sword, and that the Golden Sword was twice as strong as the Tempered Sword. But I guess it is possible that they got it wrong.

FAQs over at GameFAQs are at least 2:1 against the constant doubling of power.

Hmm, I wonder if there's a way to test this quickly and easily by doing some ROM hacking.

**Loot** · 10-08-2011, 12:46 PM

Use a Trainer to give you the Golden Sword at the start of the game and compare how many hits it takes to take down the Ball and Chain guy near Zelda's cell to how many it takes with the Fighter's Sword?

The Missing Link · 10-08-2011, 01:03 PM

Hinoxes take 5 hits with the Master Sword, 3 with the Tempered Sword, and 2 with the Golden Sword.

Since the Master Sword is twice as powerful as the Fighter's Sword, they need to have exactly 9 or 10 units of damage.

If the Tempered Sword is just three times as powerful as the Fighter's Sword, then since it takes three hits, Hinoxes must have 9 hearts. However, this yields an impossible situation if the Golden Sword is merely four times as powerful.

If the Tempered Sword is twice as powerful as the Master Sword, then it will do four units of damage per hit, meaning it will still take three hits. The Golden Sword, doing 8 damage per hit, will require two.

I guess you win today.

---

Anyway, Val, this is really REALLY neat. Do you mind if I report on this on some Zelda website?

**Valigarmander** · 10-08-2011, 01:43 PM

^ Go ahead. I could use some publicity.

***Cosmonautical*** · 10-08-2011, 02:59 PM

I've always assumed that the imbalance in hits in LttP indicated that the enemies had more complicated hitpoints than "1 fighter sword hit = 1 heart."

BTW, it's never actually declared which sword is used in Zelda II, but whatever it is Link's swordsmanship is scalable in that game and probably comparable to the Golden Master Sword by the end of the game.

**Valigarmander** · 10-08-2011, 03:12 PM

^ The manual states Link begins his adventure with "a magical sword", and the Zelda Wiki seemed to take that as being the Magical Sword from the first game, so I threw it in on the chart.

10-07-2011, 03:08 PM	#1
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	When Val gets bored, something something something. ...What, I have a boredom thread for the Metroid and Pokemon forums. Anywho, here's the latest fruit of my free time: Let me know if you see any mistakes.

10-08-2011, 12:47 AM	#10
X-3 Useful as an Owl Join Date: Jan 2004 Gender: Posts: 15,947 Thanks: 753 Thanked 1,213 Times in 790 Posts Blog Entries: 10	this matters the world to me ^^It's just a bit stronger than the Tempered Sword. It's certainly not twice as strong. You don't even need it to be beat Ganon. I agree that it's probably the strongest sword in the series, but I don't think it's 16 wooden swords strong. I think the problem I have with this list is that it has upgrades=twice the power when most of the time it's just +1. Having a list that only goes up to 5-6 swords would be kinda boring though. Anyway, I refuse to accept this list of power levels of fictional magical swords as legitimate!

10-08-2011, 01:03 PM	#17
The Missing Link Professional Lurker Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Hyrule, Washington, US Gender: Posts: 17,128 Thanks: 405 Thanked 606 Times in 368 Posts	Hinoxes take 5 hits with the Master Sword, 3 with the Tempered Sword, and 2 with the Golden Sword. Since the Master Sword is twice as powerful as the Fighter's Sword, they need to have exactly 9 or 10 units of damage. If the Tempered Sword is just three times as powerful as the Fighter's Sword, then since it takes three hits, Hinoxes must have 9 hearts. However, this yields an impossible situation if the Golden Sword is merely four times as powerful. If the Tempered Sword is twice as powerful as the Master Sword, then it will do four units of damage per hit, meaning it will still take three hits. The Golden Sword, doing 8 damage per hit, will require two. I guess you win today. --- Anyway, Val, this is really REALLY neat. Do you mind if I report on this on some Zelda website? Last edited by The Missing Link; 10-08-2011 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

10-07-2011, 03:14 PM	#2
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	Awesome work, bro.

10-07-2011, 04:01 PM	#3
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,536 Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,008 Posts	This is excellent. Did it just work out that recurring swords had the same powers? Namely, the Biggoron's sword from OoT to the Oracle games. I like how my favorite sword (the Gilded sword) is in a class all its own.

10-07-2011, 05:32 PM	#5
Loot Apparently I'm a mod? Join Date: May 2001 Location: LEGITIMATE BUSINESS Gender: Posts: 13,208 Thanks: 236 Thanked 1,237 Times in 659 Posts	So Link from Link to the Past had the most difficult enemies in the Zelda timeline and still kicked ass? I agree with this.

10-07-2011, 11:07 PM	#6
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,536 Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,008 Posts	Yeah, the Golden sword is kind of ridiculous there. O.o

10-07-2011, 11:34 PM	#7
X-3 Useful as an Owl Join Date: Jan 2004 Gender: Posts: 15,947 Thanks: 753 Thanked 1,213 Times in 790 Posts Blog Entries: 10	The Golden Sword is nice but I don't ever recall using it to cut stars in half or anything.

10-08-2011, 12:05 AM	#8
Loot Apparently I'm a mod? Join Date: May 2001 Location: LEGITIMATE BUSINESS Gender: Posts: 13,208 Thanks: 236 Thanked 1,237 Times in 659 Posts	Plotwise, it makes perfect sense though. It's the final use of the Master Sword, so it's no wonder its full power was brought out, then turned to gold by some vengeful fairy. Would make more sense if that was the last of Ganondorf, but eh.

10-08-2011, 12:25 AM	#9
Kargath et in Arcadia ego Join Date: Jul 2001 Gender: Posts: 8,334 Thanks: 1,226 Thanked 780 Times in 488 Posts	Did you normalise it to different enemy heart representations throughout the series?

10-08-2011, 11:24 AM	#14
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,536 Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,008 Posts	I always figured that the powers of the LttP swords doubled upon upgrades, but I can't say I ever tested it.

10-08-2011, 12:46 PM	#16
Loot Apparently I'm a mod? Join Date: May 2001 Location: LEGITIMATE BUSINESS Gender: Posts: 13,208 Thanks: 236 Thanked 1,237 Times in 659 Posts	Use a Trainer to give you the Golden Sword at the start of the game and compare how many hits it takes to take down the Ball and Chain guy near Zelda's cell to how many it takes with the Fighter's Sword?

10-08-2011, 01:43 PM	#18
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	^ Go ahead. I could use some publicity.

10-08-2011, 02:59 PM	#19
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	I've always assumed that the imbalance in hits in LttP indicated that the enemies had more complicated hitpoints than "1 fighter sword hit = 1 heart." BTW, it's never actually declared which sword is used in Zelda II, but whatever it is Link's swordsmanship is scalable in that game and probably comparable to the Golden Master Sword by the end of the game.

10-08-2011, 03:12 PM	#20
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	^ The manual states Link begins his adventure with "a magical sword", and the Zelda Wiki seemed to take that as being the Magical Sword from the first game, so I threw it in on the chart.