Spirit Tracks

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 12-28-2011, 01:53 AM

I loved Wind Waker, it was my favorite Zelda. When they announced a direct sequel with the same visual style, I was happy. Turned out to be a good game, though flawed. Then came another direct sequel, Spirit Tracks. I had my doubts, but kept faith in the brand.

Now I love Zelda, the whole franchise, with the possible exceptions of the original since it is quite dated now, and Zelda 2 because, well f**k, it's an oddball and it is tough as nails. Never beat that one. Anyway, I still regard them as good in their own right. Then I played Spirit Tracks. Familiar, maybe too familiar I thought but whatever...

Then I saw Cole. "F**k." I just over-looked it. Then train people, the Lokomos appeared. "Oh Lord." Okay, I just put all of my faith into the core gameplay. Wow. There was no difficulty and little fun. I am near the end of the game and I only enjoyed the music and Linebeck's cameo so far.

I got a LOT more to say on this game but I want to hear everyone else's opinion.

Panfan · 12-28-2011, 02:03 AM

I thought Phantom Hourglass was only okay, and I didn't really have any desire to pick this game up.

AND WHATCHU TRYNA SAY ABOUT LoZ SON

**X-3** · 12-28-2011, 04:04 AM

I thought it was alright. I also thought it was more fun and difficult than PH.

***Marilink*** · 12-28-2011, 09:30 AM

Did you just call the original LoZ dated?

Cuz it's not. It's old, but it certainly isn't dated.

**Valigarmander** · 12-28-2011, 09:41 AM

Personally, I enjoyed Spirit Tracks more than Phantom Hourglass. The dungeons were much better, at least.

CuccoLady · 12-28-2011, 02:32 PM

WW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PH.

ST isn't up to par with any of the console games, that's for sure, but it is piles better than Hourglass with the exception of Linebeck.

also I like trains.

[Reasons include, besides trains: awesome soundtrack, more difficult and interesting dungeons, possessing phantoms, NOT having to go back and re-do the parts of the tower you already did like you had to in PH, no Navi fairy wannabe, and pretty much everything except Linebeck was an improvement]

The Missing Link · 12-28-2011, 03:38 PM

The last 1/3 of Spirit Tracks is really good. The first 2/3, however, is pretty lame and isn't worth much. It actually made me appreciate PH a lot more...

Which says something. :P

But the last 1/3 of ST is awesome and almost redeemed the rest.

Random User · 12-28-2011, 04:12 PM

I liked ST more than I did PH, to be honest. The dungeons and tower were a lot better than PH's dungeons and temple. The train controls are kinda crap compared to PH's ship controls, though.

***Cosmonautical*** · 12-28-2011, 08:01 PM

ST has a good setup for environments and characters that it doesn't use at all.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 12-28-2011, 11:46 PM

It kept the problems of PH and refined them instead of replacing them.

Cole looks like an evil Lucky Charms character, there needs to be a Lokomos genocide, the microphone portions are terribly inaccurate, the Gerudo need to hijack a hot air balloon to crash into the Spirit Tower, Zelda needs to not have personality forced into her, there needs to be some element of exploration restored, there should be more WW and PH references...I better not rant too much but what a let down.

In all honesty, it would have been a great game if it didn't bear the Zelda name. I just feel let down. I wanted a strong finish to the WW storyline (it seems the next handheld Zelda will not feature ties to WW).

***Marilink*** · 12-28-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

Zelda needs to not have personality forced into her

I know, I HATE it when my characters are 3-dimensional. What a letdown.

You know what video games need? Fewer dynamic characters. We can't have too many of those running around.

The Missing Link · 12-29-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Blue J

I know, I HATE it when my characters are 3-dimensional. What a letdown.

You know what video games need? Fewer dynamic characters. We can't have too many of those running around.

That's less the point. Zelda in ST was a hodgepodge of personality traits that were just thrown into a pot with the hope that a defined character would emerge from the stew.

- Rather adventurous, but terrified of rats (and only rats, this despite that she was in a huge iron body that couldn't be hurt and had a big sword to dispose of them)
- Completely loyal to Link and the mission, but also really just wanted her body back (because she was horrified at the misuse of it)
- Seemed completely underwhelmed by the fact that she was a spirit/dead and yet never seemed to really develop her character much from that experience (that should be heh life-changing)
- Completely oblivious to Cole's evil and never once questions why he wears TWO FREAKING HATS yet somehow is deeply suspicious that something is going on

Zelda's character doesn't make a lot of sense. She has personality, this is true. She just doesn't have a solid character that evokes much sentiment all in all outside of ZOMG DUNGEONING WITH ZELDA TEH AWESOME!!!

CuccoLady · 12-29-2011, 06:06 PM

I gave a lot more craps about ST Zelda than I did most others, though. Was she the most amazingly-developed and wonderful and deep character evar???

Hell no.

Did she actually HAVE a character, rather than just be an object put there to nag at you? Yes. Thank the sweet merciful goddesses above. She had a story purpose and I liked her. That was an improvement over Ciela by far, who could have cut off her wings and jumped off a cliff without me caring at all.

And dungeoning with Zelda WAS teh awesomes. :{P

Rainbow Dash · 12-29-2011, 06:49 PM

ST will always have a spot in my heart because link is a train conductor.

choo choo

***Cosmonautical*** · 12-29-2011, 08:35 PM

ST Zelda was better than Tetra, if nothing else.

And yeah, the Lokomos were terrible. If it's any consolation, they're actually just people in wheelchairs (hilarious, really), not a race.

What TML said amuses me, because while the dungeons started to become something on the verge of challenging, the environments and ideas slacked off to a very low point. The game world itself was by then revealed to be pathetically small and in possession of precious little character.

In comparison to Phantom Hourglass (a game I can scarcely believe Nintendo chose to release), though, it was certainly an improvement.

The whole "blow into the mic to play the pan flute" thing actually worked well for me, by the way, but only because I never play my DS on the go anywhere. TML had a fantastic experience with an airplane, if I recall correctly. Then again, being unable to play on a game because of a control technicality is much better than Blizzard's always-online-DRM "Sometimes you just play another game" bull**** that put me off buying their games.

Okay, to be fair, there are like 9 thousand other reasons to hate Blizzard, anyway, but you've got to put it into perspective.

I think the world of Spirit Tracks is really promising, and it should have had a more Zelda II/RPG like formula with tons of location icons around the map, personally. That and they should've given you a way to PROPERLY FIGHT OFF the demon train things, which also could've worked precisely like Zelda II enemy encounters. Hell, I can throw a stone and whatever it hits I could improve.

The Missing Link · 12-29-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuccoLady

Was she the most amazingly-developed and wonderful and deep character evar???

Hell no.

Did she actually HAVE a character, rather than just be an object put there to nag at you? Yes.

I *do* agree with this. I would definitely say that ST Zelda was much more significant than TP Zelda by a longshot. I will give them credit for that.

But my standards for "characterization" are high. I personally have a conviction that games can be forms of art, and I think that games can be more than they are. And I believe that The Legend of Zelda has great potential to be that, but Nintendo generally speaking squanders that potential for greatness by taking the cheap way out of things. Great gameplay and mechanics it has in spades; when it comes to story and characterization, eh... not so much. Maybe it's not supposed to have it, and maybe it's by design, but I can't help but hope for more from the series as a whole.

(That said, yes, ST Zelda was better than PH Tetra. But I still prefer WW Tetra to both.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Octopus

What TML said amuses me, because while the dungeons started to become something on the verge of challenging, the environments and ideas slacked off to a very low point. The game world itself was by then revealed to be pathetically small and in possession of precious little character.

This... is very true. There was inverse scale here. I pretty much blew off and made fun of the story for the first 2/3 of the game because the game was pathetic and pathetically easy, and by the time I actually was challenged, there was zero real substance left in the game.

Quote:

TML had a fantastic experience with an airplane, if I recall correctly.

This is correct.

Rainbow Dash · 12-29-2011, 08:57 PM

link is an airline pilot.

hyrule flight simulator 20112

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 12-29-2011, 11:23 PM

Just wanna comment on one point specifically at the moment due to laziness; Zelda's character.

Often she is little more than a reference, which is sort of ironic since the game bears her name, but this Zelda we were left with should have been asleep the whole time like in Zelda 2.

The biggest flag raised when she was flippin' out about her body and she got in Link's face. Nobody should defend that blatantly forced scene, which is seared into my memory as the worst moment in Zelda's history of characterization. The CD-i Zelda felt more real. That ST ghost wasn't Zelda, not at all.

Imagine in the next Zelda, Link is now a punk rocker hero and the obligatory instrument is an electric guitar, and he is just a general douche on top of everything, and now he says stupid crap all the time. How would you feel at the sudden injection of "character?"

OoT and WW Zelda were by far the best portrayals of Zelda. In fact, look at the job they did on Link back then. The subtle changes for that particular incarnation were apparent but not over-powering. He wasn't a perfect hero; he got dizzy during his own frenzied attacks. He had emotions more like a child might, like fear and happiness in abundance. He was perceptive and brave, and cared for his
family greatly.

Now back to ST Zelda. Scared of rats, bitch, selfish, not at all subtle were her traits. This is my opinion, obviously, but do give it some consideration.

***Cosmonautical*** · 12-30-2011, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I REALLY HATE POKEMON!

OoT and WW Zelda were by far the best portrayals of Zelda.

Skyward Sword.

But anyway, I thought Zelda was somewhat entertaining in ST. Although, got to say she didn't have a patch on the Anouki which I think are awesome and appear in the same game.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · 12-30-2011, 10:40 PM

As far as I have heard, Skyward Sword is damn near perfect in all ways, but I haven't touched it so I can't say.

I just beat the game last night and the only part I cared for with Zelda was when she helped cram the...sigh...Lokomo...Sword into the down-syndrome Smurf Ganon. Pretty epic, honestly. I enjoyed the ending. She redeemed herself to some extent, in my eyes.

When I first seen the Anouki in PH, my initial thoughts were not kind. But I grew to like them. I was happy that they played an even bigger role this time around.

12-28-2011, 01:53 AM	#1
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Spirit Tracks I loved Wind Waker, it was my favorite Zelda. When they announced a direct sequel with the same visual style, I was happy. Turned out to be a good game, though flawed. Then came another direct sequel, Spirit Tracks. I had my doubts, but kept faith in the brand. Now I love Zelda, the whole franchise, with the possible exceptions of the original since it is quite dated now, and Zelda 2 because, well f*k, it's an oddball and it is tough as nails. Never beat that one. Anyway, I still regard them as good in their own right. Then I played Spirit Tracks. Familiar, maybe too familiar I thought but whatever... Then I saw Cole. "F*k." I just over-looked it. Then train people, the Lokomos appeared. "Oh Lord." Okay, I just put all of my faith into the core gameplay. Wow. There was no difficulty and little fun. I am near the end of the game and I only enjoyed the music and Linebeck's cameo so far. I got a LOT more to say on this game but I want to hear everyone else's opinion.

12-28-2011, 02:32 PM	#6
CuccoLady Anime and Cartoons Mod Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: THIS LOCATION REMINDS ME OF A PUZZLE, LUKE Gender: Posts: 9,077 Thanks: 2,825 Thanked 1,222 Times in 822 Posts	WW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PH. ST isn't up to par with any of the console games, that's for sure, but it is piles better than Hourglass with the exception of Linebeck. also I like trains. [Reasons include, besides trains: awesome soundtrack, more difficult and interesting dungeons, possessing phantoms, NOT having to go back and re-do the parts of the tower you already did like you had to in PH, no Navi fairy wannabe, and pretty much everything except Linebeck was an improvement] Last edited by CuccoLady; 12-28-2011 at 02:51 PM.

12-29-2011, 06:06 PM	#13
CuccoLady Anime and Cartoons Mod Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: THIS LOCATION REMINDS ME OF A PUZZLE, LUKE Gender: Posts: 9,077 Thanks: 2,825 Thanked 1,222 Times in 822 Posts	SS takes the cake obviously but I digress I gave a lot more craps about ST Zelda than I did most others, though. Was she the most amazingly-developed and wonderful and deep character evar??? Hell no. Did she actually HAVE a character, rather than just be an object put there to nag at you? Yes. Thank the sweet merciful goddesses above. She had a story purpose and I liked her. That was an improvement over Ciela by far, who could have cut off her wings and jumped off a cliff without me caring at all. And dungeoning with Zelda WAS teh awesomes. :{P

12-28-2011, 02:03 AM	#2
Panfan AND HE PRAYS Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grayskull Gender: Posts: 18,807 Thanks: 1,405 Thanked 2,251 Times in 1,339 Posts Blog Entries: 15	I thought Phantom Hourglass was only okay, and I didn't really have any desire to pick this game up. AND WHATCHU TRYNA SAY ABOUT LoZ SON

12-28-2011, 04:04 AM	#3
X-3 Useful as an Owl Join Date: Jan 2004 Gender: Posts: 15,947 Thanks: 753 Thanked 1,213 Times in 790 Posts Blog Entries: 10	I thought it was alright. I also thought it was more fun and difficult than PH.

12-28-2011, 09:30 AM	#4
*Marilink* Gotta catch 'em all! Supermod! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Location, Location. Gender: Posts: 29,118 Thanks: 2,536 Thanked 1,823 Times in 1,008 Posts	Did you just call the original LoZ dated? Cuz it's not. It's old, but it certainly isn't dated.

12-28-2011, 09:41 AM	#5
Valigarmander The Bee's Knees Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The land of rain and trees (Oregon) Gender: Posts: 29,755 Thanks: 1,649 Thanked 5,701 Times in 2,581 Posts Blog Entries: 20	Personally, I enjoyed Spirit Tracks more than Phantom Hourglass. The dungeons were much better, at least.

12-28-2011, 03:38 PM	#7
The Missing Link Professional Lurker Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: New Hyrule, Washington, US Gender: Posts: 17,128 Thanks: 405 Thanked 606 Times in 368 Posts	The last 1/3 of Spirit Tracks is really good. The first 2/3, however, is pretty lame and isn't worth much. It actually made me appreciate PH a lot more... Which says something. :P But the last 1/3 of ST is awesome and almost redeemed the rest.

12-28-2011, 04:12 PM	#8
Random User Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Equestrian Republic of Spanglidesh Gender: Posts: 3,562 Thanks: 321 Thanked 195 Times in 143 Posts Blog Entries: 4	I liked ST more than I did PH, to be honest. The dungeons and tower were a lot better than PH's dungeons and temple. The train controls are kinda crap compared to PH's ship controls, though.

12-28-2011, 08:01 PM	#9
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	ST has a good setup for environments and characters that it doesn't use at all.

12-28-2011, 11:46 PM	#10
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	It kept the problems of PH and refined them instead of replacing them. Cole looks like an evil Lucky Charms character, there needs to be a Lokomos genocide, the microphone portions are terribly inaccurate, the Gerudo need to hijack a hot air balloon to crash into the Spirit Tower, Zelda needs to not have personality forced into her, there needs to be some element of exploration restored, there should be more WW and PH references...I better not rant too much but what a let down. In all honesty, it would have been a great game if it didn't bear the Zelda name. I just feel let down. I wanted a strong finish to the WW storyline (it seems the next handheld Zelda will not feature ties to WW).

12-29-2011, 06:49 PM	#14
Rainbow Dash been dreamin', i've been waitin' Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: a bomb-ass cloud house bachelorette pad Gender: Posts: 24,402 Thanks: 173 Thanked 1,179 Times in 716 Posts	ST will always have a spot in my heart because link is a train conductor. choo choo

12-29-2011, 08:35 PM	#15
*Cosmonautical* Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I rub my tilde all over your asterisk Gender: Posts: 28,103 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 5,338 Times in 2,433 Posts	ST Zelda was better than Tetra, if nothing else. And yeah, the Lokomos were terrible. If it's any consolation, they're actually just people in wheelchairs (hilarious, really), not a race. What TML said amuses me, because while the dungeons started to become something on the verge of challenging, the environments and ideas slacked off to a very low point. The game world itself was by then revealed to be pathetically small and in possession of precious little character. In comparison to Phantom Hourglass (a game I can scarcely believe Nintendo chose to release), though, it was certainly an improvement. The whole "blow into the mic to play the pan flute" thing actually worked well for me, by the way, but only because I never play my DS on the go anywhere. TML had a fantastic experience with an airplane, if I recall correctly. Then again, being unable to play on a game because of a control technicality is much better than Blizzard's always-online-DRM "Sometimes you just play another game" bull**** that put me off buying their games. Okay, to be fair, there are like 9 thousand other reasons to hate Blizzard, anyway, but you've got to put it into perspective. I think the world of Spirit Tracks is really promising, and it should have had a more Zelda II/RPG like formula with tons of location icons around the map, personally. That and they should've given you a way to PROPERLY FIGHT OFF the demon train things, which also could've worked precisely like Zelda II enemy encounters. Hell, I can throw a stone and whatever it hits I could improve.

12-29-2011, 08:57 PM	#17
Rainbow Dash been dreamin', i've been waitin' Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: a bomb-ass cloud house bachelorette pad Gender: Posts: 24,402 Thanks: 173 Thanked 1,179 Times in 716 Posts	link is an airline pilot. hyrule flight simulator 20112

12-29-2011, 11:23 PM	#18
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Just wanna comment on one point specifically at the moment due to laziness; Zelda's character. Often she is little more than a reference, which is sort of ironic since the game bears her name, but this Zelda we were left with should have been asleep the whole time like in Zelda 2. The biggest flag raised when she was flippin' out about her body and she got in Link's face. Nobody should defend that blatantly forced scene, which is seared into my memory as the worst moment in Zelda's history of characterization. The CD-i Zelda felt more real. That ST ghost wasn't Zelda, not at all. Imagine in the next Zelda, Link is now a punk rocker hero and the obligatory instrument is an electric guitar, and he is just a general douche on top of everything, and now he says stupid crap all the time. How would you feel at the sudden injection of "character?" OoT and WW Zelda were by far the best portrayals of Zelda. In fact, look at the job they did on Link back then. The subtle changes for that particular incarnation were apparent but not over-powering. He wasn't a perfect hero; he got dizzy during his own frenzied attacks. He had emotions more like a child might, like fear and happiness in abundance. He was perceptive and brave, and cared for his family greatly. Now back to ST Zelda. Scared of rats, bitch, selfish, not at all subtle were her traits. This is my opinion, obviously, but do give it some consideration.

12-30-2011, 10:40 PM	#20
I REALLY HATE POKEMON! Goku lives on the Sun Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: California, U.S.A Gender: Posts: 12,717 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 275 Times in 234 Posts Blog Entries: 1	As far as I have heard, Skyward Sword is damn near perfect in all ways, but I haven't touched it so I can't say. I just beat the game last night and the only part I cared for with Zelda was when she helped cram the...sigh...Lokomo...Sword into the down-syndrome Smurf Ganon. Pretty epic, honestly. I enjoyed the ending. She redeemed herself to some extent, in my eyes. When I first seen the Anouki in PH, my initial thoughts were not kind. But I grew to like them. I was happy that they played an even bigger role this time around.