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Character and Franchise changes you're still irked about

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:05 pm
by е и ժ е я
Man, I am good at holding grudges. I like to forgive people, but when Nintendo changes something that worked? I've got nothing but irritation. Just make some real sequels, folks.

Mario's voice. I know everyone who grew up during and after the N64 era is used to it. Lou Albano is the Mario voice I already knew, and I loved the character. Super Mario Bros. had some well-developed characters, and now they're one dimensional. I sometimes wonder if Nintendo gets a sore ass from riding the fence so hard.

Princess Toadstool. Obviously, Nintendo of Japan was going to override this stuff eventually. It just so happens that they again took a decent character and completely flattened them, and then to make it more obvious they changed her name to sync up to NoJ. Get a real voice actor, FFS.

Zelda has become excessively Japanese, and yet more generic. I get it, make what you know, etc. It was originally a high-fantasy adventure set in a pseudo-European environment, and it enfluenced and helped define how we think of Western Fantasy over all. It's nice to see the series getting back to its roots a bit more, and the gameplay sure has become a lot less hollow for me with Wild Breath, but, well... It's just so 'anime' and it has that somewhat manufactured 'quirkiness' to it that just really feels a bit cliche to it, still. I like the themes, but it's like they brought me out my favorite dish with the wrong dressing on it. By not sticking to their core, it has become something that merely dresses itself similarly to Zelda, with rather bland imp enemies and too-obvious combat-mechanics which can only be dealt with in a single fashion becoming the norm. Hopefully, the series will deviate and start to swing back more towards what made it unique thematically.

Samus. Stop taking her out of the suit. Stop trying to make her another bleach-blonde waifu. Really guys, you don't have to make everything into a booty shot photo op.

Metroid and generic sci-fi themes. Thanks to the changes in teams, Metroid itself has suffered quite a bit in terms of its consistency in technology and background. While the series started as a very stark and obvious entry into unknown organic technology and alien abominations, we've seen it reproduce much more.. traditional Sci Fi themes. What sort? Well, metal and computers, primarily. I like that sort of thing when it's a concept core to a plot and theme, but it seems out of place in the Metroid franchise, considering its origins. We've gone from essentially only the relics of a lost architecture and alien technology occasionally populating a subterranean ecosystem to a reversal - a climate-controlled zoo in a largely current-technology inspired, human-built artificial station, complete with blip bleep 60s-70s style generic computer terminals. Neuromancer this is not, it is just a window dressing, and a fairly unoriginal departure from the Space-Adventure and Guyver themes. It almost seems like it's a meta statement about the creation of a sequel to a game which blew up that natural environs, which missed the point that they could've just made up literally any other messed up alien world. Overall, it's missing that artistic feeling of interpretation. We've got too much info-dumping and visual telegraphing happening.

So anyone have any other digs to make at how Nintendo's handled their favorites? It doesn't have to be a major structural crit.

And no thanks, I'm not looking for an argument, it's okay to feel differently from me. Just chill, let people talk about what they like and don't like.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:10 pm
by I am nobody
The only thing that's really bothering me right now is that Mario Kart needs to decide if it's a silly party game or a racing game. If it's the former, stop asking me to do everything perfectly. If it's the latter, let me turn AI cheating and items off. It's good enough at what it does to be either, but no game can be both at the same time.

The only other Nintendo franchises I care about are Smash, Pokemon, and maybe Fire Emblem, none of which have offended me recently. Zelda used to be included in that, but considering I've only found one of those games even decent in the last eleven years, I think it's time to admit the series and I have grown apart.

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:56 pm
by X-3
I'm pretty sick of all the NPCs and cutscenes in Pokemon games. You're basically just following people around now instead of going on an adventure.

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:51 am
by Marilink
[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1635879, member: 27765"]I'm pretty sick of all the NPCs and cutscenes in Pokemon games. You're basically just following people around now instead of going on an adventure.[/QUOTE]
As much as I like Sun and Moon, I really feel this one.

I still hate Yoshi's "new" voice. His noises in Yoshi's Island were cute and fun. His noises in Yoshi's Story and onward make me want to choke him out.

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:44 am
by DarkZero
[QUOTE="е и ժ е я, post: 1635869, member: 25415"]Just chill, let people talk about what they like and don't like.[/QUOTE]

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:09 am
by New! Tazy Ten
Star Fox trying to go all in on the relationship between Fox and Krystal to the point they filled the last canonically new title with enough drama to fill out a Soap Opera season. Assault was fine trying to start a relationship between the two, but they contrived a reason to make the two angry at each other while literally EVERYONE ELSE that was in Star Fox has no problem teaming up with Fox again with no bad blood.

I guess it would be better to say Command had a bad story with lost potential and everybody knows it.

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:28 am
by CaptHayfever
Their hardware prices are never that bad, but their game prices just never go down anymore except for a handful of "Nintendo Selects" or really-battered used copies (or shovelware that nobody wanted in the first place).

(I know this doesn't quite fit the theme of the category. I'm just poor & want a copy of New SMBU/New Luigi U for a price less than 6 months of trash pickup service.)

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:44 pm
by ScottyMcGee
[QUOTE="I am nobody, post: 1635874, member: 34539"]The only thing that's really bothering me right now is that Mario Kart needs to decide if it's a silly party game or a racing game. If it's the former, stop asking me to do everything perfectly. If it's the latter, let me turn AI cheating and items off. It's good enough at what it does to be either, but no game can be both at the same time.

Mario Kart has gone the way of The Fast and Furious. It becomes less and less racing and more just CGI explosive fest. I don't really complain about it though. It's stupid but I love it.

I haven't been interested in where Fire Emblem has gone. Its waifu factor went off the charts with Fates. I was able to handle it in Awakening but I haven't touched Fates in so long because honestly there's so much relationship **** that actually becomes important gameplay-wise that it derails from the battlefield strategy aspect - which is, you know, the main aspect of Fire Emblem.

I still replay the first Fire Emblem for GBA because it's got that relationship factor you can still gush over but the main point of the game is battlefield strategy.

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:52 pm
by I am nobody
As undeniably dreadful as the writing in that series is, that aspect is all that really sets it apart for me, honestly. I can enjoy the battle system, but it's so reliant on overwhelming enemy numbers, inferior player positions, and sudden spawn-in to create difficulty that I can't see myself going for it over another Devil Survivor or XCOM playthrough if that's all it had going for it.

I'm not sure why the almost perfectly consistently undelivered promise of cool second generation characters is enough to make me deal with the rest of it, but it is.

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:28 pm
by Apollo the Just
I'm a Fake Geek ^TM and I haven't played Breath of the Wild yet, largely because I'm still waiting for people to stop talking about it so I can play it at my own pace rather than getting caught up in everyone else's... but one reason my initial hype for it died down enough for me to not want to pick it up at launch anymore was that I also felt like it was getting too anime. And this is coming from someone who likes Skyward Sword (although it isn't my favorite installment). Like, I actually watched the ending sequence on accident, and it really felt like I was watching not just an anime, but specifically a bad dub of one. I will literally never get over the decision to have voice acting in Zelda - I really liked what previous installments did, where voice *clips* were supplied to inform the voice of a character but didn't define their attitude or intonation - and if the character types are going to be obviously anime, we might as well get the option to hear the Japanese voices because dub voices of anime tropes always, always sound forced. Ugh, what a disaster. It's enough to make me want to play with the volume off which is a tragedy because the OST is so good.

Also, I was really hoping for it to be a Zelda game with Skyrim elements, but the more I see of it the more it looks like a Skyrim game with Zelda elements. I dunno. I really should play the game before bitching about it (so I'm sorry because I know it's **** to hear someone whine about a game they haven't even bothered playing) -- and I really fully intend to, but there are so many things about it that make me less excited for it than I was before... which is a shame because I was SO excited for it when we first saw elements of it. Anyway. Wehhhhh.

I was incredibly pissy about the direction Persona 4 went (specifically the way it shamelessly copy-pasted half of 3's gameplay without any of the thematic justification for it), but blessedly it looks like Persona 5 is un-doing a lot of that damage so I can breathe easy again. Also that isn't Nintendo so moving on.

I didn't know how to put into words exactly what I liked less about X/Y (and potentially Sun/Moon) as opposed to previous installments, but X-3 totally hit the nail on the head. I know a lot of people liked your Group Of Friends in X/Y and I do think it was a cute idea, but it completely failed to give me the same feeling of independence the other gens had. I do like re-encountering NPCs, and I think Platinum strikes a really good balance of being on your own vs. encountering your friends and rival so that the NPCs are interesting and involved, but it's also YOUR adventure. Maybe I'm wrong here and the two are very similar, but I distinctly remember feeling in X like I was adventuring with a party of pre-established "friends" I was supposed to care about but didn't really, rather than encountering NPCs here and there and building a dynamic/relationship with them during the game instead.

Can't comment on Sun/Moon bc I still haven't beaten Moon yet either.

anyway im sure there is more i want to complain about but ill stop here for now

e: OH, I also really miss early Mario Party games. I miss how dynamic the boards were and how you could easily lose to computers in minigames if you weren't on your ****. I get that they also probably caused a lot of controller damage which is why they got easier over time, but in more recent installments it's impossible to lose against computers. The only saving grace of recent Mario Party is the bowser feature in 10, which when played together with friends is SO MUCH FUN it almost makes up for everything else. Also wHY WAS 2 THE ONLY INSTALLMENT TO DO COSTUMES???? COME ONNN


Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:39 pm
by I am nobody
Speaking as someone who liked Skyrim and not Breath of the Wild, I don't think there's much of the former in the latter beyond being an open world. Maybe there's more there than I noticed and it was just drowned out by how thoroughly I hate the survival mechanics, but it honestly felt more like Don't Starve at best and one of the billion identical Steam survival games with a Zelda skin. Someone who hates Skyrim probably won't like BotW, but from my perspective it seemed like you had to either at least have a tolerance for Steam survival mechanics or get enough out of the license to ignore them in order to actually enjoy the game. Given the popularity of those games and BotW, that's apparently an incredible percentage of people.

I loved X and Moon, but I also 100% agree with everything that's been said here. They've been trying since Wally in RSE, but IMO they've yet to make a single "friend" character that doesn't actively detract from every scene they're involved in. Hau was the worst of the lot - his character doesn't go much beyond "is a bit of an idiot", but he gets a ridiculous number of lines and is repeatedly challenging the player to fights that are almost impossible to lose.

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:48 pm
by Apollo the Just
^ You're right, maybe Skyrim isn't the best word for it. It's the survival mechanics I think I'm mostly put off by.

I actually do like Wally in RSE, and I also like the more friendly rival characters (although having a douchey rival again would be a welcome change at this point), but when it turns into "you're part of a big group of Friends that are CONSTANTLY THERE IN YOUR ADVENTURE" that it becomes noticeable imo. Or maybe it's not even that noticeable but it changes the feeling a bit. I loved all the games I've played too, but I do miss having that sense of more independence.

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:19 pm
by X-3
I was irked by Zelda's direction WW-SS but LBW and BotW made me regain faith.

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:25 pm
by DarkZero
so i wouldn't say i'm "irked" about this but i do miss metal mario's design from the n64 era. his textures generally had some cool colorful shading effects and he also didn't have a face as a result of mario's face being textures at the time. so he looked cool and mysterious which made him foreboding in super smash bros.

now he's just "mario but silver" which isn't quite as interesting

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:49 pm
by Marilink
speaking of Pokemon, I want a real rival again. I liked Hau as a character, but I want to hate a rival like the old days.

AJ, I think you're psyching yourself out about BotW. The voice acting is very minimal, and if you watched the ending sequence, you watched basically the weakest part of the whole game. (Which itself is a little disappointing, but it wasn't so bad as to ruin the fantastic hours I had with the game.)

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 am
by е и ժ е я
^ The voice acting language is now optional, AFAIK, that's been patched. I have the option to switch to Japanese and a few others. It might be just that I have the PAL version of the game, but the system isn't supposed to be region locked so you can just get that one instead if you care.

And yeah, the story is in the world. There's a lot more NPCs to meet and learn about the history and so on, and the mechanics are challenging at first but once you get to grips it's just good game design. If you just spend a little while grabbing all the apples in Hateno and baking them to sell in bulk, you'll never want for cash and therefore you can basically just buy your way through making the dishes, etc. Beedle is ominously present at every stable, and there's someone to buy/sell with at every town and sometimes wandering the roads, etc.

The only thing with a steep curve at first is really the weapons, etc, and they're all cheap crap when you start the game by way of being rusting for 100 years or whatever. The weapons have a high turnover rate which is actually good in the sense that you then get to experience all of the variants of the mechanics. I've played other games where I basically just always stuck with the best weapon forever and repaired it occasionally, and it gets old fast. Since the weapons can be picked up and used on the fly, you could just bash a guy's hand, pick up his boomerang or spear, etc, and chuck it at his face while he scrambles to replace it. Adapting to the sense that so many of them are disposable really opens up new ways to play with the engine.

Mostly, I've just really enjoyed experiencing the new world locations and exploring its farthest reaches, and nearly every one of the shrines represents an interesting detour into physics puzzles which gives you a change of pace overall when you get around to it. I did think the English VA was subpar at best, but it's actually very rare even while on, and the individual characters the world over do have the usual sort of little voice clips.

And let me just say how much I really appreciate that none of the NPCs felt copy-pasted as they tend to do in other open world games.

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:14 pm
by Jesus
One thing I am happy about changing in the Nintendo universe is the end to the production of games that nobody really cared about at all. This included titles like Stone Cold Creamery ice cream game (whatever that was) and Ninjabread Man. I remember seeing a NinjaBreadMan copy titled Anubis II and it was 49.99! It was a response ninjabreadman lol. Also, nobody wants to get Tonka Trucks video game or another obscure generic platformer either.

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:49 pm
by I am nobody
You've got Apple, Google, and Steam to thank for that, not Nintendo. Other platforms sold better and were easier to make shovelware for after the Wii.

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:21 pm
by X-3
NBM and Anubis II were made by the same company and are basically the same game with slightly different assets. Other clone games they made include Trixie in Toyland, Rock 'N' Roll Adventures and Yoshi's New Island.

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:57 pm
by Jesus
^I'm aware. That's why I'm surprised they were allowed dev kits. The amount of crappy games on the Wii was unimaginable. Even Final Fantasy Crystal bearers was bad.