Groundbreaking games that haven't aged well.

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#61

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:46 am

Yeah, I didn't finish MGS4 either. I hardly played it at all past the opening sequence, actually. I just watched my friend play through it. It ruined a lot for me, such as Ocelot just being nuts instead of actually being Liquid (despite his voice literally being Liquid's in MGS2). I didn't care for them bringing Big Boss back from the dead, and as I mentioned, I am on the fence about Raiden's fate. I dunno. It didn't do it for me.

MGSV's open world doesn't seem necessary, I don't see how it is a benefit to the series. It's just the "bigger=better" mentality. I'd rather have a concentrated experience than a big hot mess of things to do and places to go. That's just my personal opinion, though, and everyone else seems pumped for MGSV so that's good for them. Honestly, I'm such a Hayter fanboy that I doubt I'd enjoy the game no matter how good it is without him voicing Snake, or at least Doyle doing it. Sutherland is just Kojima pretending he's in Hollywood.

As a side note, I've always wanted to get into Splinter Cell. I have a bit of a bias against non-Japanese games sometimes, the characters don't seem interesting to me, but like you mentioned, I heard it has excellent stealth. Maybe I will give it a shot.

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#62

Post by ScottyMcGee » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:29 am

whoa whoa whoa wowie whoa whoa all this MGS talk omgwtfbbqsauce I need to get in on this

The Cobras were cool and silly at the same time. Well, okay, only The Pain was silly - becuase I mean, come on, bees? It's true that they weren't really developed but they served as metaphors for war and Snake had to find an emotion into battle. They were static characters that Snake had to hurdle. He was able to get through all of them. Pain. Fear. Fury. Sorrow. And the End. Ultimately he killed Joy. This leaves him with Guilt. Guilt was ultimately the emotion he brought into battle.

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1545159, member: 18119"]

I think I am pretty much alone in this but I didn't care for fighting The Boss. I didn't care for her as a character, really, just like the majority of the cast.
[/QUOTE]

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The Boss was literally the most interesting character in MGS3. She is the driving point for Snake in this game, ultimately the driving point for the entire plot really. My friends and I always imagined an MGS game solely about The Boss and the formation of the Cobras during WWII. That would be awesome as sh*t.


I will say that MGS4 kind of felt like it ruined things. It's probably my least favorite MGS game. At first it's brilliant and then after a while of digesting it you realize they kind of did ruin things. Kojima just can't let go of the whole "everything is pulled by strings." Just give Snake his time to shine solely from his own badassery. Please? After MGS2 Snake was established as being in his prime - working outside of the government and the law and serving to make the world a better place. Then in MGS4 he reverted back to his grumpy MGS1 phase, as if none of the development after MGS1 even mattered. I guess because he got old through accelerated aging but. . but. . ugh. It kills me that we never really fully experience Solid Snake in his prime in the glorious graphics we have today.

I felt like they brought back Big Boss just to find a way to render him in PS3 graphics for the first time. You know what I mean? They could have figured out another plot rather than shoehorn some secret backstory that spanned most of the series. I really like though that Big Boss represented the old world and Solid Snake the new world and Big Boss was all like "you're free now" BUT it's still ruined becuase Solid Snake is going to die in like a month anyway so what is he gonna do now? Go to Sunnyside Retirementville? Go have an ice cream? Lay on the beach? Veg out in front of the TV? He's OLD TOO. HE CAN'T DO SH*T. It felt weird and unbalanced.

MGS2 was actually my favorite game for a while, then MGS1. My only complaint about the series as a whole is the tendency to explain the plot through dialogue rather than action. The same problem can occur in writing, when you just take a massive infodump on the reader expecting them to remember all this.
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#63

Post by Swordmaster Link » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:32 am

The way I've always seen it is that Kojima seems to care far more about the themes that are explored in the series (loyalty, passing down/exchange of culture via genes and/or language, etc.) rather than the actual plot itself...I mean there have been retcons galore, and I'm ok with that because the ideas he explores are so extremely interesting to me. I mean, even before all of the crazy plot contrivances...the plots of MG2 and MGS are pretty much the same, but there are differences in the themes being fleshed out. Same goes for MGS to MGS2 but that is for reasons made clear eventually.

I think people for some reason expect the plot to be more grounded and cohesive because, on the surface, these games appear to be the type that would demand that (sprawling, action-oriented military series that spans several decades)...but Kojima plays with the idea that, at the end of the day, they are video games and he embraces the silliness/imaginative qualities that come along with that, while still giving us that cinematic quality. Zelda is the same way, to a lesser degree - at a certain point, do we really care about the plot as far as how everything should neatly fit together?

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#64

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:53 pm

[QUOTE="ScottyMcGee, post: 1545270, member: 31048"]The Cobras were cool and silly at the same time. Well, okay, only The Pain was silly - becuase I mean, come on, bees? It's true that they weren't really developed but they served as metaphors for war and Snake had to find an emotion into battle. They were static characters that Snake had to hurdle. He was able to get through all of them. Pain. Fear. Fury. Sorrow. And the End. Ultimately he killed Joy. This leaves him with Guilt. Guilt was ultimately the emotion he brought into battle.[/quote]

I'm not saying they didn't do their job as themes, but that's more of what they are than characters and that isn't how MGS1 and MGS2 were. There was build up to fighting with Vulcan Raven, and Sniper Wolf's death meant something. Fortune was fun character although a bit too melodramatic for my taste (which Ocelot mocks) and Fatman even had a good backstory that tied in with Stillman, plus he was a cool wild card among the villains which made him more interesting.

And then there's MGS3 and it dropped that for the most part, IMO.

[quote="ScottyMcGee]The Boss was literally the most interesting character in MGS3. She is the driving point for Snake in this game"]

I didn't like her and I didn't like that version of Snake, either. Snake was always whining about The Boss, getting his ass kicked by her, and literally crying (people cry, I get it, but the Snake I am used to fights Cyborg Ninja with his bare hands, and fights through waves of Russian military all on his own, so that's a big step down). And The Boss? Just some generic tough girl patriot who has a confusing relationship with Snake. Maybe she wasn't a bad character but she didn't interest me. I'll take Meryl or Olga any day over her.

[quote="ScottyMcGee]I will say that MGS4 kind of felt like it ruined things. It's probably my least favorite MGS game. At first it's brilliant and then after a while of digesting it you realize they kind of did ruin things. Kojima just can't let go of the whole "]

MGS4 is like half of a good game mixed with half a bad game, that's the easiest, most accurate way I can describe it. If it were remade in the MGS2 engine with MGSV graphics, reverted back to stealth focused gamepay, and changed the retcons, it would be okay.

I agree, they kinda pooped on Snake's character development.[DOUBLEPOST=1437094398,1437094158][/DOUBLEPOST][quote="Swordmaster Link]Zelda is the same way"]

I know I do. I'm a real nerd for canon and I hate that Kojima flat out stated he might screw with it in MGSV. Just pile that on top of the other issues with the game I have and I'm just done with MGS as a series (I still want remakes, Metal Gear Acid 3, and such, but the main series is dead to me).

Oh yeah, I also can't wait for that MGS movie, actually. Is that still happening?

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#65

Post by ScottyMcGee » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:31 am

Let's get back on point.

I recall playing Virtua Fighter in the arcades. The first 3D fighting game.

I remember being like "Wow, cool!" as a kid

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and now

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#66

Post by Kil'jaeden » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:35 pm

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1545376, member: 18119"]I know I do. I'm a real nerd for canon and I hate that Kojima flat out stated he might screw with it in MGSV. Just pile that on top of the other issues with the game I have and I'm just done with MGS as a series (I still want remakes, Metal Gear Acid 3, and such, but the main series is dead to me).

Oh yeah, I also can't wait for that MGS movie, actually. Is that still happening?[/QUOTE]

They made 4 Metal Gear movies. Metal Gear Solid 1, 2, ,3 and 4 actually. I question the need for a movie when your last two games have enough cutscene time to literally make several movies.

Metal Gear Solid V makes it more convoluted? I don't know how that is possible. Maybe it turns out that all of the Solid games were actually Big Boss dreaming while in his coma before Metal Gear Solid V starts. It opens up with the final fight and last scene of MSGIV, and then Big Boss just says "What a strange dream" and wakes up. Or maybe it turns out that the Boss is alive and is the true driving force behind all the the insanity of the plot, including all the betrayals and conflicting groups. Or maybe the Patriots are actually a conspiracy to hide the true enemy: aliens. It is fearful to think of what screwing with the canon of Metal Gear could result in.


Shogun: Total War and Medieval: Total War. Those are from back at the turn of the century, and they were a big change in RTS type games at the time. They combined a kind of grand strategy game with a tactical game. Now they are dated, to say the least. It is hard to tell what you are even moving around most of the time, and they suffer from balance issues. Another issue is control flaws.
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#67

Post by Sim Kid » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:41 pm

In the wake of the recent legit release of it... EarthBound Beginnings.

Whether or not you consider it to be that groundbreaking is up to you entirely - you can argue that it is, but you can also argue that it was still playing it safe in many ways. The plot is what's groundbreaking if you ask me - but the gameplay, not quite. It's pretty shamelessly a 1980s RPG - because admit it, both J and W RPGs did this in the day and some of them still do it now. The game is considered "hard", but it's not so much hard because you don't know what you're doing, it's hard because you have to pretty much pause the plot and run around to level up and collect better weapons, which isn't so much difficult as it is time-consuming. On top of that, new party members join at level one... so you'll have to spend a lot of time babying them around Magicant.

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#68

Post by Booyakasha » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:47 am

I'd kind of like to revisit some of my Commodore64 games. Like, 'Movie Monster', 'Jumpman Junior', 'Conan: Dawn of Volta', and-----hey-----'Trailblazer'! I'd like to see how well they hold up. But I mislaid some crucial cables, and like who knows if the dingdong 64 would work these days even if I hadn't. (Possibly it would--------everything's still in its boxes. Not like I just threw everything in a cardboard box and left in an unheated storage unit fifteen years back.)
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#69

Post by LOOT » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:33 am

Speaking of MGS4, I'm actually pretty impressed when they updated it to "Trophy Edition" because IT DOES MORE THAN ADD BLOODY TROPHIES. I mean besides the removal of Metal Gear Online because that is totally the epitome of online gaming

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#70

Post by Daos » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:01 am

No one has mentioned The Elder Scrolls: Arena yet?

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#71

Post by е и ժ е я » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:26 am

[QUOTE="Daos, post: 1552226, member: 24674"]No one has mentioned The Elder Scrolls: Arena yet?

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But it wasn't really groundbreaking so nyah.
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