First Presidential Press Conference Only to Release Lies, More to Come

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Post by е и ժ е я » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:45 am

Try not to cite a trend in a year that's barely begun, it's not a good way to get an accurate picture. I wouldn't be surprised if unrest has increased since Trump won the electoral college, but lost the popular vote. There is obviously a divide that this un-collaborative system is exacerbating terribly. If Trump and Republicans care about keeping the peace, they should move more carefully IMO. Their brash action is creating more crime than it can ever prevent or for which it was designed to prevent.
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Post by Bad Dragonite » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:17 am

Well yeah that's why I said it's a very VERY small sample, but yeah he said "It's on a rise" then so far it's up from 19 murders to 33.

I don't like how you try to blame Trump's election for the murders other people commit, there's not any evidence that that caused more murders to occur.
Either way though, the idea that that is what caused the rise is actually kind of contrary to these stats.

See in the time between 11/07 and 12/04 directly during and after the election the rates dropped by 10% and total violent crime dropped by 4% when compared to the last 28 day period.

Then 11/14 to 12/11 there were two more murders than the last 28 day period making homicides go up by 12% but overall vioent crime was still -3%
Then 11/21 to 12/18 when compared to the previous 28 day period the homicide rate went down by 25% and violent crime went down by 6%
Considering how close to the election that was if that was the cause you would expect to see a huge spike in that time, instead it was generally down.


Then the last part of the month for that year reported was 11/28 to 12/25 the homicide rate went up by 6% - going up by 1 murder. Overall violent crime was down by 6 percent again though.



Now here we go, the article you provided is dated at January 26th
looking at that area of time in the stats when comparing 1/02 to 1/29 when compared to the previous 28 day period of 12/05 to 1/01 the homicide rate went up by 2,300% from 1 murder to 29 and the overall violent crime rate went UP by 2%.
but the main number here is the year comparison it was up 56% from last year, from 16 to 25.

Now then with all that info in mind, could it be possible that Trump was mainly speaking about January's stats? If that's the case then he wasn't wrong or dishonest. It was having a HUGE surge in violent crime and murder especially when given that context.

Yes overall over the past years the murder rate has gone down compared to past decades (though last year overall it went up by 3%) , but that's a general trend all around the US anyway. Either way Philly is definitely having a big violent spike ad it did go up overall. So Id say that more or less clears him on that statement. I think so anyway.
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Post by е и ժ е я » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:31 am

That's an interesting point. I would definitely say that my perception may be colored by a perceived possible correlation between crime and the election overall, rather than being a post-election high. I would not directly attribute the crimes people commit to something so tangentially related, but rather it is a factor of unstable people perceiving threats and hostility with increasing frequency, causing rationalisation of psychotic behavior and execution on those impulses, and creating a feedback loop of rising malcontent in general. I did not realise you were talking specifically about the rate of murder in a single city, I was thinking to the nation-wide demonstrations and conflicts which have continued to appear as the public reacts to the controversial haste and actions of the Presidency. People are not going to settle down unless the government returns to normalcy.

Percentages early in the year are, again, not even close to a stable data set. If two murders drives the rate of violent crime up so drastically but none happen the rest of the year, it's just a matter of the non-linear nature. Stats for a single month are only a single point in a larger set which make up the measured rate. They're not to be used in a predictive fashion and they don't indicate a trend when alone.
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Post by Bad Dragonite » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:37 am

^True but he wasn't being dishonest, especially if he was mainly referring to last years overall increase and just the month's. Certainly it's a smaller sample size, but still, not incorrect.

Maybe he'll change his tune if the stats get better.

Edit: Still comparing this January to last though isn't a small amount from 19 to 31 is a pretty big leap for a direct comparison. Maybe it'll even out though.
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Post by е и ժ е я » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:43 am

[QUOTE="Bad Dragonite, post: 1621091, member: 32425"]^True but he wasn't being dishonest, especially if he was mainly referring to last years overall increase and just the month's. Certainly it's a smaller sample size, but still, not incorrect.

Maybe he'll change his tune if the stats get better.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't indicate a trend, though. Taking data points out of the context of the overall sequence of events makes them irrelevant. Basing statements and calls for policy change on intentionally incomplete data doesn't make it not dishonest, it just makes it a lie for which they've planned an escape.

If I do my dusting on Fridays, and not the rest of the week, when the Friday comes around there is a 'significant spike' in dusting in the sandbox of 'the week' but not any significant difference globally.
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Post by X-3 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:31 pm

[QUOTE="My Potions Are Too Strong For You Traveller, post: 1621066, member: 25415"]
Islamic extremist terror attacks comprise a pathetic amount of terrorist action on US soil. Since the 70s, there have been 587 successful terrorist actions committed by 'pro-life' extremist Christians and others inside of the US. Islamic extremists have committed 21 terror attacks on US soil since. None of them were Syrian refugees. Your rationalisations are so deeply buried in this ******** that this pedantry is worth absolutely nothing to the greater argument.[/QUOTE]

On a related note...

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Post by Bad Dragonite » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:47 pm

^Yeah that's **** up, if that canadian dude is convicted he should serve his time. From what I know about him he was bullied alot too so he may have been mentally ill. Still that's **** man.

That reminds me, AI do you have the source for the numbers in the quote he just used?
I'd like to take a look at it.
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Post by е и ժ е я » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:39 am

[QUOTE="Bad Dragonite, post: 1621134, member: 32425"]That reminds me, AI do you have the source for the numbers in the quote he just used?
I'd like to take a look at it.[/QUOTE]
I initially verified this when I saw a similar quote, it has been some time since. Primary source for the stats on anti-abortion crime/terrorism (research site https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/) is down/inaccessible right now. I can only find alternative sources with incomplete data as of now. Regarding those:

I have not checked all of the figures in this, it is not the original source. Mentions "over 300 attacks" circa 2003 and prior during opening statements: http://users.nber.org/~jacobson/JacobsonRoyer6.2.10.pdf

An incomplete table of attacks/terror threats which lists 1040 entries/incidence, entries excluding "Anthrax Attack Letters" are 386, likely contains overlap but overtly missing data regarding "Extreme Violence" prior to 1997, likely gaps in other categories. Some entries, such as the first entry in "Extreme Violence", actually mention multiple attacks carried out by a single individual which may be seen as separate incidence. https://prochoice.org/education-and-adv ... d-history/


The US government has strong internal resistance to labeling attacks on clinics and doctors intended to impose terror as terrorist attacks. Anti-Abortion politics are very choosy and many don't want to draw attention. Most politically-motivated assassinations are typically considered terrorist (ie John Wilkes Boothe) yet this is a blind spot to the American public.

Regarding Islamic-motivated terrorism, the numbers vary greatly, but the subject is more popular and as such there is a wide range of differing opinions. While many attacks can be attributed to Islamic extremism, sources often disagree on the legitimacy or core motivation of such attacks. It would not be practical to compare instances such as attacks on individuals conducted based on religious inspiration as unlike anti-abortion extremists, such attacks may not be intended to inspire terror in a profession and a public reaction. Obviously we can't begin to detail the list of murders conducted by those in any religion, such data is both not collected and not verifiable, although religion-imitative delusion is a classic inspiration for action among the mentally vulnerable.

The wikipedia table of global verified Islamic extremist attacks is clearly incomplete, it only contains 13 entries for actions inside US last I checked. The list of events at "http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html" details 45 events, a few of which are only suggested (not verified) to have been Islamic extremism. One such entry was made regarding the currently investigated murder of a Transit authority by a supposed home-grown American radical Muslim who was actually kicked out of Mosque for his rhetoric, and had served in the US military. The numbers I posted were regarding the instance of such events not perpetrated by US citizens but by foreigners (Re: the immigration/travel ban), and also only includes "successful" attacks - not events such as the incompetent shoe bomber - and the number reflects that. Apologies to all that I neglected to mention as much, I had intended to yet did not notice the absence of that explanation until reviewing my words prior to making this post.

I've already spent quite a bit of time chasing down resources, so please understand that while this could be more thorough I have to get on with my day.
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Post by Bad Dragonite » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am

Cool, thanks I appreciate it, I'll go through that when I get a chance.


Sort of a tangent, but I just thought about this. I've been hearing alot of people question why we didn't put Saudi Arabia on a ban list (I really wish we could, it's wretched hive of scum and villainy, but we get alot of our oil from there) , and alot of those same people are also against offshore drilling for oil, drilling here in the US and the keystone pipeline. I'd like to ask anyone with that opinion if they could explain what we should do about energy at that point.
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Post by е и ժ е я » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:09 am

[QUOTE="Bad Dragonite, post: 1621188, member: 32425"] I'd like to ask anyone with that opinion if they could explain what we should do about energy at that point.[/QUOTE]
In all honesty, there's a huge amount of solutions available already. The only hurdle is energy storage, not production. Our current system is based on inert energy becoming active, not active energy being made inert and then active again. It's really just a matter of technology and someone with the money enough to put together a networked solution. Wind farms, Solar, and Wave farms all have sufficient output. This is one of the reasons why government subsidy and sponsorship are so important. We've got 'conservatives' with embedded interests making ridiculous arguments like "If we switch to wind, we will run out of wind" with the few options which dictate that they're either total morons, know they're full of **** and are hoping the negativity is what will be remembered rather than the rationale, or my personal favorite, both.
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Post by Bad Dragonite » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:19 am

Well yeah but we don't know how long that'll take exactly. I think most people want to get off of fossil fuels, but I mean until that point really because until we get there from what I know we put more energy into it than we get back out. I'm thinking they want to get the keystone pipeline done then they will try and cut ties with Saudi Arabia (hopefully) and we won't have to depend on trading oil from Russia either.

Honestly I think until the technology catches up keystone is our best bet, personally.

That said, I there is another proposal...

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Post by е и ժ е я » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:24 am

^I'll allow that post since it's both relevant and not aggressive, but keep in mind that meme posts are generally not allowed in PPR for the sake of keeping the peace. Mostly because they're otherwise used to mock others.
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Post by е и ժ е я » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:32 pm

The President has deigned to share some more alternatives to reality. He's actually somehow getting more ridiculous.
President Trump on Monday said that news outlets are covering up terrorist attacks without citing any evidence that supports that claim.

He made the comment in a speech to U.S. servicemembers at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida after receiving a briefing and eating lunch with troops...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claim ... d=34185702

I suppose now we can break out the talk of tinfoil hats.
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:38 pm

He's the president, he is privy to information others aren't. I don't see the problem here.

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Post by Bad Dragonite » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:42 pm

Well considering most mainstream outlets won't even label the Berkeley riots as riots and instead painted Milo as a white supremacist Right wing extremist that the students were supposedly standing up to and rarely if ever mention violence I'd say he's not really being too hyperbolic here. The riot was terrorism by definition. While I'm not sure about covering it up they're definitely kinda just shrugging it off.
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Post by X-3 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:53 pm

No, he's being hyperbolic. Especially when Conway is off making up terrorist attacks.

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Post by Bad Dragonite » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:34 pm

I'm listening to the speech now, he mentions 9/11, Boston, Orlando, and San Bernadino then mentions Europe, citing terrorist attacks in Paris and Nice in France. Then states it's happening all over Europe, then states it has gotten to a point where it's not being reported, and he says in many cases the "dishonest press" doesn't want to report it. Which is honestly kinda true, at least on the first point, since there are many Islamic terrorist attacks we simply don't hear about here in the states. An though I don't regularly follow European news sources from what I know German news generally tends to have an agenda and tries to cover for Islamic terrorism and migrant crimes for the administration (The mass sexual assaults in Cologne n New Years 2015/2016 for example)
So no, he's not really being hyperbolic. He doesn't say they're actively covering it up, he say's they don't want to report on it (like they didn't want to report on Berkeley). Besides all that, this wasn't the main point of the speech so I doubt he'd care to sit down and give a huge presentation of examples on this.

^From what I know the phrase "Bowling Green Massacre " was just her misspeaking though I don't know that I buy that claim. No doubt it's a crooked name she's trying to pin onto the attacks that were carried out on US troops by two Muslim refugees who used to live in Bowling Green.
That said I think one really important issue we need to point out here though is that there were two Islamic refugees living in Bowling Green who did turn out to be terrorists, did use IEDs against US Soldiers, did send money and equipment from the States to AQI. Honestly I think 40 years in prison and a lifelong surveillance after is a soft punishment. The only reason they got that was because they cooperated. Here's the rub, they were refugees, living in America's heartland. That's kind of a big deal. Even if her name for the incident was either misleading or misspoken, it could just be she was trying to bring attention to it, which she succeeded in.
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Post by X-3 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:52 am

She was misspeaking in the sense that she was purposefully lying through her teeth. There was no massacre and she's done this at least twice.

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Post by CaptHayfever » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:53 am

[QUOTE="Bad Dragonite, post: 1621337, member: 32425"]Milo as a white supremacist Right wing extremist[/QUOTE] If he isn't one, then he's pretending to be one.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Post by Bad Dragonite » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:00 am

[QUOTE="CaptHayfever, post: 1621354, member: 25169"]If he isn't one, then he's pretending to be one.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"[/QUOTE]
The burden of proof is upon you. But since noone can ever actually prove he is one I'll just go ahead and disprove you here.

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In fact there's another video I can't post here because he says a dirty word starting with an "F" that even VGF just finds too distasteful even if it's spoken by a gay man and even if it's a proper title for his tour about free speech and he only says it one time. I know because I've had threads deleted before for similar videos. So since I can't link it I'll just say it's on Milo's own channel and it's called "
MILO OBLITERATES Student Who Called Him A "White Supremacist""


He speaks about how a prominent hub, if not the prominent hub of white supremacy completely hates him and are boycotting Breitbart because they loathe him so much.

So please please, stop with your baseless accusations for the sake of trying to discredit your political opponents. It's that BS that led to the riots in the first place.
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