The UC Berkeley Riots

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The UC Berkeley Riots

#1

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:47 pm

You got to love the irony in a bunch of people calling their opposition a nazi then using violence to stop the gay jewish man who really REALLY loves black people from speaking on his own ideas.
Though the same can be said of the people who called him a nazi and burned his book.
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I have no doubt some of you here will try and make excuses for this, I've already had plenty of arguments with people over it. So go ahead, pick your party line.

This is by definition terrorism pure and simple, and the taboo on political violence is lost, then all discussion ceases.
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#2

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:55 pm

I'm going to link to several posts on Twitter of images and videos from last night.

https://twitter.com/neontaster/status/8 ... 1296872448
https://twitter.com/jakeshieldsajj/stat ... 4273219584
https://twitter.com/PhillyD/status/826986245939040256
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/827034626187157504
https://twitter.com/almostjingo/status/ ... 6749164544
https://twitter.com/janeygak/status/826998516144697344

Rocks and roman candles were thrown both at the college and police, windows smashed, cars torched, people beaten and maced, ATMs and private property smashed, fires lit. Just chaos.
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#3

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:03 pm

Perhaps the worst part of this is that it failed in every sense of the word.

They did all this to stop Milo from speaking, but now he's gone from speaking to a room full of people that already made up their minds to the entire country that may very well start seeing things his way. Countries that never heard about Milo are now hearing all about him. He's got a bigger audience then ever and Berkeley is getting raked over the coals massively for what happened. People aren't okay with this.

So good job on that. Hopefully this will be a lesson on how preemptive violence is never okay.

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#4

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:10 pm

[QUOTE="The Amazing Tazy Ten, post: 1620874, member: 19345"]

They did all this to stop Milo from speaking, but now he's gone from speaking to a room full of people that already made up their minds .[/QUOTE]
Well see that's not entirely true plenty of people who disagree but want to have actual discussion or even just hear the other side go to these events. They want to encourage healthy discussion. So it's very likely they attacked someone who agrees with them in all of this.

One of the main points of his whole tour is to encourage discussion.
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#5

Post by X-3 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:14 pm

People like Milo or Spencer have never been interested in "healthy discussion." Their interest is to spread hate speech as wide as they can. Unfortunately, Americans are perfectly willing to normalize and coddle it.

I don't expect this to be the last wild, out-of-control left-wing riot over the next 4 8 years. I can only hope that proper leadership emerges among the left to properly control demonstrations and protest, otherwise we'll have more utterly regrettable instances like this.

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#6

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:19 pm

Freedom of speech is there to protect less popular opinions, no matter how much you disagree, everyone is allowed their opinions and to express them.

That said I don't see how you can even attempt to lump those two together. One is a white nationalist (the same way that Malcom X and Muhammad Ali were black nationalists) and the other simply isn't. Heck he's called out white supremacy as being wrong before.
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#7

Post by I am nobody » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:22 pm

Not sure what there is to defend here. Obviously people have a right to protest whatever, but that doesn't extend to rioting.

Uninteresting legality and morality of rioting aside, it's also moronic from the standpoint of trying to oppose his views. Breitbart isn't going to look at this and say "oh, no!" Californian university students don't like us! It's time to reassess our worldview!" They're going to run a story they possibly won't even need to spin to present you as intolerant opponents of free speech, and they're going to thrive off of the attention you've so kindly given them. Berkley could have paid for his speech to be broadcast nationwide in primetime and it still would've done less for him and Breitbart than this. If there's any way to make sure we get eight years of Trump, it's extremists on the left giving him free material with which to paint the opposition as hooligans opposed to fundamental rights in this country.

On an unrelated note, I'm not sure how one "really loves black people." Surely there are some, say Kony or al-Bashir, that he's not a fan of.

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#8

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:22 pm

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I'm fairly sure it's his plan to get violent reactions out of college students seeing how he tends to keep putting his hand in the fire. I can't blame him because it's working.

^^^ It's better to let them speak their idiocy out loud then take extremist methods to silence everyone. You give hate speech strength when you make valid one's bigoted fears. Violence is not the answer.

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#9

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:24 pm

But yeah, all those videos of him actually inviting talking with people on stage who disagree with him, totally not open discussion.[DOUBLEPOST=1486085069,1486084976][/DOUBLEPOST][QUOTE="I am nobody, post: 1620891, member: 34539"]
On an unrelated note, I'm not sure how one "really loves black people." Surely there are some, say Kony or al-Bashir, that he's not a fan of.[/QUOTE]
By really loves I mean most of his boyfriends have been black. Ha. xD
He's not a racist is my point.
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#10

Post by X-3 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:27 pm

[QUOTE="The Amazing Tazy Ten, post: 1620892, member: 19345"]
^^^ It's better to let them speak their idiocy out loud then take extremist methods to silence everyone. You give hate speech strength when you make valid one's bigoted fears. Violence is not the answer.[/QUOTE]

This is untrue. Letting them speak out and giving them a platform just increases their audience. The market of public opinions does not discriminate.

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#11

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:28 pm

[QUOTE="The Amazing Tazy Ten, post: 1620892, member: 19345"]We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I'm fairly sure it's his plan to get violent reactions out of college students seeing how he tends to keep putting his hand in the fire. I can't blame him because it's working.

^^^ It's better to let them speak their idiocy out loud then take extremist methods to silence everyone. You give hate speech strength when you make valid one's bigoted fears. Violence is not the answer.[/QUOTE]


He doesn't want violent reactions, I mean yeah "I totes love being in actual danger for my opinions". lol
Don't get me wrong he is a self described provocateur, but it isn't to get violent reactions, it may be to get people angry enough to argue with him for the lulz, but I severely doubt he wanted violence.
That said there's no doubt it will help him.
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#12

Post by I am nobody » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:30 pm

[QUOTE="Bad Dragonite, post: 1620893, member: 32425"]
By really loves I mean most of his boyfriends have been black. Ha. xD
He's not a racist is my point.[/QUOTE]

If he isn't a racist, their being black presumably wasn't part of his reasons for dating them. My point is that liking or disliking a group based on nothing other than their skin color is the literal definition of racism. "But I love black people!" may be a defense against accusations of being a white supremacist, but it's an admission to being a racist. Tired of hearing it.

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#13

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:32 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1620895, member: 27765"]This is untrue. Letting them speak out and giving them a platform just increases their audience. The market of public opinions does not discriminate.[/QUOTE]
If you discriminate and deplatform someone, at a college especially where free thought is supposed to be allowed and addressed critically, then the second someone in power decides your opinions are wrong, you'll be deplatformed as well.[DOUBLEPOST=1486085540,1486085449][/DOUBLEPOST][QUOTE="I am nobody, post: 1620897, member: 34539"]If he isn't a racist, their being black presumably wasn't part of his reasons for dating them. My point is that liking or disliking a group based on nothing other than their skin color is the literal definition of racism. "But I love black people!" may be a defense against accusations of being a white supremacist, but it's an admission to being a racist. Tired of hearing it.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't discriminate, he's dated other white men as well. lol He didn't date them BECAUSE they were black.
He isn't a racist either way though.
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#14

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:34 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1620895, member: 27765"]This is untrue. Letting them speak out and giving them a platform just increases their audience. The market of public opinions does not discriminate.[/QUOTE]

Violence makes hate speech grow faster and will draw in people that would have turned away in different circumstances. Given the two options I would rather let hate grow and suffocate itself in the light than have it choke me as I try to kill it in the darkness.

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#15

Post by X-3 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:44 pm

^It'd be great if that were true, but it just isn't. Hate speech has been given a multitude of platforms online. They've all grown significantly. The media is slowly normalizing it too. Violence, meanwhile, is the tool to silence opinions, speech and dissent. It's been used chillingly over the course of history, with perpetrators all over the political spectrum. It goes without saying that we should not resort to violence, but at the same time we cannot sit on its thumbs hoping things work out because we're nice and hearing people out. This is why countries have hate speech laws, that's why protests with proper leadership and guidance exist.

Oh, and this is the type of person Milo is.

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#16

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:56 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1620902, member: 27765"]^It'd be great if that were true, but it just isn't. Hate speech has been given a multitude of platforms online. They've all grown significantly. The media is slowly normalizing it too. Violence, meanwhile, is the tool to silence opinions and dissent. It goes without saying that we should not resort to violence, but at the same time society cannot sit on its thumbs hoping things work out because you're nice. This is why countries have hate speech laws.

Oh, and this is the type of person Milo is.[/QUOTE]

"We can't possibly have someone speak with an opposing opinion, they might have people who agree with them! We must SILENCE THIS DISSENT, DONT LET HIM SPEAK, BURN HIS BOOKS"


The college who openly has stated they disagree with him and forced the Republican club to pay for the extra security because they disagreed with him is trying to paint the Republican club members as people who personally attack people by having their names on display? So crazy. Even if they were going to do that, Milo wouldn't have been behind that. Either way I guess we'll never know because the rioters are afraid of other viewpoints and words.
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#17

Post by X-3 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:09 pm

Well, things got out of control far beyond what is acceptable, but I see nothing wrong with protest in general.

edit: according to the university, the violence was perpetuated by 150 guys in masks

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#18

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:18 pm

Image

I think this headline speaks volumes about CNN's leanings.
Nothing about the violence, just "Oh he's an extremist (Which he isn't) he tried to take on the college" when the college allowed him to speak there, and even if there are white supremacists being rallied under this, they are such small minority it's irrelevant, it completely ignores that the VIOLENCE AND CENSORSHIP is rallying just about everyone on the right. They never will call these riots riots, they will continue to call them "Protests" I can almost guarantee it.



^I'm fine with peaceful protests, I even defend protestors' rights when I completely disagree or even think their ideologies could be harmful, in fact most people on the right are strongly in support of freedom of speech, hence why this is such an outrage.
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#19

Post by е и ժ е я » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:27 pm

All videos longer than 10 minutes long must be accompanied by a thorough recap of the contents of the video in the post.

This means that Mods will have the right to action any posts/threads that do not comply. And a thorough recap will be considered as 'meaty' paragraphs explaining the contents of the video in question.

We have decided to implement this policy for the following reasons;
1. Mods are under obligation to view all videos in their forums, and sometimes they are unable to access videos on the network they are using (ie. workplace restrictions), and if the video is worth sharing by a member, it is worth their valuable time to create a recap.
2. And, sometimes, there are multiple videos that need viewing, and like everyone else, Mods have commitments outside of VGF and I need to be considerate of them and the time they devote to Moderating.
I'd never even heard of the guy before the past week, so please don't accuse me of taking sides here. I'm not familiar with his message, whatever it may be. If you would like to link the video again at some point, and it does not violate VGF's terms, please do so with a description of the points discussed, as description of the graphic content is moot regarding talking head videos. Sorry for any disappointment.
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#20

Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:44 pm

[MEDIA=youtube]4A2a-XZ_6Fw[/MEDIA]

Interview with Milo on Fox news (Shorter version) Going through his account on what happened then gives his opinions on what motivations the rioters have and the left in general.
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